Ladder STABmons [OMotM November]

drampa's grandpa

cannonball
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http://pastebin.com/7s4C3mev

I'm trying to compile a list of good moves for each type. I'd write more on this now but I'm dead tired (I type those words way too often on here) and I would make no sense. Leave comments and shizzle. It's intended as a resource for players who don't know the meta very well, so they can choose the best moves possible.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
If this is for new players, dividing the moves into Physical and Special categories would be helpful, that way a player looking for the strongest physical Bug move can see Megahorn is the best option. Follow up with a few alternatives like the more reliable Attack Order and multi-hitting Pin Missile.

Physical
If you want pure, unadulterated power: Megahorn (Acc? BP?)
If you want reliability: Attack Order
If you want multi-hit/Technician boosted: Pin Missile
If you want a unique effect: U-turn [switches user]

Special
If you want pure, unadulterated power: Bug Buzz
If you want reliability: Bug Buzz

Etc
 

baconbagon

free stabmons
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I had a look and noticed these things

I'm not sure about Volt Tackle and Sweet Kiss being particularly useful
I don't think Thunder Wave has a real niche over Nuzzle
Power Whip is superior to Wood Hammer under most circumstances
Normal-types use Glare often
Poison-types having Toxic Spikes is pretty big
Psychic-types can run Psycho Boost

Good read though, and feel free to correct me everyone
 
I took a crack at organizing this moves list and paring down some of the less useful options, like manual weather, and adding things like glare. Any feedback is welcome. I split up status moves into setup, recovery, and utility, since those are pretty different. There are some edge cases that I'm not really sure about, like Iron Head, Magnet Rise, and Circle Throw. I could list them for completeness, but they also clutter the list a bit.

I can put this in post form once I get some feedback.

http://pastebin.com/jVJT25nc
 
I took a crack at organizing this moves list and paring down some of the less useful options, like manual weather, and adding things like glare. Any feedback is welcome. I split up status moves into setup, recovery, and utility, since those are pretty different. There are some edge cases that I'm not really sure about, like Iron Head, Magnet Rise, and Circle Throw. I could list them for completeness, but they also clutter the list a bit.

I can put this in post form once I get some feedback.

http://pastebin.com/jVJT25nc
most of this looks good but I think there are a few errors with regards to move data; namely, Draco Meteor has 130 power and 90% accuracy, Dragon Claw has 80 power, Magma Storm has 100 power, Oblivion Wing has 80 power, Head Smash has 80% accuracy and 50% recoil, Rock Blast has 90% accuracy, Flash Cannon has a 10% chance to lower Special Defense rather than 30%, and Gear Grind has 85% accuracy. it's possible there's more stuff I missed too since I only briefly skimmed over a lot of the additional effect data

also Belly Drum is listed as "Belly Drump" but that's easy enough to fix when you put it in post form, I only pointed it out because I found it humorous
 

drampa's grandpa

cannonball
is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
most of this looks good but I think there are a few errors with regards to move data; namely, Draco Meteor has 130 power and 90% accuracy, Dragon Claw has 80 power, Magma Storm has 100 power, Oblivion Wing has 80 power, Head Smash has 80% accuracy and 50% recoil, Rock Blast has 90% accuracy, Flash Cannon has a 10% chance to lower Special Defense rather than 30%, and Gear Grind has 85% accuracy. it's possible there's more stuff I missed too since I only briefly skimmed over a lot of the additional effect data

also Belly Drum is listed as "Belly Drump" but that's easy enough to fix when you put it in post form, I only pointed it out because I found it humorous
Also Gunk shot has 80% accuracy.

Moves that can probably go: Wood Hammer, Meteor Mash, Fiery Dance, Flare Blitz, Electrify (is this actually good on anything besides Jolteon anyway?)

EDIT: I can't think of anything that actually runs Lava Plume tbh. What needs the extra PP? I'd keep Drain Punch, Scald is a bit niche (If you don't have Scald definitely don't have Lava Plume, things actually run Scald). Idk about the others.
 
Last edited:
I fixed those issues. I went on autopilot pretty hard when I was doing this (typing /100 for acc gets to be a habit), so I'm sure there are more typos.

