Singles Break that Core (Week 17: Hippowdon + Lucario + Dragonite) ~ VOTING (post #395)

voting for cant say

malts typing makes it a really nice answer to both zards. i like DD on it cause it helps it muscle past Zard Y faster.
 
surgical_tubing gets my vote
there isnt really much that checks one zard or the other, so checking both is a real hassle. with the power of based thunder wave, zards are taken more care off, and hippo cant really do much either, that is, if it can even move
thunder wave is broken
 

bobochan

slow mo my bobo
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This week I'm gonna vote for NOVED the godsend and his cash Bulky Helmet Gyarados.
Hippowdon can't really spam his favorite moves other than to retaliate with pitiful non STAB damage.
Both Charizard forms get crippled with Thunder Wave allowing the rest of your team to finish up.
It's always nice to have a bird check and taunt user on the team these days.
 
I vote for cant say because Mega Altaria and I can't vote for my self. SubRoost DD Mega Altaria is dangerous vs this core. You guys should vote for my MAlt over cant say for my image though to be honest

I'd vote for NOVED, but Stone Edge accuracy and the fact that there's a viable Zard Y set used with Substitute to block off Sucker Punch from MMawile etc. including thunder wave status etc. really take away from reliability vs the core. Sandstorm, rocky helmet, and some speed drops might just be able to make Hippo able to slack off before Gyara can taunt a second time as well as take it down due to that thing's bulk.

And a lot of ppl keep talking about letting Yawn/sleep go by like it's just you facing down Hippo 1v1. Yawn is dangerous because it allows them to pivot into a setup mon for a nice set-up turn if you decide on staying in especially depending on their team and sweeper match-up vs what you have. It can also just be used to pseudo-haze if the sweeper match-up isn't favorable but who's to say that they have the right or the wrong Mons for the match-up until after the fact.
 
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Voting for GroudonEmpire. Special M-Altaria beats both Zards with relative ease, and with Hippo Yawn is a huge problem, but M-Altaria has the advantage in this matchup imo. SpD Hippo could be a problem to M-Alt too since it can stall M-Altaria out of Hyper Voices, but it's so uncommon to the point that you shouldn't be paranoid about it. I just find Special Altaria to be the best answer to this core out of all the choices.
 
I vote for surgical_tubing.
It's pretty much golden against both Zards and Hippowdon, save for Zard Y when it manages to move through paralysis, avoid the flinch from Air Slash, and hit with Fire Blast-needless to say, that's not very often. It also doesn't use up your mega slot. I agree with cant say about replacing Ancientpower-Roost or Encore would be better, and you can probably make a case for Flamethrower/Fire Blast, too.
 
I vote for GroundonEmpire because Mega Altaria is one of my favorite pokemon it's typing is really good against Zard. Hippowdon can be a bit of a problem but running damage calculator hyper voice is a solid 2HKO unless it's invested in SpD which is very unlikely.

124+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 115-136 (53.4 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (and it's probably Rocky Helmet anyway)

So if Zard is already dealt with you could even risk being put to sleep by hyper voicing twice in a row, fainting Hippowdown but being put to sleep afterwards. I don't understand how Togekiss is a thing, if it uses it's first turn to paralyze Zard it's already going to get a huge hit in return, meaning it's going to rely on pure hax afterwards to win the matchup? I thought the point of a nomination was kinda to not rely on hax.

I really like Altaria and I might try to build a team around this.
 
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Voting for cant say because Mega Altaria just walls Zards and Hippo without any difficulty whatsoever. The big selling point here, though, is that not only can it wall both formes, it can setup on them and sweep the opposing team. I would vote GroudonEmpire, but it mainly serves as a defensive counter to Zard and Hippo.

It sucks that I missed nomming something for this core, though, as I totally would've gone with Sap Sipper CB Azumarill. That thing is godlike against Zards and Hippo.
 
I vote for GroundonEmpire because Mega Altaria is one of my favorite pokemon it's typing is really good against Zard. Hippowdon can be a bit of a problem but running damage calculator hyper voice is a solid 2HKO unless it's invested in SpD which is very unlikely.

124+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 115-136 (53.4 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (and it's probably Rocky Helmet anyway)
I didn't not know the calcs. I thought it did ~36-40ish% I know my MAlt isn't as invested as it apparently has speed evs that make no sense to me but i seriously did not know it does that much damage to Hippo that's crazy! ^_^
 
Voting for can't say. I was enticed by GroudonEmpire's set because I think a special attacker is quite useful against Hippowdon. But fire blast in a Zard fight just feels wrong. Can't say's nomination is not particularly threatened by either member of the core and gets to set up.

