STABmons+

EV

Banned deucer.
Destiny Bond seems like the biggest thing Rotom Forms gain out of the Ghost inheritance. That will be quite interesting. (Where interesting means infuriating)
The Rotom formes have always had access to Ghost in normal STABmons. Not sure why it's being pointed out now when Spore, Roost, Boltbeam, Searing Shot, and Steam Eruption are among the moves passed between them.
 
Can we talk about the obscenity that is mewtwo? With access suddenly stored power(with psystrike as an option) and secret sword, calm mind/recover MMY sets are monstrous. It can also run taunt sets, and MMX is also obscene, though low kick can probably be swapped out for CC or sacred sword, and retains a sky high 154 spa for psycho boosts on a mixed set. This thing is obscene.


Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power/Psystrike
- Secret Sword
- Recover

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat/Sacred Sword
- Stone Edge
- Psycho Boost
- Recover
 
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Can we talk about the obscenity that is mewtwo? With access suddenly to psystrike(or stored power), secret sword, calm mind, recover, this thing is a monster. It can also run taunt sets, and MMX is also obscene, though low kick can probably be swapped out for CC or sacred sword, and retains a sky high 154 spa for psycho boosts on a mixed set. This thing is obscene.


Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power/Psystrike
- Secret Sword
- Recover

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat/Sacred Sword
- Stone Edge
- Psycho Boost
- Recover
It already had psystrike dude. It's its signature move.
 
Can we talk about the obscenity that is mewtwo? With access suddenly to psystrike(or stored power), secret sword, calm mind, recover, this thing is a monster. It can also run taunt sets, and MMX is also obscene, though low kick can probably be swapped out for CC or sacred sword, and retains a sky high 154 spa for psycho boosts on a mixed set. This thing is obscene.


Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power/Psystrike
- Secret Sword
- Recover

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat/Sacred Sword
- Stone Edge
- Psycho Boost
- Recover
MMY seems like the best counter to skymin,being immune to spore and taking several special hits, it wont have an easy time if the skymin is scarf though, but then it loses on alot of more power that it could have, which is very important in ubers since everything is bulky.
 
As far as primal groudon, I don't think that vcreate on it as scary as you all think it is. It's very popular in ubers for it's insane bulk and ability to reliably set stealth rocks. Sacred fire would granted be a very powerful addition to its moveset, but it still doesn't appreciate pogre switchins and latis still handle it fairly well, as it will have far less room to carry dragon coverage on most sets (bar rock polish sets). It could be too strong, but I think people should play with it more before theorycrafting it as too strong. While in sun that vcreate will be insane, keep in mind we're playing a metagame where ubers are allowed, and things like reflect lugia and primal ogre are allowed and are pretty reliable switchins, and groudon's speed tier of 90 does it no favors vs offensive teams, especially if you're taking away from it's bulk by running more offensively invested speed/attack.
 
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Mewtwonite X
This is annoying me more than it should.

Anyway, both the Mewtwos are stopped in their tracks by Lugia. And if it happens to Heart Swap, you're more in trouble. Overall, I don't think the Mewtwos would be very good when Lugia is still around.
 
This is annoying me more than it should.

Anyway, both the Mewtwos are stopped in their tracks by Lugia. And if it happens to Heart Swap, you're more in trouble. Overall, I don't think the Mewtwos would be very good when Lugia is still around.
Again as mentioned mewtwo has access to taunt, and stored power does far more than enough to deal with lugia post rocks (unless you sack something to bring lugia in), as well as ice beam if not a cm set, stone edge off mmx will 2hko after rocks. Lugia is decent but can't directly switch into mewtwo without knowing the set, and certain sets won't be bothered by lugia.
 
The Rotom formes have always had access to Ghost in normal STABmons. Not sure why it's being pointed out now when Spore, Roost, Boltbeam, Searing Shot, and Steam Eruption are among the moves passed between them.
... why would the Rotoms have Ghost moves and Shaymin not have Flying moves in regular STABmons? (I tested this for confirmation: STABmons will reject Land Forme Shaymin with Flying moves) It makes more sense for Shaymin Land Forme to inherit Flying moves than for non-Ghost Rotoms to inherit Ghost moves, since Shaymin-Sky will revert to Land Forme if frozen in the middle of battle, whereas Rotom cannot change Forme in battle, period.

