STABmons Viability Ranking

[EV]

Borrowed from alexwolf 's OU thread, which borrowed from PK Gaming .

STABMONS VIABILITY RANKING
http://spo.ink/abn - Art by Sparkl3y ​

​

Welcome to the STABmons Viability Ranking! Here I've ranked viability into five categories from best to worst: S, A, B, C, and D.

In this thread you can discuss a Pokemon's ranking and if you think it should move up or drop down. If a Pokemon is not on the list, you can recommend it be added. Either way, please substantiate your claims when posting in this thread. Only well-thought arguments will be considered, so be prepared to back them up if questioned further.

Let's get to the ranks!

S rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are unmatched in the STABmons metagame. These Pokemon can sweep or wall large portions of the metagame on their own, and often in more than one capacity. With so few if any flaws holding them back they should always be considered over another Pokemon that performs in a similar role. These Pokemon define the metagame.

A rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are extremely potent in the STABmons metagame. These Pokemon can sweep or wall large portions of the metagame and have minor flaws that can be mitigated with the right support, if any. They can perform very well in more than one role or just excel in one so well they do it better than almost anything else. These Pokemon influence the metagame.

B rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are still very potent in the STABmons metagame. These Pokemon can sweep or wall some portions of the metagame but might have flaws that require more support. They can perform very well in one role, but may struggle in multiple capacities. They still have more positive traits than negative. These Pokemon are adaptable to the metagame.

C rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have some potency in the STABmons metagame. These Pokemon can threaten or check some portions of the metagame but often have large flaws that require more support. They often can only perform well in one role as multiple roles will expose their many flaws. They may have more negative traits than positive. These Pokemon have a hard time adapting with the metagame.

D rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have just enough potency to function in the STABmons metagame thanks to a small niche they hold. These Pokemon can't really threaten or check parts of the metagame outside their niche, or are so hindered in their role that another Pokemon almost always can do it better. Because of their flaws they may expose your team to unnecessary risk. These Pokemon rarely adapt with the metagame.

~S~
​

Reserved for Pokemon that are unmatched in the STABmons metagame. These Pokemon can sweep or wall large portions of the metagame on their own, and often in more than one capacity. With so few if any flaws holding them back they should always be considered over another Pokemon that performs in a similar role. These Pokemon define the metagame.

Darkrai

Landorus-T

Sableye

Scizor (Mega)

Thundurus-I

~A~
​

Reserved for Pokemon that are extremely potent in the STABmons metagame. These Pokemon can sweep or wall large portions of the metagame and have minor flaws that can be mitigated with the right support, if any. They can perform very well in more than one role or just excel in one so well they do it better than almost anything else. These Pokemon influence the metagame.

A+

Aegislash

Charizard (Mega-Y)

Gyarados (Mega)

Heatran

Kangaskhan

Stoutland

Terrakion

Tyranitar

A

Aerodactyl

Azumarill

Braviary

Chansey

Charizard (Mega-X)

Clefable

Ferrothorn

Gliscor

Meloetta

Quagsire

Scizor

Talonflame

Togekiss

Tyranitar (Mega)

A-

Diancie (Mega)

Ditto

Garchomp

Gengar

Gyarados

Latios

Porygon2

Sableye (mega)

Serperior

Skarmory

~B~
​

Reserved for Pokemon that are still very potent in the STABmons metagame. These Pokemon can sweep or wall some portions of the metagame but might have flaws that require more support. They can perform very well in one role, but may struggle in multiple capacities. They still have more positive traits than negative. These Pokemon are adaptable to the metagame.

B+

Blastoise (Mega)

Deoxys-D

Klefki

Latias (Mega)

Magnezone

#TheVoice

Sceptile (Mega)

Starmie

Swampert (Mega)

Thundurus-T

Ursaring

Weavile

B

Bisharp

Deoxys-S

Diancie

Empoleon

Excadrill

Jirachi

Kabutops

Mew

Rotom-H

Rotom-W

Scolipede

Slowbro

Slowking

Tangrowth

Tornadus-T

B-

Alakazam

Conkeldurr

Crawdaunt

Bibarel

Entei

Garchomp (Mega)

Gothitelle

Hippowdon

Hydreigon

Kyurem

Medicham (Mega)

Magnetric (Mega)

Politoed

Raikou

Snorlax

Yanmega

~C~
​

Reserved for Pokemon that have some potency in the STABmons metagame. These Pokemon can threaten or check some portions of the metagame but often have large flaws that require more support. They often can only perform well in one role as multiple roles will expose their many flaws. They may have more negative traits than positive. These Pokemon have a hard time adapting with the metagame.

C+

Absol (Mega)

Amoonguss

Bronzong

Celebi

Dragonite

Espeon

Forretress

Heracross

Heracross (Mega)

Infernape

Lucario

Mandibuzz

Suicune

Venusaur (Mega)

C

Aggron (Mega)

Alakazam (Mega)

Chesnaught

Dugtrio

Escavalier

Feraligatr

Gardevoir

Heliolisk

Houndoom (Mega)

Jellicent

Metagross

Shedinja

Whimsicott

Wobbuffet

C-

Chandelure

Cloyster

Cobalion

Breloom

Flareon

Furfrou

Gallade (Mega)

Krookodile

Mamoswine

Pyroar

Sawsbuck

Slurpuff

Staraptor

Volcarona

Zapdos

~D~
​

Reserved for Pokemon that have just enough potency to function in the STABmons metagame thanks to a small niche they hold. These Pokemon can't really threaten or check parts of the metagame outside their niche, or are so hindered in their role that another Pokemon almost always can do it better. Because of their flaws they may expose your team to unnecessary risk. These Pokemon rarely adapt with the metagame.