I think meteor mash and fiery dance actually have merit. Meteor is marginally weaker than gear grind but marginally more accurate, and getting +1 atk for free on something like Excadrill can be game over. It also takes less helmet/barbs damage since it only makes contact once. Fiery Dance + Doom Desire heatran is also kinda OK. I was pretty on the fence about it, but I took it out.

I'm partial to keeping electrify, since it's a pretty obscure move that people don't think about in normal play but is actually relevant in STABmons. If this list is meant for beginners, then I think it's worthwhile to keep. I think it's a better candidate than Magnet Rise, which is only used by Klefki.

I'm also on the fence about Drain Punch, Circle Throw, Gastro Acid, Clear Smog, Aqua Jet, Scald, Lava Plume, and a bunch of the psychic status moves like heart swap and psycho shift that are cool but never get used.
 
I know I got put in charge of this thread alongside ellipse and betathunder but I don't think I can move this post to the #2 or #3 slot in this thread or edit the stuff that's already there. If I'm supposed to have those privileges, it would be nice if that were updated. If not then I'll need help if people want this moved up. Also if someone knows how to get BBCode
or [pre] tags to work on this site, that would be wonderful. And if someone knows where to get the images for the type labels and move categories, that would be wonderful as well (assuming I can use the table format). Otherwise I'm going to stick to a big code block, since that's the only other way to format this stuff in a table-like way. Hand spacing everything was painful, but I did it. If there are still issues with the list or moves you'd like added, moved, removed, or specified in more detail, please let me know.

Moves I'm on the fence about and would like feedback on in no particular order:
Scald - outclassed by Steam but some people stand by it for the PP and acc
Lava Plume - outclassed by searing shot
Iron Head - outclassed by Meteor and Gear Grind unless you're Jirachi
Waterfall - outclassed by crabhammer unless you can't deal with 90 acc
Magnet Rise - only used by klefki, which isn't even Electric
Aqua Jet - generally worse than shuriken
Drain Punch - nothing uses this
Circle Throw - nothing uses this
Counter - no fighting types use this
Gastro Acid - theoretically good with tspikes, but pretty useless in practice
Clear Smog - special attack or utility?
Dual Screens - not very common on good teams
TR - not very common on good teams
Heart Swap - very, very niche
Psycho Shift - very, very, very niche
Return - worse than head charge
Giga Drain - idk man
Snarl - worse than night daze mostly
Dark Pulse - worse than night daze mostly
Curse - idk
Rock Blast - worse than head smash/dstorm unless skill link, which no rocks have
Heavy Slam - only aggron uses this
Seismic Toss / Night Shade - not useful as STAB
+2 Def moves
+2 SpD moves
+2 Spe moves
non-Magma Storm partial traps
GOOD STAB MOVES IN OR/AS STABMONS

Pokemon specific coverage, like Char-Y's Solarbeam and Ursaring's Fire Punch, are not included since they're not viable as STAB options.
STAB options that are only viable on a single pokemon are also not included, like Blastoise's Origin Pulse and Doublade's Iron Tail.
Code:
1 BUG
    Special:
        -Bug Buzz           90 /100        10% -1 SpD
    Physical:
        -Megahorn           120/85
        -Attack Order       90 /100
        -U-Turn             70 /100        Switches user out
        -Pin Missile        25 /100        2-5 hits
    Setup:
        -Tail Glow                         +3 SpA
        -Quiver Dance                      +1 SpA/SpD/Spe
    Recovery:
        -Heal Order                        +50% HP
    Utility:
        -Sticky Web                        Sets Webs
        -Spider Web                        Opponent cannot switch out
        -Powder                            Deals 25% if hit by fire attack this turn, nullifies the attack

2 DARK
    Special:
        -Dark Pulse         80 /100        20% flinch
        -Night Daze         85 /95         40% -1 Acc
    Physical:
        -Knock Off          65 /100        1.5x damage if remove item
        -Sucker Punch       80 /100        +1 Priority, fails if opponent uses status move
        -Pursuit            40 /100        2x damage if opponent switches out
        -Hyperspace Fury (HARDCODED)
    Setup:
        -Nasty Plot                        +2 SpA
    Recovery:
        [None]
    Utility:
        -Dark Void (BANNED)  --/80         100% sleep
        -Taunt                             Opponent can't use status moves
        -Parting Shot                      -1 Atk/SpA +momentum
        -Topsy-Turvy                       Reverses stat changes
        -Memento                           -2 Atk/SpA suicide
        -Switcheroo                        Swaps items with opponent

