Metagame STABmons

EV

Banned deucer.
By the way, you really shouldn't have voted; you haven't played this tier in a year and a half and it's a disservice to this tier for you to do anything other than abstain.
Fwiw, I offered to abstain from the vote. I've been re-added to the council without asking to be even when I thought it was clear I had resigned long ago, so :blobshrug:.
download (7).png


I was asked for my opinion, so I gave it. Don't @ me like this is all my fault please.
 
wishes is the true hero.

but in all seriousness, im not going beat down ev (lol i love him too much anyway)
there's more problems with this council/voting that pretty much speaks for it self.
im still demanding some kind of reasoning for ara no bans.
there's 2 checks that still lose. 2 checks that still lose.
can set up on every defensive mon and benefits from predicting the most. once it gets up a tg, its either ur team is 4/6 ded or its gg
this isnt healthy and seeing that the council wanted aero banned but not ara really just shouts WACK in every form.
aero and ara are different mons but the impact they have on the meta is THE SAME. aero even thou its dumb and broken, u can outplay it and work around it however it pressured teams way too much. ara is the basically the same, strong stabs and prio that can kill basically everything even resists.

both of these mons affect the meta the same way while ara does it on a much larger scale than aero. only difference between these mons are stats/sets. when i saw aero banned and not ara that really stabbed the community in the back, hows a mon that is clearly stronger and more restrictive than aero not banned while aero got the boot. and no fuck ur dtail av slowking
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Would just like to make an announcement that we will be redoing the previous suspect slate excluding Aerodactyl (ie it will remain banned) due to the previous feedback we have received from the previous decisions. EV has decided to not partake in this voting process and thus drampa's grandpa will be added to the council and slate as a result. Expect an announcement shortly.

Apologies for the inconveniences. Also note that these votes will not affect the ongoing OMPL games unless both players agree to play with the bans / unbans in place.
 
Would just like to make an announcement that we will be redoing the previous suspect slate excluding Aerodactyl (ie it will remain banned) due to the previous feedback we have received from the previous decisions. EV has decided to not partake in this voting process and thus drampa's grandpa will be added to the council and slate as a result. Expect an announcement shortly.

Apologies for the inconveniences. Also note that these votes will not affect the ongoing OMPL games unless both players agree to play with the bans / unbans in place.
Is there any reason STABmons isn't running a suspect test but is for some reason doing council votes? This is way too late into the gen to be doing quick bans (literally read its name...) on principle, and it's very clear from the past page that the inherent problems with quick bans are all rearing their ugly heads right now. You have a ladder half the time; I don't see any reason after the first council vote clearly failed that you're going for another.
 
A set I've had good results with:

Silvally @ Dark Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Power Trip
- Heal Bell / Amnesia
- Recover

Bulky sweeper designed to clean late game. 2 coils gives Power Trip the power of a STAB Pscyho Boost. Power Trip is the STAB - unlike Stored Power, nothing's immune to it. I prefer Heal Bell, as that lets you deal with status and act as a cleric but Amnesia is a solid option too to boost Special Defence and give Power Trip another 40 BP. Recover keeps Silvally healthy. I went with Dark Silvally as that's immune to Prankster shenanigans.
Why running Recover over Shore Up
 
Idk if ill be around in 3 weeks when ompl ends so I'll just make this post now:

https://pokepast.es/b24d8afa92eb7c5e - all of my ompl stab teams, used and unused

[hide = a few notes]
- The intended week 1 team was ultimately used week 6
- All teams are in descending order of week except for a very special set of teams
- S/o Catalystic for greatly assisting in building the week 2 team and for passing the week 5 G1 team for me to tweak
- S/o Jrdn for passing the week 6 team, a (albeit very different) version of the week 8 team for me to gradually tweak, and the melo set for W5G3 (unplayed). And also for helping me learn a meta that I havent really played since espeed and tapu lele bans
- Also s/o drphdbj for block mega alt idea
[/hide]

Pretty happy w how most of these turned out although some are more jank than others. I think theres a lot of really cool ideas in here that others should work w more, I dont think I ever went into a week this ompl with a standard boring team
Some of these (mainly specsbro) have good sample potential i think
 

drampa's grandpa

cannonball
is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Now that my team is officially eliminated from OMPL I thought I'd post some of the stuff I've been sitting on for the past several weeks.

I'm going to start off by discussing Araquanid.

First of all I'm going to reveal the best Araquanid set (patent pending).

Araquanid @ Metronome
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Steam Eruption
- Water Shuriken
- Heal Order / Sticky Web / Giga Drain / Toxic / Hidden Power Electric / Spider Web / whatever you want really

What's different about this set? It looks standard af right? It's the item! While Metronome lacks the instantaneous power on its moves of Mystic Water or the one time nuke of Z, Metronome becomes equally as powerful as Mystic Water on the second attack, and more powerful afterwards, and has none of the drawbacks of Waterium Z. Given that versus offensive builds Araquanid typically clicks Tail Glow and then Water Shuriken repeatedly this set builds up enough power to OHKO things it normally wouldn't be able to very quickly.

On to checks / counters!

Building over the past month or so I've seen how much of an influence it has on the teambuilding process. It's impossible not to consider it at pretty much every stage. Without adding one of a very few Pokemon capable of defensively countering it most teams just fold to it. However I've found some offensive counters that haven't really been part of the discussion thus far, and while I do not feel that they are sufficient to keep Araquanid from being broken, I do think their existence and roles should be acknowledged.


Salamence @ Choice Band
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Dragon Hammer
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang

The first counter is Salamence. Thanks to its resistance to Water it can survive almost anything Araquanid throws at it and OHKO back, even through a burn.

252 Atk Choice Band Salamence Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Araquanid: 644-758 (189.9 - 223.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band burned Salamence Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Araquanid: 322-379 (94.9 - 111.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Splash Plate Water Bubble Araquanid Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 158-186 (47.7 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
+3 252+ SpA Splash Plate Water Bubble Araquanid Water Shuriken (15 BP) (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 270-330 (81.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252+ SpA Splash Plate Water Bubble Araquanid Water Shuriken (15 BP) (4 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 216-264 (65.2 - 79.7%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

This set loves loves loves Magnezone support as otherwise it is walled to death by Celesteela (although Steela has fallen off recently). Barring Celesteela, not much actually switches into Salamence without first scouting the move it's locked into.