Blissey

Bouffalant

Camerupt (Mega)

Cinccino

Cofagrigus

Dragalge

Gourgeist-Super

Ninjask

Salamence

Swellow

~E~​

Everything else.

=+=+=+=+=+=​

Under debate:


Blacklisted:


Rules:

• Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" with no explanation will not be tolerated.
• No flaming and be respectful.
• Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"
• PKGaming is amazing. This is an undisputed fact.

 

[EV]

Movement as of 8/6

Mega Tyranitar: A+ --> S
Bibarel: A- --> B-
Chansey: A- --> A+
Vaporeon: N/A --> C+

Movement as of 8/11

Mega Absol: N/A --> C+
Weavile: N/A --> C+
Klefki: N/A --> D

Movement as of 9/10

Amoonguss: B --> A-
Slowking: C --> B
Landorus-T: A --> A+
Terrakion: C- --> B
Gliscor: C+ --> B
Jirachi: B --> A-
Darkrai: B+ --> B-
Thundurus-I: A --> A+
Keldeo: A- --> A
Kabutops: N/A --> C

Movement as of 9/12

Crobat: N/A --> D
Diancie: N/A --> C
Venusaur: N/A --> B
Landorus-I: A+ --> S
Magnezone: N/A --> B
Probopass: N/A --> D

Movement as of 9/19

Magnezone: B --> A-
Starmie: N/A --> B-
Greninja: B- --> B
Dugtrio: N/A --> B-
Gothitelle: N/A --> B-
Heracross: N/A --> C+
Heracross-Mega: N/A --> C+
Cinccino: N/A --> C+
Ursaring: A- --> B
Dragonite: N/A --> C-

Movement as of 9/27

Kyurem-Black: B --> A
Hydreigon: N/A --> B
Slowbro: N/A --> B (retroactively)

Movement as of 10/12

Thundurus: A+ --> S
Aerodactyl-Mega: B --> B+
Azumarill: A --> A+
Chesnaught: N/A --> C
Diancie: C --> B-
Dugtrio: B- --> C
Empoleon: B+ --> C+
Ferrothorn: B --> A-
Forretress: A --> B
Gengar: C --> B+
Gliscor: B --> A
Gyarados-Mega: N/A --> B
Klefki: D --> C
Medicham-Mega: N/A --> B-
Porygon 2: D --> B-
Shedinja: N/A --> C-
Tangrowth: C- --> B-
Terrakion: B --> A-
Ninjask: C- --> D
Absol-Mega: C+ --> B

Movement as of 11/22

Bronzong: C --> C-
Virizion: C+ --> C-
Cloyster: A --> B-
Greninja: B --> A-
Forretress: B --> C+
Raikou: N/A --> C
Zapdos: N/A --> C+
Gyarados-Mega: B --> A-
Gyarados: B- --> B+
Metagross: D --> C

Movement as of 11/28

Landorus-Therian: A+ --> S
Metagross (Mega): N/A --> A
Landorus: S --> A+
Braviary: C --> B
Tyranitar (Mega): S --> A+
Rotom-H: N/A --> B-
Garchomp (Mega): B+ --> B
Garchomp: B --> B+
Chansey: A+ --> A
Venusaur (Mega): A --> B-
Amoonguss: A- --> B
Espeon: B+ --> B
Gardevoir: B+ --> C
Jellicent: B --> C
Slurpuff: B --> C-
Venusaur: B --> D
Bibarel: B- --> C
Starmie: B- --> C+
Gourgeist-Super: C+ --> D
Sawsbuck: C+ --> C-
Flareon: C+ --> C-
Lopunny (Mega): N/A --> A+
Pidgeot (Mega): N/A --> C+
Slowbro (Mega): N/A --> B
Diancie (Mega): N/A --> B
Charizard (Mega X): A+ --> A
Scolipede: B+ --> B
Medicham (Mega): B- --> C
Medicham: C+ --> D

Movement as of 1/3

A ---> A+

A ---> A-

A- ---> A

B+ ---> A

B+ ---> B-

B ---> B+

Unranked ---> A- (Latias-Mega)