3 DRAGON
    Special:
        -Spacial Rend       100/95         High crit chance
        -Draco Meteor       130/90         Self -2 SpA
    Physical:
        -Outrage            120/100        2-3 turns, self confusion
        -Dragon Claw        80 /100
        -Dragon Tail        60 /90         Switches opponent out
    Setup:
        -Dragon Dance                      +1 Atk/Spe
    Recovery:
        [None]
    Utility:
        [None]

4 ELECTRIC
    Special:
        -Thunder            110/70         30% para
        -Thunderbolt        90 /100        10% para
        -Volt Switch        70 /100        Switches user out
    Physical:
        -Bolt Strike        130/85         20% para
        -Fusion Bolt        100/100
    Setup:
        [None]
    Recovery:
        [None]
    Utility:
        -Nuzzle             20 /100        100% para
        -Electrify                         Make opponents move Electric this turn
        -Magnet Rise                       Immunity from ground

5 FAIRY
    Special:
        -Moonblast          95 /100        30% -1 SpA
        -Light of Ruin (UNRELEASED)
    Physical
        -Play Rough         90 /90         10% -1 Atk
    Setup:
        -Geomancy (BANNED)                 +2 SpA/SpD/Spe, charge turn
    Recovery:
        -Moonlight                         +50% HP, weather dependent
    Utility:
        [None]

6 FIGHTING
    Special:
        -Focus Blast        120/70         30% -1 SpD
        -Secret Sword       85 /100        Uses target's Def
        -Aura Sphere        80 /--
        -Vacuum Wave        40 /100        +1 Priority
    Physical:
        -High Jump Kick     130/90         -50% total HP on miss
        -Close Combat       120/100        Self -1 Def/SpD
        -Mach Punch         40 /100        +1 Priority
        -Drain Punch        75 /100        Heals 50% damage dealt
    Setup:
        -Bulk Up                           +1 Atk/Def
    Recovery:
        [None]
    Utility:
        [None]

7 FIRE
    Special
        -Blue Flare         130/85         20% burn
        -Searing Shot       100/100        30% burn
        -Eruption           150/100        Damage scales down with HP
        -Magma Storm        100/75         Partial trapping
    Physical:
        -V-Create           180/95         Self -1 Def/SpD/Spe
        -Sacred Fire        100/95         50% burn
    Setup:
        [None]
    Recovery:
        [None]
    Utility:
        -Will-O-Wisp         --/85         100% burn

8 FLYING
    Special:
        -Hurricane          110/70         30% confuse
        -Aeroblast          100/95         High crit chance
        -Oblivion Wing      80 /100        Heals 75% of damage dealt
    Physical:
        -Dragon Ascent      120/100        Self -1 Def/SpD
        -Brave Bird         120/100        33% recoil
    Setup:
        [None]
    Recovery:
        -Roost                             +50% HP, lose flying for a turn
    Utility:
        -Defog                             Clear hazards and screens, -1 Eva

9 GHOST
    Special:
        -Shadow Ball        80 /100        10% -1 SpD
        -Hex                65 /100        x2 if opponent status
    Physical:
        -Shadow Sneak       40 /100        +1 Priority
        -Shadow Claw        70 /100
    Setup:
        -Curse                             Either +1 Atk/Def, -1 Spe or -50% HP and apply curse
    Recovery:
        [None]
    Utility:
        -Destiny Bond                      If opponent kills you before next move, they die