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Salamence Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 156-184 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Salamence Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 156-184 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Salamence Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 180-213 (51.1 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Salamence Dragon Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 156-184 (51.3 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 182-216 (51.4 - 61%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


Landorus-Therian is your biggest problem, as it can come in if it's at full health and burn you or simply wall you, and it can't be trapped like Celesteela. Scarf is an option over Band but you don't counter Araquanid as reliably, which is the primary point of running Salamence over Landorus-Therian or some other similar breaker. Dragon Dance Flyinium can produce similar results with the ability to set up and more staying power with Roost, but if you're running that you may as well run...


Dragonite @ Flyinium Z / Lum Berry / Weakness Policy
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Earthquake / Fire Punch / Extreme Speed / Substitute / whatever Dragonite has like 50 million moves

Essentially a bulkier but slower Salamence. Dragonite is really solid as a bulky set-up sweeper, and can of course
252 Atk Dragonite Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Araquanid: 674-794 (198.8 - 234.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Dragonite Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Araquanid: 426-504 (125.6 - 148.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Dragonite appreciates much of the same support as Salamence, although it plays rather differently.

Third mon!


Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 84 HP / 248 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer / Power Whip
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Stone Edge

Is this literally just the OU set with like one alternative move? Yes, yes it is. And to be fair, there are a couple things that Play Rough actually hits (Lati@s, Kommo-O, Salamence, and Dragonite) but unless you really struggle with those mons you're better off with running the standard set i m o (althought Kommo-O is tough to counter... hmmm....)

Anyway, Araquanid;
248+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Araquanid in Grassy Terrain: 513-604 (151.3 - 178.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
248+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Araquanid in Grassy Terrain: 322-379 (94.9 - 111.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
+3 252+ SpA Splash Plate Water Bubble Araquanid Water Shuriken (15 BP) (5 hits) vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 240-280 (79.4 - 92.7%) -- approx. 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ SpA Splash Plate Water Bubble Araquanid Steam Eruption vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 136-162 (45 - 53.6%) -- 88.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery

Tapu Bulu guess what, hates Celesteela and thus loves Magnezone support. It's a pretty ridiculous wallbreaker at the moment, largely thanks to Araquanid's influence allowing for an influx of Water-immune Water types, which Tapu Bulu can force out or OHKO, and Araquanid also forcing a decline in Celesteela usage due to it being set-up bait. Horn Leech gives Bulu some staying power, although if it's trying to switch into attacks too much it will die fairly quickly.

248+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix in Grassy Terrain: 210-247 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and Grassy Terrain recovery
-1 248+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian in Grassy Terrain: 249-294 (65.1 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
248+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex in Grassy Terrain: 336-396 (110.5 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
248+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Superpower over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 426-504 (121 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and Grassy Terrain recovery


Swords Dance Rockium or Grassium can do a similar job but lack the immediate power. Adamant Scarf will still OHKO Araquanid but you lose a lot of power and you're not really fast enough as a scarfer.

Last Araquanid counter for today...


Gyarados @ Choice Band
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Liquidation
- Earthquake
- Aqua Jet

Gyarados @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Moxie / Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Dragon Dance
- Roost / Liquidation / Substitute
- Earthquake / Liquidation / Substitute

These sets are very similar to the Dragonite and Salamence sets posted above.

252 Atk Gyarados Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Araquanid: 408-480 (120.3 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Araquanid: 642-756 (189.3 - 223%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Gyarados Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Araquanid: 608-716 (179.3 - 211.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Splash Plate Water Bubble Araquanid Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 130-154 (39.2 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252+ SpA Splash Plate Water Bubble Araquanid Water Shuriken (15 BP) (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 220-270 (66.4 - 81.5%) -- approx. 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I'm not going to go into too much detail here. Dragon Dance is better imo, I've found Gyarados too slow for Band to be widely effective

You may note that all of these Araquanid counters seem very similar. They're all Water-resistant, physically offensive Pokemon with strong, usually Super-Effective (and if not ability boosted) attacks to hit Araquanid and decent bulk. This isn't really a coincidence. Anything that's isn't Chansey pretty much needs either a water immunity or both a water resistance and the ability to OHKO a Pokemon with great Special bulk if it wants to be a counter.
The two things that me think Araquanid is broken more than anything (given it's insane power level) is 1) Water Shuriken's unpredictability and the fact that a would-be check or counter can be incapacitated by a lucky crit or 5-hit and 2) Araquanid's excellent bulk, meaning that it can set up on many different Pokemon and can survive even quite strong neutral hits.

EDIT: I have one more Araquanid counter to post that I had forgotten about.


Volcanion @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Blue Flare
- Toxic
- Substitute / Protect

Volcanion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Blue Flare
- Hidden Power [Electric] / Hidden Power [Rock] / Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earth Power

Volcanion is naturally immune to all water moves Araquanid can choose to fire off. Toxic + Substitute or Protect will quickly whittle down Araquanid's HP, while a Super-Effective Hidden Power from Specs can 2hko. The EVs can probably be better. Given that Hidden Power Electric / Toxic Araquanid is rare this is a rather safe counter that can be used throughout the whole match for most matches. You will want good hazard removal because rocks make Volcanion sad.

On the specs set Hidden Power Electric hits Water types like Mantine or Greninja harder than anything else, Hidden Power Rock also hits Mantine while hitting some mons like Dragonite and Salamence, and Hidden Power Flying hits Kommo-O (and Keldeo but Electric gets that too).
----
Here's my team dump! While I may not have been playing in OMPL I did build quite a bit. As I'm going on a bit of a hiatus I'm going to dump EVERYTHING that isn't halfbuilt or a complete meme. That will include a bunch of largely untested teams, bad teams, and maybe even a couple unironically good ones. I'll try to leave a brief description.

Note that most of these were built for the meta with Araquanid + Aero so if those are banned they'll be a bit out of date. If any of the other Pokemon that have been discussed are banned I don't think they'll be as majorly impacted unless they feature that mon.

And no, I don't name my teams.