B ---> C

B- ---> B+

Unranked ---> B-

C+ ---> B

C ---> B

C ---> B+

D ---> C

A+ ---> A

A ---> A+

A ---> A+

B+ ---> B-

B ---> C+

B ---> A-

B ---> B-

B ---> B-

B- ---> C+

B- ---> C

C+ ---> B

C ---> B-

C- ---> Unranked

D ---> Unranked

D ---> Unranked

Movement as of 2/15

A --> A+

A+ --> A

A- --> A

N/A --> C

N/A --> C

A+ --> A-

A+ --> A

B+ --> A-

A- --> A

A- --> B+

B --> C+

B --> A-

B- --> B+

B- --> B

C+ --> Unranked

C+ --> Unranked

C --> Unranked

D --> Unranked

D --> Unranked

D --> Unranked

A- --> B+

A- --> B+

Movement as of 3/20

A+ -> S-

A- -> A

B -> A-

B- -> B+

C+ -> B

C+ -> D

C -> D

S -> S+

S -> S+

S -> S+

S -> S+

S -> S-

A+ -> S-

A -> A+

A -> A-

B+ -> A-

B -> C+

B -> B-

B- -> B+

B- -> B

C -> C+

C -> C+

C -> D

Movement as of 4/12

N/A -> A-

N/A -> B

N/A -> C

N/A -> C-

N/A -> B

N/A -> B-

N/A -> D

N/A -> C

N/A -> B-

N/A -> C

N/A -> B

N/A -> D

N/A -> C-

N/A -> C

N/A -> D

N/A -> B+

N/A -> C+

C -> B-

C+ -> B-

B+ -> A-

B -> B+

B- -> B

C -> B-

A+ -> S-

B- -> B

C- -> C+

C -> B

C -> B+

A- -> A

A -> A+

B+ -> A+

D -> C-

A- -> A

B- -> A-

B+ -> A-

C+ -> B-

C -> B

C+ -> B+

D -> C

C -> C+

C- -> C

D -> C-

A+ -> A

B -> C+

C+ -> C-

B -> C-

All of these -> Unranked

N/A -> C

N/A -> C+

(mega) N/A -> C-

N/A -> C-

N/A -> B-

N/A -> A-

N/A -> C-

N/A -> D

N/A -> C-

N/A -> C

C- -> D

C- -> C+

B- -> C+

A+ -> A

S- -> A+

A- -> A

A -> A+

Movement as of 4/27

S- -> S+

A+ -> S-

S+ -> S-

S- -> A+

B -> A

Movement as of 5/6

N/A -> C+

A+ -> S-

S- -> S+

Movement as of 6/1

C+ -> B

B -> B+

B+ -> B

D -> B-

N/A -> B-

A+ -> S

C -> B-

N/A -> B+

C- -> B

Movement as of 7/4

A -> S

A -> A+

N/A -> C-

B+ -> A-

B -> B+

B -> B+

B -> B+

B- -> B

B+ -> B

A -> A+

A- -> B+

C -> B-

B- -> B

 

[skies]

Aerodactyl for A Rank, this should be really obvious lol n__n. If I need to give an explanation I will but yeah... And Slurpuff to Δ Rank imo.

EDIT:
Might as well input reasoning anyways. Aerodactyl has access to Brave Bird and Head Smash now, along with Rock Head, it can also Mega Evolve to become insanely powerful, at the cost of nuking itself. It has a blazing fast Speed tier and a cool typing.

Slurpuff is a great Geomancy abuser thanks to Unburden and is quite a bit bulkier than any other Geomancy booster (because it can afford to invest entirely into its bulk) and has sick coverage in Psychic, Flamethrower, and Surf, while also gaining Moonblast thanks to STABmons.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Aerodactyl for A Rank, this should be really obvious lol n__n. If I need to give an explanation I will but yeah... And Slurpuff to Δ Rank imo.

EDIT:
Might as well input reasoning anyways. Aerodactyl has access to Brave Bird and Head Smash now, along with Rock Head, it can also Mega Evolve to become insanely powerful, at the cost of nuking itself. It has a blazing fast Speed tier and a cool typing.

Slurpuff is a great Geomancy abuser thanks to Unburden and is quite a bit bulkier than any other Geomancy booster (because it can afford to invest entirely into its bulk) and has sick coverage in Psychic, Flamethrower, and Surf, while also gaining Moonblast thanks to STABmons.

how does slurpuff easily adapt? imo siga rank. Als aero in no way shape or form defijes the meagame. it's beta imo. Heatran to alpha because it's always been redic potent, mabe alpha but prob beta mega venu befause how potent it is

 

[Kit Kasai]

Quagsire for B or Delta rank.

Not much to say here, it walls the plethora of boosting physical attackers seen here

 

[aesf]

Jellicent for B rank

Basically it hard-walls Bibarel, Keldeo, and pretty much all the espeeders in the metagame (I run a balloon on mine just for an emergency button for diggersby lol). It has access to reliable recovery, will-o-wisp, the 100% burn chance move (aka scald), and even subsplit if you really felt like it. It deals with stuff like scizor, heatran, Lando, and even Talonflame to an extent.

 

[EV]

Unfixable I'm starting Aerodactyl in Beta and leaving Slurpuff up for more discussion. Slurpuff has a niche over other Fairies thanks to Unburden, but I don't know if that niche is Delta worthy. I'm leaning toward Sigma.

Kit Kasai I put Quagsire in Beta because it is a great check to all the setup sweepers.

Thisisafake name I put Jellicent in Beta since its typing and ability make it a cold stop to a lot of threats. It can't take an Ursaring Crunch and WoW back, however, so if I split the ranks down the road, it will probably be B-.

Monte Cristo I'm thinking we can start Mega Venusaur in Beta.

 

[ellipse]

Diggersby for A rank.
Literally Ursaring but without the timer, and is actually able to run sets other than the revenge killing one. Each of its three sets (Revenge killer, SS, BD) are all extremely threatening individually, and having access to a secondary STAB in EQ allows to beat most of espeed's switch-ins
EDIT: Also has access to u-turn allowing it to pivot out on its potential counters, and wild charge which lets it beat skarm.

• 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Sableye: 267-315 (87.8 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
  
• 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 183-216 (60.1 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Sableye doesn't enjoy switching in.

Chansey for AT LEAST B rank
Hard walls the special portion of the tier, transform for countersweeps, rapid spin, heal bell, stealth rock, and wish support. What else is there really to say about it? Oh and an extremely nasty core when paired with...

Skarmory for B rank
Able to wall the majority of the physical portion of the tier, losing only to the fires. Typing allows it to be one of the few TRUE counters to diggersby, access to whirlwind allows it stop set-up sweepers, and reliable recovery allows it to hang around.

Cloyster for B rank
Fuck. Priority. King's Rock.

Aegislash for Delta Rank
After a single shift gear, it becomes nigh-unstoppable, and it can even run special and mixed sets that still are devastating. Lower rank however because of low original speed, often a poor matchup against Sableye, and being stopped by many common walls regardless of its set

Kangaskhan for B rank
Scrappy belly drum accompanied by good speed and bulk, extremespeed, and the flawless neutral coverage of fighting-normal (*coughshedinjacough*), make it an extremely threatening mon.