10 GRASS
    Special:
        -Seed Flare         120/85         40% -2 SpD
        -Energy Ball        90 /100        10% SpD drop
        -Giga Drain         75 /100        Heals 50% damage dealt
    Physical:
        -Power Whip         120/85
        -Horn Leech         75 /100        Heals 75% damage dealt
    Setup:
        -Cotton Guard                      +3 Def
    Recovery:
        -Synthesis                         +50% HP, weather dependent
    Utility:
        -Spore               --/100        100% sleep
        -Aromatherapy                      Cures team status
        -Leech Seed                        Drain 12.5% HP per turn
        -Spiky Shield                      Protect with 12.5% recoil on contact

11 GROUND
    Special:
        -Earth Power        90 /100        10% -1 SpD
    Physical
        -Precipice Blades   120/85
        -Earthquake         100/100
        -Thousand Arrows (UNRELEASED)
        -Thousand Waves (UNRELEASED)
    Setup:
        [None]
    Recovery:
        [None]
    Utility:
        -Spikes                            Sets spikes

12 ICE
    Special:
        -Freeze-Dry         70 /100        SE on water types
        -Blizzard           110/70         10% freeze
        -Ice Beam           90 /100        10% freeze
    Physical
        -Ice Shard          40 /100        +1 Priority
        -Icicle Spear       25 /100        x2-5 hits
        -Icicle Crash       85 /90         30% flinch
    Setup:
        [None]
    Recovery:
        [None]
    Utility:
        -Haze                              Clears all stat changes

13 NORMAL
    Special:
        -Boomburst          140/100
        -Judgment           100/100        Type depends on plate
    Physical
        -Fake Out           40 /100        +3 priority, 100% flinch, first turn only
        -Extreme Speed      80 /100        +2 priority
        -Facade             70 /100        x2 if statused, ignores burn drop
        -Explosion          250/100        Suicide
        -Head Charge        120/100        25% recoil
    Setup:
        -Swords Dance                      +2 Atk
        -Belly Drum (BANNED)               +12 Atk, -50% HP
        -Shell Smash (BANNED)              +2 Atk/SpA/Spe, -1 Def/SpD
    Recovery:
        -Milk Drink                        +50% HP
        -Wish                              +50% HP end of next turn
    Utility:
        -Lovely Kiss (BANNED) -/75         100% sleep
        -Glare                             100% para
        -Baton Pass                        Switches user out, passes boosts
        -Rapid Spin         20 /100        Clears hazards
        -Transform                         Transform into opponent
        -Heal Bell                         Cures team status
        -Perish Song                       Pokemon faint in 3 turns unless they switch
        -Block                             Prevents opponent from switching
        -Sleep Talk                        Uses a random move if you're asleep
        -Whirlwind                         Switches opponent out
        -Encore                            Locks opponent into move for 3 turns
        -Super Fang          --/90         Reduces enemy HP by half

14 POISON
    Special:
        -Sludge Wave        95 /100        10% poison
        -Sludge Bomb        90 /100        30% poison
    Physical:
        -Gunk Shot          120/80         30% poison
        -Poison Jab         70 /100        10% poison
    Setup:
        -Coil                              +1 Atk/Def/Acc
    Recovery:
        [None]
    Utility:
        -Toxic Spikes                      Sets tspikes
        -Toxic               --/90         100% bad poison
        -Clear Smog         50 /--         Clears stat changes
        -Gastro Acid                       Removes ability

15 PSYCHIC
    Special:
        -Psystrike          100/100        Uses opponent's Def
        -Psycho Boost       140/90         self -2 SpA
        -Stored Power       20 /100        +20 BP per stat boost
        -Future Sight       120/100        Hits after two turns
        -Mirror Coat         --/100        If hit by special attack, returns double damage
    Physical:
        -Zen Headbutt       80 /90         20% flinch chance
    Setup:
        -Calm Mind                         +1 SpA/SpD
        -Cosmic Power                      +1 Def/SpD
        -Agility                           +2 Spe
    Recovery:
        -Rest                              +100% HP, self sleep for 2 turns
    Utility:
        -Lunar Dance                       Suicide, fully heals next pokemon including PP
        -Trick                             Trades item with opponent
        -Trick Room                        Sets TR
        -Light Screen                      Sets light screen
        -Reflect                           Sets reflect