191399
Working backwards chronologically, this team is very new. Basically untested, it features Nasty Plot Protean Greninja with Spikes to abuse switches. I feel like in practice Marowak-A will let me down as it has in the past when I've attempted to use it for defensive utility, and Venusaur's set is weird, but other than that I'm fairly happy with the team.
191400
This team features two main cores. A DragMag Mence + Zone core (well it's more like Flying type + Mag but w/e) and Freeze Dry Rotom-Wash + Araquanid. Rotom is typically walled by Seismitoad pretty heavily, so Freeze Dry allows it to lure and remove Toad for an eventual Aqaquanid sweep, while retaining the coverage for Grass types and Dragon types. This team hasn't been heavily tested, but Salamence has heavily dented unprepared teams when I have. Hippowdon was added specifically for Terrakion because fuck that thing, what else even counters it, while Sylveon (specifically this set) serves as a Thundurus counter. If I was redoing this team right now I might swap up the Araquanid for something, but I'd like to test it a bit more before I do that.
191401
Oh, look. Another team with Mence, Sylveon, and Rotom. Almost like I was building the same shit over and over again. This team is pretty bad, mostly because I tried to get funky with the last two mons and it didn't pay off. Praise bugge tho.
191402

Bulu + Lucha was the main core that this team was built around. You can probably tell that this team wasn't tested enough by the fact that Thundurus has completely the wrong berry. It's supposed to be Charti, not Chople, so it can survive an Accelerock from Tyranitar and OHKO back with a boosted Focus Miss. Thundurus is important to keep though because you need something to take advantage of the inevitable Landorus switchins on you Lucha. Just not with a berry for it's non-existent Fighting weakness.
191403
Mega Manectric is underrated. It's fast, it's pivoty, it has good coverage. Other than that this team is incredibly standard. The only other deviation is the Rotom set, which is meant to counter Araquanid. I didn't mention it above because it's not a very good counter; if they switch out (which they might) and you use your Z you're pretty much sunk.
191404
This is actually one of the better overall teams I've built this OMPL. Barbaracle is really really solid, especially when paired with Pokemon that can take advantage of common checks. I was a little concerned about the Tornadus set at first, due to a lack of pivoting, but it's worked out in the test matches I played. Scarf Terrakion is also a really nice revenge killer, especially since your opponent will almost always not anticipate scarf. I've won at least one match by someone going for the 'safe' play with Greninja and clicking a power move instead of Water Shuriken, giving me the kill. I would probably recommend running the Tapu Bulu set I posted above over the one here, especially the EVs. However the team is a little weak to Kommo-O without Play Rough so it's not a bad idea to keep it.
191406
Pretty standard Pidgeot + Terrakion balance. A this point I was just sort of throwing Araquanid onto teams, trying to get a good feel for how broken it was, so it may not be the best fit.
191407
The most notable thing about this team (besides running the right berry on Thundurus) is fully offensive physical Tornadus. It's actually a really really good set thanks to Regenerator, pivoting, speed tiers, and powerful STAB. I recommend trying the set. If you need a team I know where you can find one. Be aware that this team is weak to Araquanid. A +3 Araquanid can sweep you with little effort if you don't weaken it to the point Accelerock can KO it as it sets up, which it can do with relative ease on Greninja.
191409
This is stall. It didn't really work. I think I need a Hippowdon on here for Terrakion? I'm not really sure. Honestly Stall is just too difficult to make work in STABmons and I don't even really enjoy it much.


That's pretty much all I have that's at all recent. Most of them feature Pokemon not particularly viable in STABmons as a whole just to deal with Araquanid, which is a problem.

Got any questions about my teams? Any recommendations for improvements? Let me know! If you want to know if you can use / adapt a team, the answer is yes, that is why I am posting them here.
This OMPL has been real, shoutouts to Official Fissure and Dr. Phd. BJ for building and discussing STABmons with me (don't worry I'll do more complete shoutouts later :P)
 
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Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Ok so with the recent council re-vote on the previous suspect slate (besides Aerodactyl, that will remain banned), here are the results:



Thus meaning that....


Araquanid is now banned and Mega Pidgeot is unbanned!

I would like to personally apologize again for the confusion this whole process has caused. I have listened to the feedback given by the STAB players and will definitely give more transparency moving forward. Here is to a good end of our current gen and hopefully a smooth transition to the next!

Of course if anyone else has any current issues with the metagame feel free to address them. In the meantime, resources will be updated periodically as the metagame settles with these big changes.

The Immortal

:blobthumbsup:
 

drampa's grandpa

cannonball
is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Here's the last major viability update of generation 7!
As the viability rankings had not been updated in a long time we did not hold back from changing things, as the meta has changed quite a bit. If you have any questions as to why anything moved please ask :blobthumbsup:

:rotom-wash:Rotom-Wash A+ -> S
:tyranitar:Tyranitar A -> A+
:terrakion:Terrakion A -> A+
:medicham-mega:Medicham-Mega A- -> A+
:thundurus-therian:Thundurus-Therian UR -> A+
Following the ban of the incarnate forme Thundurus-Therian lost its primary competition. It has proven itself an incredibly threatening Pokemon and difficult to counter, thanks to its ability to modify its item and movepool in order to beat would be checks like Tyranitar and Chansey, and use raw power and Owing to muscle through much of the rest of the metagame.
:charizard-mega-x:Charizard-Mega-X A- -> A
:chansey:Chansey A- -> A
:keldeo:Keldeo A- -> A
:tyranitar-mega:Tyranitar-Mega B+ -> A
:rotom-heat:Rotom-Heat B -> A
:alakazam-mega:Alakazam-Mega B+ -> A-
:sylveon:Sylveon B+ -> A-
:slowbro-mega:Slowbro-Mega B -> A-
:pelipper:Pelipper B -> B+
:meloetta:Meloetta B -> B+
:tornadus-therian:Tornadus-Therian B- -> B+
:tapu_bulu:Tapu Bulu B- -> B+
:barbaracle:Barbaracle B- -> B
:manaphy:Manaphy UR -> B
:latias-mega:Latias-Mega UR -> B+
:slowbro:Slowbro UR -> B+
:gliscor:Gliscor UR -> B+
:dragonite:Dragonite UR -> B
:manectric-mega:Manectric-Mega UR -> B-
:seismitoad:Seismitoad UR -> B-
:kommo-o:Kommo-O UR -> B-
:salamence:Salamence UR -> B-
:ninjask:Ninjask UR -> C
:shedinja:Shedinja UR -> C
:doublade:Doublade UR -> C
:volcarona:Volcarona UR -> C
:celesteela:Celesteela S -> A+
:pidgeot-mega: A+ -> A
:toxapex:Toxapex A+ -> A-
:diancie-mega:Diancie-Mega A -> B+
:mimikyu:Mimikyu A -> B
:venusaur-mega:Venusaur-Mega A -> B
:magnezone:Magnezone A- -> B+
:mawile-Mega:Mawile-Mega A- ->B+
:hoopa-unbound:Hoopa-Unbound A- -> B
:altaria-mega:Altaria-Mega A- -> B
:scizor:Scizor B+ -> B
:yanmega:Yanmega B+ -> B-
:latios:Latios B+ -> B-
:azumarill:Azumarill B -> B-
:steelix-mega:Steelix-Mega B- -> C+
:accelgor:Accelgor C+ -> C
:rhydon:Rhydon B- -> UR
:mandibuzz:Mandibuzz C -> UR
:umbreon:Umbreon C -> UR
:skarmory:Skarmory B- -> UR
These are NOT happening. They were proposed, and voted against.
:buzzwole:Buzzwole B -> B+
:beedrill-mega:Beedrill Bee -> Bee+
:gyarados:Gyarados B-> B+