Espeon for delta rank
Smash-eon is still a great set & can sweep on short notice, but those setup opportunities are few and far between, and even then it is fairly easily revenged.

 

[skies]

how does slurpuff easily adapt? imo siga rank. Als aero in no way shape or form defijes the meagame. it's beta imo. Heatran to alpha because it's always been redic potent, mabe alpha but prob beta mega venu befause how potent it is

Unfixable I'm starting Aerodactyl in Beta and leaving Slurpuff up for more discussion. Slurpuff has a niche over other Fairies thanks to Unburden, but I don't know if that niche is Delta worthy. I'm leaning toward Sigma.

Kit Kasai I put Quagsire in Beta because it is a great check to all the setup sweepers.

Thisisafake name I put Jellicent in Beta since its typing and ability make it a cold stop to a lot of threats. It can't take an Ursaring Crunch and WoW back, however, so if I split the ranks down the road, it will probably be B-.

Monte Cristo I'm thinking we can start Mega Venusaur in Beta.

Oh yeah pardon me, I completely messed that up, I wanted Aerodactyl in B Rank not A lol. Anyways: Slurpuff. Slurpuff has this advantage:

• 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 96-114 (26 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
• 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 192-226 (52.1 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This combination doesn't kill it which is pretty nice, and it has better coverage than its competition for the most part. Here's the definition:
"Reserved for Pokemon that are still very potent in the STABmons metagame. These Pokemon can sweep or wall some portions of the metagame but might have flaws that require more support. They can perform very well in one role, but may struggle in multiple capacities. They still have more positive traits than negative. These Pokemon are adaptable to the metagame."
Slurpuff is very potent and can sweep portions of the metagame. It has its flaws, like having a bit hard time to set up and being walled by certain Pokemon by not running _____. Slurpuff does perform well in an offensive role, but that's it really. It has a lot of positive traits and a few negative ones. I'm still arguing for Delta.

 

[EV]

Ellipse I updated all except Diggers, who I want to have a larger conversation about.
While Diggersby is good, really good, and it has Ground STAB which fucks with King's Shield Heatran, I'm not quite convinced it's Alpha rank just yet. Prankster Sableye can burn it, Skarmory shuts it down, and Aegislash can even run Air Balloon to wall it as it sets up (done it myself.) However, it is right on the edge so I'm open to hearing what else you have to say.

Unfixable Yeah Delta does sound good for Slurpuff.

Also, I added +, regular, and - to each rank besides Alpha and Omega. Please submit accordingly.

 

[Adonzo]

This seems like a good time to bring this up:

Stoutland vs Kangaskhan, and nominating Stoutland for Beta or Beta+ or just higher than Kanga

I've never really seen the appeal of Kanga with Stoutland available. Kanga is faster, but you're spamming priority most of the time. Kanga has a wider movepool, but Scrappy Normal + Fighting is perfect coverage anyways and they both boast it. Kanga is very slightly bulkier, 81,144 vs. 80,784 on 252/0 spreads, but that is literally a 1% difference.

Kanga's got a few advantages but they don't really make much of a difference. Meanwhile, Stoutland's base Attack is 15 points higher. On fully invested Adamant spreads, 350 Attack vs. 317, Stoutland hits 10% harder, which I feel is a much more significant advantage than anything Kanga brings.

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Stoutland Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 153-181 (44.8 - 53%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Kangaskhan Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 139-165 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Kanga may have won out last gen when Stoutland only had base 100 Attack, but this gen it doesn't belong in any rank lower than Kanga and should be higher. Indeed, Kanga I feel should drop due to it being outclassed.

EDIT: on a similar note, I believe Togekiss should be ranked higher than Gardevoir due to being the superior Geomancer, but won't go into detail for now

EDIT2: Also, nominating Forretress for Beta or even Beta+. You will not find more versatile pivot. Bulk, slow STAB u-turn, King's Shield, Rapid Spin, all 4 hazards, reliable recovery, Gyro Ball to nuke Geomancers, Powder to screw over Fire-types... Forretress is seriously one of the best mons in the meta.

 

[xJownage]

Toge for B+ Rank. if you try to say mega charizard X is better than Toge.....this thing can clean teams with a geomancy at a moments notice due to oblivion wing, and the great coverage provided by fire / fighting / flying allow it to clean teams without the ability to phase it.

Mega charizard X to B Rank. its ohkod by about half the meta, and topsy turvy and priority destroy it.

Ursaring to B Rank.
Its a great poke, but its bad speed and lack of bulk make it really only able to fake out + espeed spam with guts. Why is this ahead of kanga again?

Meloetta for B Rank. it is a great special tank or sweeper and can really hold its own when coupled with a physical wall like empoleon. This is one of the few pokes completely and utterly walled by sableye which is really useful against transform chansey.

A lot of these rankings need work....but i do like the new format.

 

[EV]

A lot of these rankings need work....but i do like the new format.

I am a piece of work ;.;

I'm confused about Chard X. What half of the meta OHKOs it exactly? And last I checked it's more famous for spamming V-Create, so Topsy Turvy would help it, not destroy it. Also, it's not weak to priority, so how does that destroy it, too? The fact that it can take out Heatran reliably, one of the best walls in the metagame, makes it pretty dangerous. It doesn't fear burn or Knock Off to an extent, and can even run mixed or bulky sets with WoW and Roost.

Ursaring should drop, I agree. It's easy to wear down and its coverage consists of two moves since it always runs Fake Out+ESpeed, so it has to choose between Play Rough, Close Combat, Crunch, and Earthquake.