16 ROCK
    Special:
        -Power Gem          80 /100
    Physical
        -Diamond Storm      100/95         Self 50% +1 Def
        -Head Smash         150/80         50% recoil
    Setup:
        -Rock Polish                       +2 Spe
    Recovery:
        [None]
    Utility:
        -Stealth Rock                      Sets SR

17 STEEL
    Special:
        -Flash Cannon       80 /100        10% -1 SpD
        -Doom Desire        140/100        Hits after two turns
    Physical:
        -Meteor Mash        90 /90         20% self +1 Atk
        -Gear Grind         50 /85         2 hits
        -Heavy Slam         -- /100        Weight dependant damage
        -Gyro Ball          -- /100        Speed dependent damage
        -Bullet Punch       40 /100        +1 priority
    Setup:
        -Shift Gear (BANNED)               +1 Atk, +2 Spe
        -Autotomize                        +2 Spe
    Recovery:
        [None]
    Utility:
        -King’s Shield                     Protect, -2 Atk on contact, does not block status
        -Metal Burst                       If hit by attack, return 1.5x damage

18 WATER
    Special:
        -Steam Eruption     110/95         30% burn
        -Water Spout        150/100        Damage scales down with HP
        -Scald              80 /100        30% burn
    Physical:
        -Crabhammer         100/90         High crit chance
        -Waterfall          80 /100        20% flinch
        -Water Shuriken     15 /100        2-5 hits, +1 priority
    Setup:
        [None]
    Recovery:
        [None]
    Utility:
        [None]
 
Last edited:
Here are the current new moves that we know of (at least I think this is up to date): http://www.serebii.net/sunmoon/attacks.shtml

The ones that stood out to me on there are:
Accelerock -Rock - (40/100?) +1 priority
Multi Attack -Normal? - Physical Judgment
Thousand Arrows - Ground - hits flying types

The full trapping moves and the grass type super fang also look good, but full trapping and super fang get almost no use as it stands despite their large distribution. The other moves look like they could be good but there's not enough info out about them to make me excited to use them over existing options.

Water Shuriken gives specs keldeo yet another STAB option that it's almost never going to click.

I can add this stuff to my big list when more info comes out and I have more time (lol...).
 

AquaticPanic

Intentional Femboy Penguin
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Here are the current new moves that we know of (at least I think this is up to date): http://www.serebii.net/sunmoon/attacks.shtml

The ones that stood out to me on there are:
Accelerock -Rock - (40/100?) +1 priority
Multi Attack -Normal? - Physical Judgment
Thousand Arrows - Ground - hits flying types

The full trapping moves and the grass type super fang also look good, but full trapping and super fang get almost no use as it stands despite their large distribution. The other moves look like they could be good but there's not enough info out about them to make me excited to use them over existing options.

Water Shuriken gives specs keldeo yet another STAB option that it's almost never going to click.

I can add this stuff to my big list when more info comes out and I have more time (lol...).
The Decidueye move, that is one of the very few Physical Ghost type attacks (And traps oponent)
The Grass version of Blaze Kick might be better then Leaf Blade depending on bp
And ofc Moongeist Beam and Sunsteel Strike, who probably have high bp since they are Cover Box's signatures
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
This is still bs that STABmons is not having a permaladder but I digress....

Anyways to put substance into the post, what do you guys feel was the most consistent threat of STABmons throughout the course of Gen 6? (through all its iterations). Imo its between Sylveon and Landorus-T tbh, both mons had always been top dogs when they had been available to be used. What are others thoughts?
 

Sylveon.

Penny saved is still a fucking penny
If we are considering all of gen 6, for me honor has to go to kyu-b and shift gear mzor.
But rn, it'll be sylveon(mainly because of boomburst) and keldeo(hits insanely hard).
 