Shoutouts to Funbot28 Chazm In The Hills and Betathunder for working on this update
 
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Not going to ask question, but to gave explanation based on my understandings about the VR update.


(UR to B+)
After experimenting a few times with Mega Latias, I understand what it can do in this metagame. It is a good Terrakion counter thanks to its Fighting-resistance and ability to tank 2 Diamond Storm majority of the time. Unlike actual resist to both Rock and Fighting like Palossand or Doublade, Mega Latias is quite fast for a bulky pokemon. STAB Psystrike is often a OHKO against Terrakion, this trait is also important with its speed as it prevents Terrakion from using +2 Continental Crush, which a lot of would-be checks falls down to it. Its high speed allows it to quickly heal itself before Terrakion tries to KO it with DStorm, considering its 8 PP. Outside of countering Terrakion, it has some useful traits. It stops Keldeo from spamming Specs Water Spout without getting feared by Secret Sword while also being faster than it. It soft-checks Mega Medicham by being able to resist both Photon Geyser and Close Combat, though it can take a lot from Ice Punch and MMedi can tank a Psystrike. It also has decent matchup against Rotom-Wash and Rotom-Heat. MLati's main issue is that it struggles against Steel and Fairy Types like Celesteela, Magearna or Sylveon, and most improtantly, it is vulnerable to getting Pursuit Trapped by Tyranitar.


(A to B)
While it is still able to just take a hit and steal boost, it can only do it once and sometimes its hard to bring it safely. In addition, Mimikyu struggles to deal damage that it is rather hard to sweep.



(B- to UR)
If I recall, this was nominated because of Aerodactyl, but now that is banned. I don't think there's anything worthy to used Rhydon over something.


(B- to UR)
Skarmory faces a serious competition from Celesteela and Ferrothorn for another Steel/Flying or Hazard Setter, respectively. Skarmory only fits on like stall due to its passiveness; Celesteela and Ferrothorn can at least deal decent damage while being easier to fit than Skarmory that make it better overall.
 
Metagame's basically over but because Snake runs through SwSh release I'm deciding to post some final thoughts on STABmons in a Viability Rankings post. Here we go, we're going to be going over quite a few unexpected nominations here.

:lopunny-mega: A+ -> S
:greninja-ash: A+ -> S

Lumping these two together as they're for a somewhat similar reason - they're both incredibly powerful fast wallbreakers that are capable of varying up their moveset in order to bypass what checks they have and are capable of controlling the endgame almost by their own. Mega Lopunny's general resists, Landorus-Therian, Slowbro and Celesteela all have a few things in common - they are either answers by technicality or force a 50/50 decision on the Lopunny user. Ice Punch simply defeats Landorus whilst in multiple different scenarios Mega Lopunny has punishes for these targets, be it Glare to paralyze it for another teammate, Explosion to straight up force it through and bring in another abuser like Terrakion, and if you want to even Recover for repeated switchins on Tyranitar and for easier switchins on some more passive support mons like Ferrothorn and Toxapex. What makes Mega Lopunny so insanely powerful in the current metagame however isn't just this - it's the blistering Speed and initial power that's gotten from its high base power STABs that allow it to revenge kill almost every relevant offensive threat unboosted. The ridiculous speed tier of 405 manages to give Mega Lopunny a few switches on its own and possibly even more given VoltTurn support, and for a Pokemon that can simply just grant an option to be able to bypass another counter entirely simply makes this Pokemon deserving of the same accolades Rotom-W and Landorus-T are.

Ash Greninja is simply another conceivably massive threat in STABmons that could simply end your day out of team support or a different option, and is still very splashable due to its constraining transformation and effective 60 BP priority that invalidates most revenge killers either when boosted with a Life Orb or in rain. In this Fighting-type prominent metagame, Ash Greninja continues to get multiple switchins just like Mega Lopunny - through Slowbro, revenge killing other Water weaks, or simply through Water Shuriken priority. Because Toxapex is generally non-present, Ice Beam can be used by AshGren to simply just deny Grass-types the capability of checking it easily. Even outside of the Nasty Plot sets, Ash Greninja can simply cut through other methods of dealing with it. Choice Band sets are very deadly in the right conditions, picking off threats at moderate percentages with Pursuit or simply just double downing on wallbreaking power and using Gunk Shot to get surprise transformations. And then comes to the Choice Specs sets - quite possibly the biggest threat on Rain teams. Water Spout simply denies other resists a chance to deal with Greninja properly through sheer power alone and the immediate threat it provides can be a testament to Ash Greninja's viability and reason for Rain's success. Its sheer influence on building and effect in battle makes me regard it as S worthy.
:terrakion: A+ -> A
Terrakion is still good but I don't think it's as dominant as its viability would say it is as a plethora of priority options + difficulty to fit over other options in the slot like Megacham and Mega Lopunny can be frustrating. It doesn't have an amazing offense matchup either, having to choose between Accelerock for better damage on Choice Scarf users like Landorus-Therian or Mach Punch for other revenge killing options like Greninja and Mega Lopunny. It also has major problems with damaging Mega Slowbro and its speed tier isn't much to write home about. Mega Medicham's surge in usage has also hurt this beast pretty bad - its usage basically stops it from sweeping. As of right now I would say that Choice Band is probably the best way to use this mon as Head Smash will just go straight through a lot of its checks but the stopping of a sweep really hurts this mon.
:greninja: A -> A+
Gren should rise for a very similar reasoning to Thundurus-Therian being where it is as it's very hard to properly counter and the right moveset means that it will often go straight through defensive cores without the need for any external support. Sadly it doesn't have as many switchin opportunities as AshGreninja and Mega Lopunny but that's the compromise you have to make to be a better breaker. Still, a very viable option in the current metagame that has a lot of opportunities to just slice straight past its checks.
:pidgeot-mega: A -> A-
Pidgeot-Mega continues to have issues with Accelerock and Steel types being fairly common and aside from No Guard Sing being very useful it's not really got the best power behind it and often fails to do as much as other alternative Normal types such as Meloetta. Its damage on most playstyles except Hyper Offense isn't really that noted because of the prominence of Celesteela and Heatran in the current metagame.
:charizard-mega-x: A- -> A
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Fire Lash
- Earthquake
- Roost