Adonzo I had Stoutland lower because even with Scrappy Normal+Fighting coverage, it can't rely on Earthquake to bypass King's Shield unlike Kanga. If it gets up to +6, I guess it doesn't mind a -2 drop at that point, however. I guess I can find a place for it in Beta.

While I do agree that Forretress is a fantastic pivot and supporter, I had it lower because of the prevalence of good Fire-types. After some more thought, though, I do think it should be in Beta because it still performs well with hazard support (especially Sticky Web in a metagame full of Speed boosters), spinning, and momentum with U-turn.

 

[skies]

~Α~
alpha rank​

fine

~Β~
beta rank​

Β+

Heatran B+ ----> A
Heatran is a very influential and versatile Pokemon. I'm sure many of you know of Heatran, especially with sets like feautring Doom Desire. Its typing, stats, versatility, and influence is really amazing and King's Shield just pushes it over the top in my opinion. Heatran can also run offensive sets, those I especially like. And, a very influential player himself, w0rd, even runs Shift Gear Heatran and makes it work! I'm sure many STABmons players can agree with this change honestly, and I'd like to see it happen.

Β

Meloetta B ----> B+
Meloetta is, to put it bluntly, really scary. Shell Smash sets w/ Stored Power and Boomburst can plow down unprepared teams, or teams that have had Sableye removed. It's really good bulk enables it the freedom to setup as well and also allows it to pull off defensive sets (although I find it a waste to throughout all that offensive potential!) Seriously, this is one of the very few Pokemon that truly scares me into playing extremely carefully around when I see it in team preview. However, it has an unfortunate weakness to Dark-type moves and doesn't always get time to set up, and its physical bulk sucks. But, overall, it deserves B+ imo.

Quagsire B ----> B+
Quagsire walls so much shit it's not even funny. It excels at stopping a plethora of setup sweepers courtesy of Unaware and has an excellent typing to boot. It has reliable recovery, which is great for walls, and it can set Spikes on top of this. It is really amazing at putting a stop to popular threats like Diggersby and Mega Scizor, and even does great against Pokemon that don't boost! Its sole weakness is only commonly used by Mega Venusaur, and it won't even stay in on it. The fact remains that most setup sweepers do not carry a super effective Grass-type coverage move and this gives it an extremely powerful virtue. It has some flaws, but its pros outweigh all of these flaws, thus, I believe Quagsire should move up a rank.

Skarmory B ----> B+
Skarmory is a great physical wall because of its typing, access to reliable recovery, and shit it checks. It's one of the very few true Diggersby counters out there, which is invaluable really. King's Shield and Roost allow it to check so many Pokemon like the aforementioned Diggersby and practically all physical attackers. It can also do other things such as set hazards or Defog. It's very versatile, bulky, and has a great typing for the icing on the cake. For these reasons, I feel as if Skarmory should move up a rank.

Ursaring B ----> B-
Ursaring is a good Pokemon, don't get me wrong, it's just not... amazing. It gets worn down extremely easily and is often worse than other Extreme Speed abusers like Diggersby and Stoutland, for example. It has a sort of 'timer' that is easily taken advantage of, and because it lacks Scrappy, it is easy to beat with Ghost-types, which is very unfortunate. It also cannot pull off Rapid Spin like Kangaskhan and Stoutland, it doesn't have STAB Earthquake like Diggersby, it's too slow for Shell Smash, etc. Summary: it's outclassed and should really move down.

Β-

Azumarill B- ----> B
Azumarill is better than given credit for, really. Its Belly Drum sets are pretty scary and its phenomenal typing, and Huge Power, allow it to set up at good times. Water Shuriken breaks Substitute, which is always appreciated, and Play Rough gets great neutral coverage. Extreme Speed is a great niche for it and gives it a powerful priority. Although some might say it is fairly useless because it lacks STAB, don't forget that Talonflame commonly runs Extreme Speed as well, so this should be accounted for. Azumarill's Extreme Speed is even more powerful than Talonflame's as well. Overall, it's a very good Pokemon that is worthy of a move up in my opinion.

Jellicent B- ----> Δ+ / Δ
TEG and I discussed this on Showdown of why Jellicent was so high up. His reasoning was that it checked Bibarel, Keldeo, and Diggersby. And, while these are extremely valid points, I brought up that Sableye checks Diggersby and Bibarel, while Azumarill and Mega Venusaur check Keldeo, while these Pokemon are also not set up on and just sitting weight. All Jellicent can do is quickly check them, which can be helpful, but I'd prefer using something better to utilize like Sableye for instance. For these reasons, I'm suggesting Jellicent to move down one or two ranks.

~Δ~
delta rank​

Δ+
fine

Δ

Scolipede Δ ----> Δ+
Scolipede is very threatening. The instant Speed boosts from Speed Boost allows it to become very quick very fast. Its Coil sets are scary truly, as they make Scolipede powerful, fast, and bulky, while also allowing it to freely spam Megahorn. Scolipede can even pull off some quick passes should the situation arise. The main issue with Scolipede is with all the priority flying around, its Speed isn't always that helpful, and with Sableye on any good team, it can be halted and crippled instantly. However, it is still a powerhouse in itself but has notable flaws holding it back from moving up any further, but it still deserves a move up.

Δ-

Celebi Δ- ----> Δ
Celebi is an awesome Pokemon, as people are beginning to realize. It checks a ton of Pokemon and is very bulky. It has a lot of resistances as well and reliable recovery, along with momentum vie U-turn or Baton Pass. It is a great utility check to many popular threats. However, Celebi has a ton of weaknesses, and it isn't extremely powerful by any means. It does have a cool ability, but it is kind of useless when it is on the battle field. Celebi is by no means a bad Pokemon, and it's by no means a phenomenal one, but, I feel it does need to move up a rank.