dhelmise

everything is embarrassing
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Considering that there are not only two abilities that prevent priority from being used but an entirely new terrain that does the same thing, I feel like all of the previously victorious FakeSpeed, Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave, Aqua Jet, Water Shuriken, Sucker Punch, and Prankster users will have to start being more cautious of what decisions they make. Even though this was somewhat avoidable with Prankster users being able to predict Magic Bounce Pokemon coming in and use Parting Shot or some other pivotal move to get out, Dazzling, Queenly Majesty, and Psychic Terrain completely invalidate most uses while active. This could be considered bad considering:
  • Bruxish is no longer hit by FakeSpeed from very common Pokemon like Mega Lopunny and Stoutland, resists their main coverage moves in High Jump Kick and Superpower (or Fire Fang for Stoutland), and doesn't mind Ice Punch or Fire Punch from Mega Lopunny, which might cause them both to run Thunder Punch and Crunch respectively just to counter it.
  • Tsareena is on somewhat of the same level as Bruxish; however, even though it outright blocks priority as well, its Grass / Fairy typing leaves it weak to Ice / Fire Punch, as well as Fire Fang from Stoutland. I can't provide much more on this, as there's not much basis on Tsareena currently.
  • Tapu Lele is probably my favorite so far. Its typing and ability give it about a 180 Base Power Psystrike (this is assuming Psychic Terrain gives 1.2x boost and not 1.3x, which I'm pretty sure the other terrains do) after the boosts, it gets access to Fleur Cannon if it wants, and Psychic Terrain is just like Dazzling or Queenly Majesty with more benefits. Even though it is temporary, Psychic Terrain gives boosts to Psychic moves and prevents priority from being used on both sides of the field for presumably 5 turns. I feel like this is going to cause so many currently viable Pokemon in STABmons to run coverage particularly for Tapu Lele. Even though Steel-types are somewhat common, they cannot easily KO Tapu Lele with Bullet Punch, obviously. Not to mention that even though Tapu Lele has a confirmed (terrible) base HP stat of 70, it will still maintain a lot of viability in Gen VII STABmons.
---

Now, even though that part of my post technically belongs in the predictions thread, I have more stuff to add. I feel like the top threats were: Literally everything that got a currently banned move, as well as Porygon-Z and Thundurus. Even though Porygon-Z was the only non-S-rank to be banned in STABmons (as far as I can remember). Porygon-Z was probably the most threatening mixed FakeSpeeder (and attacker in general) in STABmons. Not only were both of its offensive stats better than Sylveon's, its infinite use of all of its abilities were amazing. Porygon-Z could use Adaptability to get a 2x boost on its STAB moves, which is still marginally greater than Sylveon's 1.995x STAB move boost (after Pixilate and STAB obviously). Porygon-Z could also run a Download set to get a 2.25x boost on its physical or special STAB moves. while this is more limiting than Sylveon's universal 1.995x STAB boost, it allowed Porygon-Z to have an insanely large offensive presence, only being stopped by faster FakeSpeeders and bulkier Pokemon.

Thundurus, on the other hand, was very unnecessary in my eyes at the beginning. Even though it had an insane movepool with great offensive stats, literally any Pokemon with priority could stop it. However, while this is true, Thundurus in general was very unpredictable with the endless sets it could run, which made it almost impossible to switch into. This paragraph is a lot shorter because I'm more indifferent to Thundurus than I was to Porygon-Z; however, that does mean I don't think this ban was monumental for STABmons.
 
  • Tapu Lele is probably my favorite so far. Its typing and ability give it about a 180 Base Power Psystrike (this is assuming Psychic Terrain gives 1.2x boost and not 1.3x, which I'm pretty sure the other terrains do)
http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-xy/electricterrain.shtml
http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-xy/electricterrain.shtml
http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-xy/grassyterrain.shtml

The terrains boosts by 50%, so it's x1.5. Assuming Psychic Terrain have the same boost, Psystrike is going to have 225 BP.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
This is still bs that STABmons is not having a permaladder but I digress....

Anyways to put substance into the post, what do you guys feel was the most consistent threat of STABmons throughout the course of Gen 6? (through all its iterations). Imo its between Sylveon and Landorus-T tbh, both mons had always been top dogs when they had been available to be used. What are others thoughts?
Diggersby. Unrivaled in every way. Most controversial ban. Literally the best Pokemon STABmons ever saw.
 

Betathunder

alphalightning
the council has decided that upon SuMo's release the banlist will be changed to the initial gen 7 OU banlist. This means popular mons such as Porygon-z, Thundurus, and Kyurem-Black will now be available again, as well as mega metagross and mega Altaria. However, the moves that are banned will remain banned.
 

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