V-create is insanely busted and this makes for ZardX's place as being quite possibly the strongest wallbreaker in the metagame. Fire Lash + V-create goes straight through even the toughest of ZardX resists like Landorus-Therian, Seismitoad / Gastrodon and Tapu Fini whilst still providing utility against the many steels of STABmons. Dragon Dance is still threatening and can also drop Earthquake for a similar setup provided Heatran is taken care of. I feel like overall this makes Zard an incredible balance and stall breaker, with the side effects that it isn't really that fast and whilst it does pick up a few switches isn't very bulky either.
:tapu fini: A- -> A
Fini's very useful despite the abundance of Sand in STAB. Ashgren being very common and the continued usage of more Fighting types makes it a very useful Pokemon to have alongside its minor support in Misty Terrain making some Pokemon like Garchomp have difficulty even attempting to break through Ground-immunes. As a defogger it's very consistent, being able to deal with defensive Landorus-Therian and Terrakion if physically defensive, Heatran and Garchomp. Certainly worth your time as a pick despite the Thundy weakness -
:tangrowth: A- -> B+
Tangrowth's not bad it just hates the presence of Thundurus and the challenge that Tapu Bulu gives it as a slot, mainly. Increased Thundy usage as well as breakers mainly switching it up to hit or evade Grass-types makes it a tad tougher to use than initially, and it doesn't provide too big of an offensive momentum gain that some other alternatives can give.
:toxapex: A- -> B
Pex is really bad and passive. Not only is it outdone as a Toxic Spikes setter by Amoonguss but it also tends to get beaten by AshGren flinches and other Pokemon that easily set up on its face. In particular, Thundurus-Therian and Extrasensory Protean Greninja tend to just use this mon as setup fodder and blast through teams without effort, so having a mon like Toxapex is really detrimental to the success of these teams.
:meloetta: B+ -> A
Quite possibly the most underrated mon in STABmons. It has incredible utility worth as one of the few Pokemon that can even think about staving off Thundurus-Therian and two very powerful STAB options as well as a large movepool with multiple different coverage options that can make it insanely difficult to wall without a Magearna in the back.
Meloetta @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 12 SpA / 220 SpD / 24 Spe
Calm Nature
- Boomburst
- U-turn / Knock Off
- Knock Off / Glare / Rapid Spin
- Milk Drink

Meloetta @ Fist Plate / Fightinium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Judgment / Focus Blast
- Thunder / Psystrike
- Calm Mind

Meloetta @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Psycho Boost
- Focus Blast
- U-turn

Meloetta @ Fist Plate / Psychium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 36 SpA / 68 SpD / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psystrike
- Judgment / Focus Blast
- Calm Mind
- Milk Drink


Alike to Sylveon, Meloetta can also be used as an effective pivot, being able to wall Thundurus-Therian nicely and taking on other offensive threats like Mega Alakazam, non Dark coverage Greninja, and Mega Pidgeot. The usefulness of this on current builds mainly lies in a non-passive threat which is capable of disrupting a multitude of switchins - this works similarly to Rotom and I feel that with this Meloetta should lie in a similar position due to its diversity and excellent role compression.
:latios: B+ -> C
This mon hasn't seen usage in forever and is primarily outclassed by Mega Latios and Meloetta as Psychic type wallbreakers.
:slowbro: B+ -> A-
:slowbro-mega: B+ -> A-

These two Pokemon were underrated by the update and I put that on me for not putting them as high initially. Future Sight 3a variants lead to being excellent on bulky offense as one of the few good Fighting resists in the metagame and can continually put pressure on opponents whilst Psycho Boost Mega Slowbro can even start wallbreaking immediately and posing a massive threat whilst still being a very solid defensive presence. Considerably splashable mons which deal with Fighting types exceptionally well.

:porygon2: B- -> UR
Haven't really seen this mon in a while and Fighting type meta doesn't really help it. Doesn't really do anything important that Chansey or Meloetta can't do imo.

:amoonguss: UR -> B
Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes
- Spore

I'm honestly quite surprised that Amoonguss has stayed off this VR even in the past updates. It's an incredible pivot for what it compresses, being able to deal with multiple of the threatening Water types that this VR holds, in particular Ashgren and Keldeo. As a Fairy resist it also does the job better than most others with it being able to punish different sorts of switchins in multiple ways. The support moves that it holds make it comparable on a slightly smaller level to Tapu Bulu and Tangrowth and so I feel as if Amoonguss is a solid option in the metagame as a Toxic Spikes user.
:infernape: UR -> B-
Infernape @ Metronome
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Lash
- V-create
- Close Combat
- Substitute

Infernape is a frailer variant of Charizard which doesn't take up the mega slot and is capable of potentially doing even greater damage as Blaze V-create tends to be incredibly hard to resist for most teams. The sheer power of it allows it to just escape Landorus-Therian, Rotom-W, Garchomp and the likes quite well
:reuniclus: UR -> B-

Reuniclus @ Colbur Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Psystrike / Stored Power
- Focus Blast / Cosmic Power
- Recover
- Calm Mind

Reuniclus is an interesting wincon in and of itself. First off, it's one of the few proper Fighting type resists in the metagame, staving off Mega Medicham and Mega Lopunny from being major pains. It also has a plethora of targets to set up on or dish out damage immediately, like Ferrothorn, no Taunt Tapu Fini and Toxapex. When paired with Toxic Spikes it can also unleash a Cosmic Power set which has very little answers other than Dark types under these conditions, which can easily be mitigated with options like Buzzwole and Ferrothorn. Excellent wincon that feels more niche but in line with other Pokemon in the current space.
 