A handful of folks suggested roost over ancient power in my Togekiss set and I must admit, I usually run roost or heal bell in that slot myself. But only considering this core roost seems like a bad idea. If planning to outspeed I'd be nervous to roost on anyone but Charizard Y. Hippowdon is carrying earthquake for sure and Charizard X may be as well. Ancient power does 4x damage against Charizard X and has a double chance of boosting all stats thanks to Serene Grace.
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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Happy new year! Hopefully you guys are having wonderful holidays. I've been a bit late updating this thread so sorry to those of you who look forward to these. It will pick up again now that the main part of holidays are behind us. Here's to a new year of breaking cores!

Congrats to cant say and his Dragon Dance Mega Altaria set! It's unique typing sure is great against both Charizard forms, but looks like the ability to hit back hard put his nomination above the rest!

This week we look at something that I've been struggling a lot against recently. One is a bulky tank with one of the best defensive typings in the game, and the other is a powerhouse with one of the best offensive typings in the game: Suicune and Blaziken.



At first glance a defensive Pokemon and an offensive Pokemon don't synergize well together, but these two overcome this phenomenon for having good matchups against the majority of Pokemon in the meta together. Pokemon that scare Blaziken away struggle against Suicune, and Blaziken isn't so frail that it can't switch into grass types that Suicune struggle against. How do you break this core?
 
reserving mega slowbro

Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Slack Off

Maybe not the most optimal spread, but thanks to its typing and defenses it is always able to beat any blaziken, and suicune can't beat a cm bro 1v1 thanks to psyshock hitting on the defensive side, and you cannot get crit by suicune incase it is also calm mind and sets up along you. Slack off ensures its durability versus this core as well.
 
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Rotom-Wash @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpA
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest

Rotom-Wash is a great counter to both suicune as well as blaziken. 104 special attack is enough to take care of both of them and as rotom wash is faster that uninvested suicunes it can quickly use rest after defeating blaziken-mega with a hydro pump because with 152 defense and a bold nature even a high jump kick from mega-blaziken wont ohko this washing machine. Here are some calcs to show its effectiveness. WoW is there for the physical attackers such as kangaskhan, mence and garchomp.

Offense
104 SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 104-126 (50.2 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
104 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blaziken: 170-204 (109.6 - 131.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Defense
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Rotom-W: 108-127 (68.7 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 73-87 (46.4 - 55.4%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO
 

Chandelure@Assault Vest
Ability:Infiltrator/Flash Fire
EVs:196 HP/ 252 Def/ 60 Spe
Modest Nature
-Shadow Ball
-Flamethrower
-Energy Ball
-Clear Smog

This was the first thing that came to mind, and I hope I don't regret nomming it. Clear Smog is used to get rid of Suicune's boosts, w/ the EVs outspeeding it. Unfortunalely, this set only has a 10.9% chance to 2HKO 252/4 SpD Sicune, while always getting 2HKOd in return, but it can kill Suicune if it's asleep or something, and wiping boosts is it's main thing vs Suicune anyways. Chandelure is even better equipped to fight Blaziken, as many run STABs alongside HP Ice, which can't touch Chandelure-even if you go Infiltrator, Flare Blitz from 252 +Atk Mega Blaziken is a 3HKO, and you 2HKO it w/ Shadow Ball. Stone Edge from 252 +Atk Mega Blaziken is only a 2HKO, and it's liable to miss meaning Chandelure has a chance vs even variants of Mega Blaziken running Stone Edge(and according to the PGL, Stone Edge isn't in the top 10 moves for Blaziken anymore-though Rock Slide is andd is actually much more threatening to Chandelure thanks to higher accuracy, a flinch chance, and the fact that it's still a 2HKO.) Knock Off is also threatening, but few Blaziken run it. The reason I slashed Infiltrator and Flash Fire is because Infiltrator is better, but Flash Fire is more useful against Blaziken. This set also does some other neat stuff like surviving 252 SpA Mega Gengar's Shadow Ball and OHKOing w/ a Shadow Ball of its own.

Some defensive calcs for Blaziken and its Mega:

Mega:
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 196 HP / 252 Def Chandelure: 124-148 (77.5 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 196 HP / 252 Def Chandelure: 111-131 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 196 HP / 252 Def Chandelure: 47-56 (29.3 - 35%) -- 11.8% chance to 3HKO

Regular:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 196 HP / 252 Def Chandelure: 117-138 (73.1 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 196 HP / 252 Def Chandelure: 147-173 (91.8 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 196 HP / 252 Def Chandelure: 133-156 (83.1 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

244 SpA Life Orb Blaziken Hidden Power Ice vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Chandelure: 14-17 (8.7 - 10.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
 
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Reserving Mega Altaria...again.

way to update it you butt it would have been really good smh
 
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ethan06

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Gyarados @ Gyaradosite / Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

RestTalk Gyarados easily beats Blaziken by resisting both of its STABs in regular form and taking nothing from Knock Off while boosting alongside it. Stone Edge and Thunder Punch are issues, but High Jump Kick only OHKOs Mega Gyarados from full if it's Adamant Mega Blaziken - mixed LO sets fail to KO the bulk of the time and Gyarados KOs back cleanly even without boosts. Suicune doesn't threaten Gyarados with anything except for Roar, as Scald burns and accumulated damage can simply be Rested away. Leftovers can be used, but regular Gyarados has issues taking Thunder Punches, Stone Edges and boosted Ice Beams, and the added bulk is very useful on a set as bulky as this one.