~Σ~
sigma rank​

Σ+
fine
Σ
fine

Σ-
fine

~Ω~
omega rank​

Pyroar Ω ----> Σ-
Pyroar seems like shitty gimmick really, with bad stats everywhere but Speed and Special Attack, and compared to all the other Normal-types, like Meloetta for example, it doesn't seem like it has anything going for it. However, it's the fastest Shell Smash abuser that focuses on Special Attacking prowess, the other closest one being Meloetta. Because it is faster, this in itself creates a niche. Plus, Pyroar has STAB Blue Flare versus STAB Stored Power, and Blue Flare gets arguably better coverage. However, Pyroar is weak to Stealth Rock, has horrible bulk, and its Special Attack is frankly not super high. Overall, though, it has more of a niche than shit like Malamar.

I have more but I'll do that later :p.

 

[skies]

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Frustration vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 256-303 (63.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery(256, 259, 262, 265, 268, 271, 274, 277, 280, 283, 286, 289, 292, 295, 298, 303)

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Frustration vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 249-294 (61.6 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(249, 252, 255, 258, 261, 264, 267, 270, 273, 276, 279, 282, 285, 288, 291, 294)

Azumarill, which I never heard being classified as "frail" is a whopping 3,6% bulkier than Meloetta, so, okay that it has that ridiculous 128 SpDef which makes the Def pale in comparison, okay that psychologically 77<<80, okay that she looks like a crystal doll and has a feminine aspect, but its bulk is far from horrible. Period.

Arceus is irrelevant >.>, firstly, and that difference is honestly so small, maybe frail wasn't complete correct.
Now, here's a relevant calc:
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 274-324 (67.8 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 265-313 (65.5 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Meloetta Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Meloetta: 201-237 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 68.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Meloetta Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 297-351 (73.5 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This matters a LOT. It may have a high HP, but its Defenses are not on par with some higher up stuff, to put it bluntly.

 

[EV]

My replies:

Heatran B+ ----> A
Alpha is exclusive territory. The cream of the crop. The best at what they do. Sableye is there because it shuts down almost every physical attacker and setup sweeper in a very offensive metagame. Diggersby is there because it is the best revenge killer bar none and has very few true checks and counters. Should Heatran be there, too? It can be a bulky supporter, wall, or potential sweeper; it has some of the best resists and immunities in the game; and it must be considered when teambuilding. Sounds like Alpha material to me after all. Approved.

Meloetta B ----> B+
If Melo runs Smash+3 attacks, it often carries Boomburst, Stored Power/Psystrike, and coverage like Judgment, Shadow Ball, or Dazzling Gleam. I still think it's outclassed by Espeon in this role because of Magic Bounce blocking Topsy Turvy (though Parting Shot phazes Espeon out) and its Speed is considerably lower if it needs to attack pre-Smash. STAB Boomburst gives it the edge it needs, however, plus its respectable bulk. This is why Melo has taken to some more supportive roles but can still hit hard. I'm going to leave it in neutral Beta for now because it still struggles as a setup sweeper and without priority, it can't hit Sableye before it's crippled (unlike Talonflame or Scizor.)

Quagsire B ----> B+
I had Quag in neutral Beta because even though it's an awesome Check to setup with Unaware, it can't quite sponge the stronger special hits coming off Zard-Y, Togekiss, Thundurus, etc who smack it with Oblivion Wing for a 2HKO (or even Solar Beam in Zard's case.) It checks a lot, don't get me wrong, and when it comes to walling physical setup it's almost unrivaled, but I just don't think it's quite Beta+ material. Plus, Diggersby can 2HKO with LO Earthquake, so Quag is not always safe switching into it.

Skarmory B ----> B+
Agreed.

Ursaring B ----> B-
Sigh. I guess I'm just going to have to accept that Ursaring isn't the best bear at the circus anymore. Approved.

Azumarill B- ----> B
Yes.

Jellicent B- ----> Δ+ / Δ
Back to Delta for you, King Jelly.

​

Scolipede Δ ----> Δ+
Delta+ is as far as it should go.

Celebi Δ- ----> Δ
I think its versatility alone is enough to nudge it up a notch. Agreed.

​

Pyroar Ω ----> Σ-
I think I mentioned this to someone already, and it's not huge or anything, but it has Unnerve to stop Sitrus Berry from activating on Belly Drummers, but it dies to them anyway. I guess if you wanted to run Lovely Kiss before a Smash it could halt Lum, too.

 

[Adonzo]

Nevermind Unnerve - Shell Smash Pyroars should run mixed Moxie with Extreme Speed. Special kills still activate Moxie, and at +1 or +2 (err... +3 / +4) its fast STAB Extreme Speed should effectively ward off revenge killers.

 

[EV]

It has been a little while since Diance and Darkrai showed up. Any verdicts on them yet? I've seen Darkrai used to good effect as a Sableye-esque disruptor with great momentum and a strong offensive presence. Diance is probably more fitted for a defensive and supportive set since base 50 Speed is really low even for Geomancy and I don't think it has the right tools to pull off a boosting set, also considering its Attack/Special Attack are only 100 each. Stealth Rock, Moonlight, Diamond Storm/Power Gem, Play Rough/Moonblast sounds all right.

Any other Pokes that need a nudge here or there? Has Diamond Storm added more viability to Terrakion or other physical Rock-types not named Tyranitar? Has Inner Focus Lucario caught on yet? Is the Competitve Wigglytuff from the "Silly Things You've Seen" thread worthy of Omega?