Honestly, I strongly disagree on a Mlop rise. Frankly, if we’re looking at strong fighting types right now, it would be completely remiss to not mention that MMedi is just generally the best option available atm. It does suffer a bit more 4mss than Mlop does but in exchange it does a much better job. It’s much easier to build around and harder to build against atm.
 
Honestly, I strongly disagree on a Mlop rise. Frankly, if we’re looking at strong fighting types right now, it would be completely remiss to not mention that MMedi is just generally the best option available atm. It does suffer a bit more 4mss than Mlop does but in exchange it does a much better job. It’s much easier to build around and harder to build against atm.
I largely disagree with this personally. Yes mmedi is difficult to prep for but you get consistently better performance out of the free slot that mlop has imo. 'cause in general you still have major issues with stuff like slowbro and lando-t without a significant boosting move or free moveslot to assist you.
 
I largely disagree with this personally. Yes mmedi is difficult to prep for but you get consistently better performance out of the free slot that mlop has imo. 'cause in general you still have major issues with stuff like slowbro and lando-t without a significant boosting move or free moveslot to assist you.
MMedi has 2 free moves lots, and 3-4 moves to choose between. If it runs priority (fake out and/or Mach) it can absolutely murder offense way better than even MLop can, with thunder and/or ice punch it can completely invalidate checks. Lopunny, for instance, can’t even beat Slowbro with +2 head charge, whereas MMedi can 2HKO with tpunch. Similarly, Ice Punch Lopunny doesn’t even reliably 2HKO defensive Landorus. This is made worse by how mmedi is pretty much only walled by those (and again, only with the wrong moves) and healthy MSableye, whereas there are no shortage of defensive Pokémon capable of switching into MLop.
 
MMedi has 2 free moves lots, and 3-4 moves to choose between. If it runs priority (fake out and/or Mach) it can absolutely murder offense way better than even MLop can, with thunder and/or ice punch it can completely invalidate checks. Lopunny, for instance, can’t even beat Slowbro with +2 head charge, whereas MMedi can 2HKO with tpunch. Similarly, Ice Punch Lopunny doesn’t even reliably 2HKO defensive Landorus. This is made worse by how mmedi is pretty much only walled by those (and again, only with the wrong moves) and healthy MSableye, whereas there are no shortage of defensive Pokémon capable of switching into MLop.
Medi's offense murdering isn't really too big in it when you consider that some big names on offense like Thundy are faster and also capable of tanking both forms of priority whilst Head Charge from Mega Lopunny is capable of OHKOing Thundy-T after Life Orb recoil. Slowbro isn't exactly what I'd consider an amazing example for a resist either seeing as it gets eviscerated by Explosion which will also catch the other two targets, something Megacham can't actually do, and it often gets easily abused by its partners because of that (see: AshGren). Given the point that Ice Punch won't 2HKO Landorus (it will OHKO at +2 however, which does mean that it isn't too relevant IMO) also isn't something that Megacham can do because it will likely get Beak Blasted from the situation, causing the same loop as from Mega Lopunny if it even wants to be preserved. Lopunny's more general speed makes it superior and the simple three slots means that the final can cater to any situation you desire where as with Megacham you're not going anywhere if you've been countered and it suffers with the third coverage slot over double priority to try and get the most out of its revenge killing capabilites, which, again, for the most part Mega Lopunny is capable of doing without that stress.
 
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drampa's grandpa

cannonball
is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Isn’t Thundurus banned? (Ignore what I’m saying if you meant the Therian form)
Therian

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I see Chazm has replaced Magearna with Mega Lop.
Anyway
Mega Lopunny is definitely not S rank. It is far too reliant on Explosion to break neutral threats, and is too frail to reliably SD up, especially since many of the defensive mons in the meta either hit it Super-Effectively or threaten a burn. It can't come in multiple times to break, while something like Medicham or notably Thundurus can be pivoted in repeatedly to break the opposing team. Not that it isn't good, but compared to something like Medicham (which I would give more consideration to an S nom for but not nom myself) it just isn't as good a breaker. Its speed is great but if its your primary revenge killer you're losing to most speed boosters (anything base 75 or over so even slower scarfers like Bulu pass it). It's good but not THAT good. Hard pass.
I could possibly see Ashninja in S. It has a ton of variety in sets, and almost all of them are incredibly good. It can bypass wouldbe checks like Pex or Fini depending on what it wants to do. Chansey can't even reliably wall the Specs set if it carries Knock Off (knock off specs ninja is dank try it, although having to dump a move is sad :psysad: )
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Steam Eruption vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Chansey: 289-342 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Not gonna agree but not gonna hard no on it either. I personally think while it has the potential to go S, people haven't explored its movepool to its full potential (I barely see Gunk Shot which slaughters Bulu and Fini).
weren't we going to unrank this?

:slowbro: B+ -> A-
:slowbro-mega: B+ -> A-
Honestly I'd even consider moving Mega Bro up to A. It is practically the only viable wall to several top threats and unlike many defensive mons it's not setup bait thanks to its great coverage and decent special attack.

Regular bro I don't care.

[14:56:24] +in the hills: yall know we already voted mbro to a- last update right
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Agree, Zard is terrifying to face. Tyranitar isn't quite as common as it was say, a month ago because of all the fighting types and Zard can be very difficult to beat outside of that without sacking some mons.

Sadly it doesn't have as many switchin opportunities as AshGreninja
How does Greninja have fewer switchin opportunities than Greninja? They're the same type at base with the same bulk. Genuinely curious to know what you meant here.
A is fine imo, it's amazing as a lure and easy to tailor to your team but lacks power but what it does beyond what its explicitly tailored to do is fairly limited, meaning that while it can help ease your matchup versus specific threats it wont put in much work in other matchups.


:landorus-therian: S -> A+
I brought this up when we were redoing the viability ranking, but I feel it even more strongly now. Physically defensive Landorus-Therian just isn't very good. Pretty much every Fighting type has a way around it; Medicham catches it with Ice Punch and then Photon Geysers it into oblivion, Lopunny Swords Dances into Ice Punch for a KO (altho it gets burnt), Terrak SD's into Z move. It lets in Thundurus for free which you really don't want to do. Every Rotom walls it flat. Set-up sets are either too slow or too easy to wall. Honestly the only Landorus set I like right now is Scarf, which, while good, is not S rank by itself.