I've been assuming the Rotoms don't get Ghost moves because A: nobody ever runs Washtom or Heattom with a Ghost move Rotom doesn't normally get and B: Rotom alternate Formes getting Ghost moves would only make sense if all other Pokemon that change Form(e)s and types without losing Form(e)-specific moves had the same dynamic. (This only currently matters to Shaymin and Arceus, but you are banning Arceus from that dynamic here and Shaymin being barred from Flying moves is just inconsistent and baseless -Arceus at least breaks the meta by being consistent with the rules)

As-is I'm baffled as to why Rotom, and Rotom alone, should benefit from such a favorable ruling in regular STABmons.



On-topic, I was focusing on Destiny Bond because it gives Rotom yet another way to surprise-screw people. Of course, since apparently you can do that in STABmons...

So instead let me point out that now Meloetta-Aria gets Secret Sword and Vacuum Wave. That makes it that little bit more terrifying.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
... why would the Rotoms have Ghost moves and Shaymin not have Flying moves in regular STABmons? (I tested this for confirmation: STABmons will reject Land Forme Shaymin with Flying moves) It makes more sense for Shaymin Land Forme to inherit Flying moves than for non-Ghost Rotoms to inherit Ghost moves, since Shaymin-Sky will revert to Land Forme if frozen in the middle of battle, whereas Rotom cannot change Forme in battle, period.

I've been assuming the Rotoms don't get Ghost moves because A: nobody ever runs Washtom or Heattom with a Ghost move Rotom doesn't normally get and B: Rotom alternate Formes getting Ghost moves would only make sense if all other Pokemon that change Form(e)s and types without losing Form(e)-specific moves had the same dynamic. (This only currently matters to Shaymin and Arceus, but you are banning Arceus from that dynamic here and Shaymin being barred from Flying moves is just inconsistent and baseless -Arceus at least breaks the meta by being consistent with the rules)

As-is I'm baffled as to why Rotom, and Rotom alone, should benefit from such a favorable ruling in regular STABmons.



On-topic, I was focusing on Destiny Bond because it gives Rotom yet another way to surprise-screw people. Of course, since apparently you can do that in STABmons...

So instead let me point out that now Meloetta-Aria gets Secret Sword and Vacuum Wave. That makes it that little bit more terrifying.
Shaymin does get Flying in STABmons. The code is wrong. Rotom passes Ghost to its formes because in the rules of STABmons, any forme changes that take place outside of battle (like Shaymin) carry that type over. The reason in regular STABmons why the Rotom formes don't transfer their new types back is because those signature moves are forgotten in game, which was discussed at the beginning of Gen VI. STABmons+ ignores that rule, however, which is akin to the megas reverse-transferring their new types (sort of.)

The Immortal can you give Shaymin access to Flying in regular STABmons please? AFAIK it worked last gen. Not sure what happened this time.
 

Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
Sorry if someone has already mentioned the stuff I say, only skimmed through quickly

This seems like death to all FakeSpeeders

Arceus @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Focus Blast
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp

Kyurem-B of course looks like the prime threat, as many people have brought up, I think checks are going to be largely on a what set it is running basis but my personal fave set for it would be:

Kyurem-Black @ Lum Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Sacred Fire
- Fusion Bolt

flawless coverage and outspeeds Mega Mewtwo Y after one boost, absolutely everything after two boosts, Lum to troll the bulky Arceus that I feel will be everywhere to stop it, +1 Icicle Crash 2HKOes 252 / 4 Arceus neutral to it, and Fusion Bolt and Sacred Fire hit all Arceus that resist it super effectively. Extremely bulky support Arc which are neutral to Icicle Crash might live 2 after rocks, but these should be easy enough to take advantage of and any prior damage and they too will fall.

+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Arceus: 195-229 (44 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 

EV

Banned deucer.
I have a feeling stat control (Topsy, phazing, Heart Swap, etc) will play a more important role than Fakespeed now since most threats are too bulky to revenge via Fakespeed*. I also see a rise in Imposter Ditto to deter setup.

*Except: 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Extreme Speed vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 332-392 (82.1 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I don't even need to show Fake Out because it's an obvious clean 2HKO.
 
If FakeSpeeding isn't up to the mark here, then hold on to your hats. There will be Setup left and right.