4 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 158-188 (101.9 - 121.2%)
+6 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 67-79 (33.1 - 39.1%)
-1 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 124-148 (61.3 - 73.2%)
-1 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Gyarados: 50-60 (24.7 - 29.7%)
+4 4 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 65-77 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- 79.2% chance to 3HKO
 
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bobochan

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THE RAIN WILL SET YOU FREE


NOVED (Politoed) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Whirlpool Toxic / Encore
- Scald
- Protect
- Perish Song

Theorymon (Ludicolo) @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump

A bit gimmicky this week with the nomination, but Rain Offense does the job pretty well.
Politoed has a sweet matchup against the core by beating Blaziken/Mega Blaziken 1v1 (most of the time).
Whirlpool is great for trapping and removing Suicune, although unnecessary as Ludicolo gets a free Sub, Ice Beam fail to do more than 25% even without any defense investment.
For the Blaziken variants that carry Focus Sash (around 15% of the time), you can toss a Sash on Ludicolo due to High Jump Kick being a clean OHKO.
EDIT: SORRY CAN'T GET WHIRLPOOL IN GEN 6

Calcs
4 SpA Politoed Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blaziken in Rain: 152-182 (98 - 117.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 123-145 (62.4 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Tomb
- Spore

With a speed investment Breloom has a good chance to outspeed Suicune and spore it before it can do anything as they rarely invest in speed. This is also a nice way to burn through their Chesto berry if they have one (though you'll burn through your sash if they do). Bullet seed will take down a sleeping Suicune pretty quickly. Against Blaziken it's more of a gamble, but focus sash pretty much guarantees you can put them to sleep. Mach punching them while they sleep has a decent change to to come out on top depending on how the sleep timer plays out. Remember a 3HKO on a priority move means if they sleep two turns you got 'em. One potential problem with Blaziken is you can get burned, which will undermine the focus sash and you won't likely be able to KO while Blaziken sleeps. Also if they run substitute you're in trouble.


252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 132-162 (63.7 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Blaziken: 61-73 (39.3 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
Azumarill & Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Blaziken can't hit Azumarill for more than 47% with his standard moves even when running life orb, Thunder Punch isn't even in the top 10 moves. Set up Belly Drum then 0HKO Blaziken with Aqua Jet and 0HKO Suicune with Play Rough, if burned 2HKO Suicune.
 
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spe
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Taunt
- Recover

I made this set a while ago for Battlespot and it handles both Suicune and Blaziken brilliantly. This really is the standard set for Jellicent pretty much, however Icy Wind makes it the perfect Crocune counter since it can out-speed and fire off a Taunt after one speed drop. After that you can just fish for the Scald burn and then continue taunting until it's gone. It's pretty self explanatory how it beats Blaziken too, as Blaze's only way to 2HKO it is the rare Life Orb Thunderpunch or Knock Off, and even then Scald does around 3/4 of damage. As for the EV spread, I honestly don't remember what I was trying to outspeed so it could probably be altered a bit so it can take Knock Offs or Thunderpunches better.
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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Voting time! Make sure to put your votes in bold.

thecrystalonix : CM Mega Slowbro
aniravjain : Rest Rotom-Wash
Omastar68 : AV Clear Smog Chandelure
ethan06 : RestTalk DD Mega Gyarados (mono Waterfall)
bobochan : Politoed + Ludicolo Rain Offense
surgical_tubing : Focus Sash Breloom
Benzi : Belly Jet Azumarill
edavis707 : Taunt + Icy Wind Jellicent

My vote this week goes to thecrystalonix. Mega Slowbro is just very consistent against both Pokemon, especially its ability to win CM wars.
 

cant say

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Benzi for sure, Azumarill walks over these guys. You probably want Superpower over Knock Off though for potential Ferrothorn partners.
 
I'm gonna vote for thecrystalonix because mega slowbro like dragonwhale said is very consistent against these two pokemon.
 
Voting for Benzi. Suicune and Blaziken do very little vs Azumarill, and it can set up a BD very safely against either one, and be threatening even if the opponent switches that turn.
 

bobochan

slow mo my bobo
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Chucking a vote for (tco)thecrystalonix and his Mega Slowbro.
Mega Slowbro easily counters this core by walling any Blaziken while winning 1v1 against Suicune.
 

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