If we end up banning Thundurus at least part of the reasoning here would be gone, but I still think Lando-T is a mon whose defensive potential just doesn't cut it in STABmons and whose defining traits: role compression and flexibility, are outweighed by the fact that it simply doesn't have the stats to tank hits here. It's 100% not on the level of Rotom-W in terms of flexibility and ability to support the team and its ranking should reflect that.

:drampa: UR -> S
This should be self-explanatory

I had a 7000+ word post I wrote up with a ton of weird sets I wanted to post with Pokemon that were either never used or simply forgotten but the gist of my message was;

STABmons never finished developing this generation, in part due to how small the community is. We've been running a lot of the same Pokemon and same sets while many more niche Pokemon never get used. Some Pokemon, like Celesteela, have had one set underused for a long time (offensive Steela is great btw people keep winning with it in tours). This is in part why Thundurus seems so hard to deal with. It has checks and counters; Mega Latias, Tyranitar, Mega Alakazam, various scarfers, and Nihilego all provide a ton of counterplay to Thundurus. The main reason it's more terrifying to face than the plethora of other wallbreakers is that it comes in on several overused defensive Pokemon for free and sets up, which when combined with Oblivion Wing recovery means it can break a team over and over.

Anyway, some sets
:sm/kommo-o:
Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 248 HP / 120 SpD / 140 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Flamethrower
- Secret Sword

Specially defensive Kommo-O may seem like a departure from what you normally see (WHAT no Clangorous Soulblaze?!?!?) but hear me out.

Bulletproof gives you immunity to Beak Blast. Since you just easily win against Ferrothorn with taunt and Flamethrower and can taunt Steela, Lando-T, and Chansey this gives you a really good matchup common rockers and some of the most common defoggers. Given that Rotom usually doesn't run both Defog and Ice Beam you can set rocks against that as well. Solid typing lets you check Pokemon like Greninja, Serperior (Bulletproof means Dragon Pulse isn't a worry), Tyranitar, and some Rotom and Keldeo.

Its main flaw is lack of recovery. It's very reliant on Leftovers to stay healthy, so if it eats a Knock Off it's badly crippled. If its your main answer to something like Greninja or Keldeo you have to be able to put offensive pressure on them so it cant come in too many times or they'll eventually be able to break through.

You can also run a physical or mixed set, but special is overall superior because it avoids Beak Blast burns and its not like Kommo-O is a) walled by Chansey or Tyranitar or b) going to stay in on Sylveon. Speaking of Sylveon, Soundproof is an option, but since a big part of the draw of this set is its matchup against defoggers due to its Beak Blast immunity I recommend sticking with Bulletproof.
:sm/tapu-bulu:
Tapu Bulu @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Swords Dance
- Strength Sap / Substitute
- Horn Leech / Power Whip

I won't claim this set is particularly original, given that it's basically just the OU Fightinium set, but this set breaks through Celesteela with a tiny bit of chip, which is what most people think of as Tapu Bulu's hardest wall.
+2 252+ Atk Tapu Bulu All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 320-377 (80.6 - 94.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

EVs creep defensive Lando-T plus 1 because odd HP. Rotom is more relevant cuz defensive Lando just Beak Blasts you which has negative priority anyway but a) Rotom likely creeps Lando cuz why not and b) if you're creeping Rotom it's not much further to Lando so why not.

Second set!
Tapu Bulu @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Rock Tomb
- Nature's Madness

This set is a more defensive take on the typical Bulu sets. It switches into Greninja and Keldeo a number of times, can beat Fini and Chansey (with rocks). The speed EVs + Rock Tomb allow it to not be Thundy setup bait as it slow Thundy down then KOs.
:sm/gallade-mega:
Gallade-Mega (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Photon Geyser
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch / Knock Off / Play Rough
People have tried to write this off as unviable and a worse Medicham to me before and I just don't agree. Gallade has three things over Medicham.

1) Most relevantly, speed. Those extra 10 base speed pass a very crowded speed tier, allowing Gallade to check Pokemon such as Keldeo, Thundurus, Medicham itself, Charizard, and Terrakion (more reliably), all very relevant and threatening Pokemon. It also makes Gallade a better cleaner, as it doesn't have to wait until these Pokemon are gone / weakened into Mach Punch range to sweep.
versus Terrakion
252 Atk Gallade-Mega Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 510-602 (157.8 - 186.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Gallade-Mega Close Combat vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 254-302 (78.6 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 236-282 (73 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Mach Punch vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 120-144 (37.1 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Gallade reliably OHKOs from full while Medicham does not. If Terrakoin gets a Diamond Storm boost Gallade KOs from a much higher HP threshold. Medicham will still win this most of the time thanks to Mach Punch, but Gallade is a better bet

+2 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 222-261 (85 - 100%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Terrakion Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gallade-Mega: 67-80 (24.1 - 28.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
defensively Terrakion forces Medicham to Mach Punch, while against Gallade it is forced to either switch or Accelerock/Mach Punch and do nothing

against Thundurus
252 Atk Gallade-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-Therian: 262-309 (87.6 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Medicham does nothing and Gallade does a ton of damage

against Keldeo
252 Atk Gallade-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 426-504 (131.8 - 156%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 120-142 (37.1 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Medicham-Mega: 306-361 (117.2 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gallade does way more damage to Specs Keldeo. Medicham simply loses to Steam Eruption, although with priority it can weaken Spout.

252 SpA Keldeo Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade-Mega: 217-256 (78.3 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Keldeo Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Medicham-Mega: 280-330 (107.2 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Keldeo Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Medicham-Mega: 205-243 (78.5 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This is if it's scarf, although you shouldn't be harding in so you should be able to tell from how much damage it's doing what its item is

Scarf Keldeo fails to OHKO Gallade from full, so in a 1v1 situation or in a revenge killing situation Gallade wins.
Medicham faces a 50/50 against a Keldeo that isn't already choice locked, as if it clicks an attack that isn't priority it gets OHKO'd by Water Spout, but if it clicks non-Fake Out priority it gets 2hko'd by Steam Eruption and can't 2hko back, as well as risking getting burnt.

versus Medicham
252 Atk Gallade-Mega Photon Geyser vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 223-264 (85.4 - 101.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Gallade-Mega Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 268-316 (102.6 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gallade OHKOs Medicham, while Medicham obviously ties. Note that Play Rough entirely sucks outside of hitting Medicham (mostly not needed) and like, Sableye, so I don't actually recommend it.