A simple Belly Drum Altaria-Mega is unwallable. Belly Drum / ESpeed / Earthquake / Roost and you're effectively messing with ~90% of the tier.
 
If FakeSpeeding isn't up to the mark here, then hold on to your hats. There will be Setup left and right.

A simple Belly Drum Altaria-Mega is unwallable. Belly Drum / ESpeed / Earthquake / Roost and you're effectively messing with ~90% of the tier.
it even kills sable before it can do anything:v4:

Edit: 252+ Atk Mega Altaria Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 153-181 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

this is the most damage it can do to quag without HP grass or solarbeam
 
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Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
Double Edge 2HKOes if it chooses to run it, but the priority is generally much more favourable.
 
Shaymin does get Flying in STABmons. The code is wrong. Rotom passes Ghost to its formes because in the rules of STABmons, any forme changes that take place outside of battle (like Shaymin) carry that type over. The reason in regular STABmons why the Rotom formes don't transfer their new types back is because those signature moves are forgotten in game, which was discussed at the beginning of Gen VI. STABmons+ ignores that rule, however, which is akin to the megas reverse-transferring their new types (sort of.)

The Immortal can you give Shaymin access to Flying in regular STABmons please? AFAIK it worked last gen. Not sure what happened this time.
Fixed.
 
... why would the Rotoms have Ghost moves and Shaymin not have Flying moves in regular STABmons? (I tested this for confirmation: STABmons will reject Land Forme Shaymin with Flying moves) It makes more sense for Shaymin Land Forme to inherit Flying moves than for non-Ghost Rotoms to inherit Ghost moves, since Shaymin-Sky will revert to Land Forme if frozen in the middle of battle, whereas Rotom cannot change Forme in battle, period.

I've been assuming the Rotoms don't get Ghost moves because A: nobody ever runs Washtom or Heattom with a Ghost move Rotom doesn't normally get and B: Rotom alternate Formes getting Ghost moves would only make sense if all other Pokemon that change Form(e)s and types without losing Form(e)-specific moves had the same dynamic. (This only currently matters to Shaymin and Arceus, but you are banning Arceus from that dynamic here and Shaymin being barred from Flying moves is just inconsistent and baseless -Arceus at least breaks the meta by being consistent with the rules)

As-is I'm baffled as to why Rotom, and Rotom alone, should benefit from such a favorable ruling in regular STABmons.



On-topic, I was focusing on Destiny Bond because it gives Rotom yet another way to surprise-screw people. Of course, since apparently you can do that in STABmons...

So instead let me point out that now Meloetta-Aria gets Secret Sword and Vacuum Wave. That makes it that little bit more terrifying.
ShayminL didn't get flying moves, because it can't get air slash, fly, etc. The Rotoms were given ghost moves because all of Rotom-N's Ghost moves, were allowed for the others.
 
Nope. Because they were posted as I was typing that.
you started typing 5 hours ago? cuz thats when eevee posted his post
Shaymin does get Flying in STABmons. The code is wrong. Rotom passes Ghost to its formes because in the rules of STABmons, any forme changes that take place outside of battle (like Shaymin) carry that type over. The reason in regular STABmons why the Rotom formes don't transfer their new types back is because those signature moves are forgotten in game, which was discussed at the beginning of Gen VI. STABmons+ ignores that rule, however, which is akin to the megas reverse-transferring their new types (sort of.)

The Immortal can you give Shaymin access to Flying in regular STABmons please? AFAIK it worked last gen. Not sure what happened this time.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
ShayminL didn't get flying moves, because it can't get air slash, fly, etc. The Rotoms were given ghost moves because all of Rotom-N's Ghost moves, were allowed for the others.
According to Veekun: "Forms have different stats and can learn different moves. Moves are retained through form changes."
Meaning Air Slash does carry over normally. It's also how Skymin is able to learn Earth Power.


Sorry if this was already mentioned, but this guy gets Adaptability-boosted Doom Desires now. King Shield will buy you a turn or you can just get out of there and let something bulkier sponge attacks until DD hits. It's also cool to note that it can beat Pokemon that resist DD with Fighting STAB (Dialga, Mega Aggron, Heatran) or other coverage moves if something else shows up (Dark for Aegislash, Ground for Volcanion, etc.) Heatran does that too, but it is not hitting nearly as hard or fast.
 

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