Do share.

 

[skies]

Unranked ----> B / B+
Darkrai is very powerful and fast, it is also a great disruptor with Parting Shot, a fast Topsy-turvy, or just a plain old Dark Void! Darkrai is also not as frail as made out to be, but it's also not bulky at all. It has nice coverage with moves like Dark Pulse, Focus Blast, and Thunderbolt and is quite good. I think what really holds it back is its bulk and competition from Sableye as a disruptor and from Greninja as an all-out attacker, however, Darkrai is still very powerful and deserves either B or B+. I'm leaning towards B, honestly, because it really sucks at taking priority, like all forms of them except the super rare Shadow Sneak. And it lacks a boosting move outside of Nasty Plot which pales in comparison to Shell Smash, and this in itself isn't //horrible// but it kinda sucks.

Another thing I've been playing around with and have seen an influx in usage of Escavalier, so I make this nomination:

Ω ----> Σ- / Σ
Escavalier is quite strong, and thanks to its Speed, it almost always has the most powerful Gyro Ball achievable. Plus, it can run Bullet Punch and Attack Order, two powerful moves it now gains. It also has reliable recovery in Heal Order and a large quantity of bulk and Attack. My main gripe with it is that it is piss-poor slow and lacks real coverage, along with being set up on by Fire-types (which is important) and not being able to use Heal Order with Assault Vest. But, really, it doesn't belong with niche Pokemon like Furfrou, but more so up in Σ with Braviary really, but I could see Σ- working as well. Either way, I think Escavalier needs to be bumped up.

 

[xJownage]

Diancie struggles in stabmons for just the obvious: Rock's awful defensive typing. Really outclassed by regirock since everything is physical in this meta, and even then its really just outclassed offensively by aerodactyl. I am thinking somewhere in the sigma rank. Its not awful, its just not good either, and is outclassed. Sigma

Darkrai is meh, probably somewhere in the Delta rank. It has okay offensive presence but the only reason its good - dark void - is usable by any other dark type, and its lack of bulk means its not doing anything anytime fast. Delta+ comes to mind due to it being brutally outclassed by sableye; besides attacking sableye does everything it does better. This is stabmons, unboosted 135 base SPA doesn't hit that hard from it. It has a niche in being able to hit reasonably hard, unlike sableye, but there are better pokemon to be left to that role.

Also I do not see why megadactyl is so low. Aerodactyl, on my teams, often mega evolves to turn from a suicide lead to a terrorist. Its tough claws head smash has a base power of NEAR 300, coming off of a very good base 135 attack stat. It is very suicidal, but can dent some of the premier walls used in stabmons and CAN OHKO SABLEYE AFTER ROCKS. To me this is one of the reasons aerodactyl is so good, unboosted if the opponent has a switch-in it doesn't hit all that hard, but if it mega evolves it just makes things explode.
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 288-340 (94.7 - 111.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Can I ask why Lando-I is so high? it didn't really gain much for the moment, its best boosting move is calm mind, and while oblivion wing is cool and all for its low HP especially, its OHKO'd by practically everything with offensive presence. It is also beaten by anything that resists flying and it can't ohko or is faster, since its special attack stat isin't high enough to really destroy tanks and avoid an OHKO. Commonly used special tanks such as meloetta beat up on it pretty well. I can understand it being just Beta, but i struggle with beta+

 

[Monte Cristo]

Diancie struggles in stabmons for just the obvious: Rock's awful defensive typing. Really outclassed by regirock since everything is physical in this meta, and even then its really just outclassed offensively by aerodactyl. I am thinking somewhere in the sigma rank. Its not awful, its just not good either, and is outclassed. Sigma

Darkrai is meh, probably somewhere in the Delta rank. It has okay offensive presence but the only reason its good - dark void - is usable by any other dark type, and its lack of bulk means its not doing anything anytime fast. Delta+ comes to mind due to it being brutally outclassed by sableye; besides attacking sableye does everything it does better. This is stabmons, unboosted 135 base SPA doesn't hit that hard from it. It has a niche in being able to hit reasonably hard, unlike sableye, but there are better pokemon to be left to that role.

Also I do not see why megadactyl is so low. Aerodactyl, on my teams, often mega evolves to turn from a suicide lead to a terrorist. Its tough claws head smash has a base power of NEAR 300, coming off of a very good base 135 attack stat. It is very suicidal, but can dent some of the premier walls used in stabmons and CAN OHKO SABLEYE AFTER ROCKS. To me this is one of the reasons aerodactyl is so good, unboosted if the opponent has a switch-in it doesn't hit all that hard, but if it mega evolves it just makes things explode.
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 288-340 (94.7 - 111.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Can I ask why Lando-I is so high? it didn't really gain much for the moment, its best boosting move is calm mind, and while oblivion wing is cool and all for its low HP especially, its OHKO'd by practically everything with offensive presence. It is also beaten by anything that resists flying and it can't ohko or is faster, since its special attack stat isin't high enough to really destroy tanks and avoid an OHKO. Commonly used special tanks such as meloetta beat up on it pretty well. I can understand it being just Beta, but i struggle with beta+

unboosted 135 base SPA doesn't hit that hard from it.

coming off of a very good base 135 attack stat.

sensing a little bias here

plus it just kills itself making it a lot less useful. Also Sableye isn't that bulky without a priority burn activated on it's side if you haven't noticed, it's pretty frail. Not being able to secure an OHKO on it w/o SR just makes it less appealing.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 107-126 (25.4 - 30%) -- 32.3% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[xJownage]

sensing a little bias here

plus it just kills itself making it a lot less useful. Also Sableye isn't that bulky without a priority burn activated on it's side if you haven't noticed, it's pretty frail. Not being able to secure an OHKO on it w/o SR just makes it less appealing.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 107-126 (25.4 - 30%) -- 32.3% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Shouldve been more specific: Unboosted DARK TYPE 135 special attack doesn't hit that hard. It's best move is night daze, I believe. Dark just isin't an amazing type for dark types as the power of its moves just isin't enough to OHKO neutral targets on most pokes, similar to ghost (without amazing coverage).