2) Access to Swords Dance. Swords Dance lets Gallade boost its power way higher than Medicham's at the cost of a turn. This combined with its decent speed can let Gallade clean up weakened teams.

3) Acceptable Special Defense. As shown above with the Keldeo calc, Gallade can eat a fairly powerful special hit if it really needs to. I don't think this is particularly relevant because if you do that you essentially lose the ability to use Gallade except in very safe ways or as fodder, meaning it can't set up on or reliably force out even defensive Pokemon. However it does open up some options that don't exist for Medicham in an emergency.

OVERALL: Medicham is better, yeah I know. Medicham is one of the best and most terrifying Pokemon in the tier. That doesn't make Gallade unviable, and I think it deserves to be used and to be ranked, although I'm not quite sure where. Latias-Mega and Latios-Mega are both ranked on the OU viability ranking (and ours) despite having the same typing and similar statlines, because they do different things.
:sm/rotom-wash::rotom-heat:
Rotom-Wash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Blue Flare
- Volt Switch
- Trick / Ice Beam / Freeze Dry

Rotom-Heat @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Blue Flare
- Ice Beam / Freeze Dry
- Trick

These things hit surprisingly hard.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 255-300 (74.7 - 87.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

But that's not really why they're good. They're good because they have OPAF coverage and the only way to avoid getting nailed by at least neutral hits is to predict.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias-Mega: 196-232 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Ice Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias-Mega: 132-156 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
After rocks that's a guaranteed KO, and if they try and Roost it off without Calm Minding obviously they just keep taking more.

Rotom-Wash Trick vs. Chansey: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- Guaranteed OHKO
ez
You could also run Scarf with Timid, but I prefer Specs.
:sm/dragalge:
Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Core Enforcer
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast / Steam Eruption

Nobody uses this :( This is probably my favorite underused mon besides Barbaracle this generation (although Barbaracle actually has some usage now so :psyglad: ). The EVs outspeed min speed Tyranitar and Adamant Mega Mawile and so it can hit it with one of its coverage moves when it tries to come in and beat it more easily. Dragalge hits really hard, and has the coverage to nail most common Steel types. But what gives it a niche as a wallbreaker is its combination of typing and good special bulk. It can tank and KO Pokemon such as Sylveon, Greinja, Keldeo,and Rotom.
Calcs against offensive Pokemon:
(It can nail these two on switchin but I don't recommend staying in)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 472-556 (116.8 - 137.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 388-458 (101.5 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Core Enforcer vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 354-418 (92.6 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 153-180 (51.5 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Core Enforcer vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 318-376 (98.4 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 186-219 (62.6 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Core Enforcer vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja-Ash: 388-458 (136.1 - 160.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Calcs against defensive Pokemon:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Celesteela: 262-310 (65.9 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Boomburst vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 165-195 (55.5 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 336-396 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Core Enforcer vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 278-328 (91.4 - 107.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Rotom-Wash Ice Beam vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 112-134 (37.7 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The main problem Dragalge faces is that, despite its bulk allowing it to tank hits, it cannot switch into much or it loses that ability. Since it can't come in on much besides predicted non-attacking moves or weak/resisted hits it suffers when the opponent has a reliable counter to it, the most immediately apparent being Chansey, which can sit in front of you all day. The opponent can also simply outplay you in the guessing game because you are choice locked and don't have a single particularly spammable move. Combined with your low speed this means that Dragalge can quickly lose its ability to do anything against a team that doesn't have something like a Ferrothorn that it can outpace. Because of this it is worth considering a non-specs set, although the power drop is noticeable. Z-Dragon (either Draco Meteor or Core) is worth considering, which can let you run Toxic Spikes as well.

Overall when you ask what does Dragalge have over other, more standard, and overall better Dragon types? It has access to a powerful STAB which can nuke Sylveon (who it outspeeds if Sylv is min speed which it will be btw), a dark neutrality over Lati@s, and great coverage between dual STABs, Focus Blast, and Tbolt (and somewhat Steam Eruption) which allows you to pick off threats that bother other dragon types, most notably Steela and Sylveon.
Here's a paste with all the sets I was originally going to post. I decided against a bunch of them but hey, why not.
 
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Understandable, I'll drop the MLop discussion tbh. It's just the mon I happen to like in a metagame and it just ends up being that way for every other metagame.

Big disagree on Lando to A+. Even with Thundy-T being a major problem for it to overcome, Lando-T has a large set of moves for it to just abuse many of its counters and often does this in many of its games. Infact I've been loving it mainly for this role compressionary set:

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Shore Up

Even without attack investment, Flyinium Lando still makes for a severe threat to team structures, particularly balances just from flying STAB alone. You can run more speed if you're worried about Rotom creep / Heatran, but this works particularly as a Fighting softcheck without major loss of momentum because of the amount of options it has against multiple builds. You also live 0 SpA Steam Eruption so if you have an SD up you can take out a Rotom if you need to.

In general about the other sets I feel that it is overall too threatening to balance teams to warrant a drop - Scarf covers offense pretty well for that and I feel that it is nicely reflected in the roles it can provide for a team are fairly wide, just like Rotom-W.

The Greninja argument being that it can't switch in more than AshGren is that it can't afford Water Shuriken without being directly outclassed by AshGren. However, I think its set can be generalized - its effectiveness is greatest against the meta as this set:

Greninja @ Waterium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Extrasensory / Grass Knot
- Nasty Plot

Aside from Dragonite and Chansey this basically bops all the potential Greninja walls depending on the coverage slot. Extrasensory hits Pex whilst Grass Knot has better matchups against bulky waters like Quagsire and Seismitoad. The reason I feel this is A+ is because of how exploitable it is to get switchins for this sort of mon at the moment considering how many switches it forces and the Z move's capability to crush most offensive mons in the metagame.

...Oh I forgot to dump one more set btw.

Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shore Up
- Precipice Blades
- Toxic
- Spikes

Pairs extremely well with Heatran builds. This Garchomp is a bit different to regularly used variants - instead it acts as a solid Fire resist that is also capable of pivoting on Rotom formes and spiking up. It's also fairly non-passive for a spiker so it tends to hurt commonly used spinners like Sylveon hard enough to force recovery or 2hko if Sylveon doesn't invest enough into Defense.
 

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