While Sableye isin't very bulky, invested its bulky enough to beat some unboosted stuff in this metagame (many of the great pokes don't have really high attack stats. MANY, NOT even close to all) with priority recovery and burn, as well as topsy. You are trying to argue that Sableye is frail against Darkrai though, and Sableye with defensive investment is a lot more bulky than unboosted Darkrai. Darkrai also has common weaknesses that Sableye does not share and has nearly no bulk to try to be used as a pivot, thus being outclassed.

Meanwhile, tough claws boosted invested 135 attack on a poke with much stronger attacks makes a difference. Aerodactyl's head smash comes out at roughly 297.5 base power, where Darkrai's night daze comes out at a measly 127.5 by comparison. Sure the base stat is the same, but what I am saying is that there can be a strong base 135 attack stat and a weak(er) base 135 attack stat. My main point is that Darkrai is outclassed, while Aerodactyl's high powered stabs make it get a lot more out of its base 135.

Yes there are a few select pokes that can potentially wall Mega Aerodactyl, but arguing that something can wall it doesn't make it bad.
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 134-158 (34 - 40.1%) -- 93.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Definitely dents it pretty well, especially FOR A SUICIDE LEAD. Remember as well that while Sableye is somewhat frail, 304 HP / 273 Defense isin't that easy to OHKO. Adamant Life Orb Diggersby does 78-92 against it, and outdamaging that thing soundly is very good.

 

[EV]

xJownage I have Mega Aero lower than regular Aero for a number of reasons. 1) Since Aero rarely sets up, it can run more viable sets than its Mega form like Banded, Scarfed, and Life Orb, 2) Regular Aero is still a deadly wallbreaker, and its Choice Banded sets hit nearly as hard without the massive recoil:
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 138-163 (35 - 41.3%) -- 76.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 147-173 (37.3 - 43.9%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(It's only slightly stronger with the trade-off of killing itself with recoil)

The advantage Mega has over regular is it can switch attacks, but that advantage is lost if regular Aero runs Life Orb.

A lower ranking isn't always the case with mega forms, if anything it's more the exception than the rule, as we can see with Mega Garchomp, Mega Tyranitar, the Mega Charizards, Mega Venusaur, and Mega Mawile.

For example, Mega Garchomp has access to two good boosting moves (Dragon Dance or Swords Dance), plus the added bulk makes it easier to set up (though as we know setting up is risky until Sableye is gone). Its mixed attacking stats are also helpful in Mega form when trying to bypass dedicated physical walls.

Mega Venusaur sheds its Ice and Fire weakness and has superb defenses, which aren't as reliant on an item unlike attacking stats are, especially considering it has recovery. The increase to Special Attack is only a bonus.

These megas get better because they're clearly stronger, bulkier, and more versatile. Aero loses that versatility when it mega evolves: it can still be matched in power as its regular form and it doesn't offer enough in return for the use of its item slot.
--

Regarding Darkrai and Diance, I'll probably rank Darkia in high Delta for now. I don't think it has the right tools to excel better than who it competes with the most: Sableye. It has access to two good attacks with Night Daze and Focus Blast, plus Parting Shot makes it a nice offensive pivot, which does set it apart from Sableye, but then it starts to compete with Greninja, who is faster and has the benefit of the very strong secondary STAB move Water Spout.

It's in one of those Jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none positions. Good at a few things, but not great and still outclassed.

Oh, almost forgot, I'm not ranking Diance because I don't think it has any niche right now. This may change.

 

[Adonzo]

Regarding Darkrai and Diance, I'll probably rank Darkia in high Delta for now. I don't think it has the right tools to excel better than who it competes with the most: Sableye. It has access to two good attacks with Night Daze and Focus Blast, plus Parting Shot makes it a nice offensive pivot, which does set it apart from Sableye, but then it starts to compete with Greninja, who is faster and has the benefit of the very strong secondary STAB move Water Spout.

125 > 122

And honestly, I've never looked at Darkrai, Greninja, or Weavile, who also fits in this group, as being in competition with Sableye. They are so much more offensive that they fill very different roles.

EDIT:

Can I ask why Lando-I is so high? it didn't really gain much for the moment, its best boosting move is calm mind, and while oblivion wing is cool and all for its low HP especially, its OHKO'd by practically everything with offensive presence. It is also beaten by anything that resists flying and it can't ohko or is faster, since its special attack stat isin't high enough to really destroy tanks and avoid an OHKO. Commonly used special tanks such as meloetta beat up on it pretty well. I can understand it being just Beta, but i struggle with beta+

I thought Landorus-I's big pick up wasn't Oblivion Wing (though that's always cool) but rather Sheer Force Hurricane?

 

[EV]

125 > 122

And honestly, I've never looked at Darkrai, Greninja, or Weavile, who also fits in this group, as being in competition with Sableye. They are so much more offensive that they fill very different roles.

Whoops.

Well I meant that Darkrai competes with Sableye as a Dark Void/Parting Shot/Topsy Turvy user and with Greninja as a fast attacker (because Greninja has access to Water, too, and Protean is a good ability). Even if you haven't looked at Darkrai this way, it doesn't mean others haven't, which is why I made the distinction that it shouldn't be doing that role.