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Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread (read the op before posting a thread)
- Thread starter Celticpride
- Start date
Is Defog viable on Tapu Koko?
It's too early to tell really. I can't see it being used on it much but I'm sure it's not completely unviable.
I toyed around with it a bit and, as Gary said, its to early to say for sure but its most definitely not unviable.
Particularly, the offensive pivot set (magnet/zap plate) essentially runs 3 movs with the last being up in the air and defog is a good choice for offensive/momentum heavy teams.
But again, time wull tell how godd it truly is.
Updated Kanto
Banned deucer.
X LUCK X
Banned deucer.
Day 1 teams that aren't running a single check to the mon. Check.
All replays under 1600 ELO. Check.
It's obvious that Naganadel is going to sweep under these circumstances. You are playing average players while you are a much better than average player, and they are running teams that are completely bent by it. You're simply outplaying them.
I thought it was advised by the mods to not link low rated replays for the purpose of pushing forth an argument. At high level people have been adapting to Nagandel running pokemon such as Assault Vest TTar, Alolan Muk, and Heatran, making Naganadel all but inefficate for sweeping purposes. CB Weavile's ice shard has a 75% to kill after rocks and Fake Outs from Medi and Lop can help finish it off after you hit it while it sets up. Speaking from experience as someone who has been playing at 1800-1900 since Naganadel came out. Let's spectate some. (Note: This isn't my alt, just someone I was watching. I don't save replays anymore.)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-661632293 - Naganadel fails to do anything. Trapped from the get go.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-661627784 - Both players' Naganadel are rendered useless by chansey and TTar, respectively.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-661623848 - Sand and hazards keeps Naganadel in check and it is never able to set up. I wouldn't say that 100 PPH is running a naganadel counter but it doesn't do anything.
I urge the council to calm down and let the metagame develop around the Pokemon. As it stands, as soon as you reach high level play, it's not as efficient because people are bringing checks to it. And ya... there are a lot of good checks to it that fit on many teams and don't suck in other circumstances.
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Also, since people complain about how boring Toxapex Balance meta is, I'm surprised people are rallying behind a ban of a pokemon that turns it into complete setup fodder and FINALLY gives offense a GOOD T Spikes absorber for once.
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E: also, looking over your replays, your opponents also made grievous errors. Your opponent in the third one, for instance, has the mamo to pressure Naganadel after the free Sparkling Aria hit but 1) doesn't pull the trigger to switch to Mamo when Sludge Wave is the move you're using 95% of the time, and 2) doesn't even Ice Shard when Mamo comes in.
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I do not want to derail the thread too much, but I respectfully disagree with the sentiments expressed within your post, so I will try to keep this brief (for my standards) and hopefully we can leave it at that.
Naganadel has approximately two valid, otherwise relevant defensive answers: Tyranitar and Heatran. On top of this, Tyranitar has to either run AV or SDef Mega utility variants and Heatran has to run SDef variants, too. It is pretty clear to me that having a Pokemon that is this common immediately tear through teams that lack one of these two Pokemon is not a good look for the metagame. In addition, these two can be worked around with smart pivoting and Spikes/Stealth Rock being present on the field, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that point as both of these are still textbook checks to Naganadel and that implies that support or outplaying is required. I want you to keep in mind that Pokemon like AV Alolan Muk are hardly ever used and do not make great points to add to the conversation.
While the former point is certainly worrisome as is, there is a much more pressing case for the brokenness of Naganandel; this is the fact that revenge killing Naganandel is borderline impossible outside of Ice Shard users. The base speed of Naganandel is already quite high at 121, but add onto this the fact that Beast Boost lets it get +1 speed for every kill, it means that if you are to fodder or get revenge killed by Naganandel at all, then you will no longer have anything to outpace it unless you have a mediocre Choice Scarf user that is not particularly common like Greninja. Ice Shard on Weavile and even the rare Mamoswine will suffice, but other than that, Naganandel lives priority moves pretty easily and honestly can just walk all over offensive teams. It even finds chances to set-up fairly often due to helpful defensive typing and bulk much better than the likes of Pheromosa (still generally frail, but it is at least passable for what it needs to do), which many people seem to be comparing Naganandel to.
I think that it is pretty clear that Naganandel is too much for the tier to handle as there is not sufficient counterplay on the offensive or defensive front. Oh right and before I forget, the tier had existed for under 24 hours at this point, so trying to nitpick the quality of the replays does not seem like something that is particularly wise to do. These games had little to do with me being much better than my opponents and much more to do with the fact that they had insufficient countermeasures to Naganandel, which practically everyone has.
It depends on the team, usually. While some have just been dropping Scald as Knock Off gives them another move that does actual damage and they can induce Poison as a status through Toxic or Toxic Spikes, others have dropped things like Toxic Spikes. With Naganandel still in the tier, it is hard to justify dropping Haze and I think it is pretty obvious that Recover is a staple on every Toxapex set, so generally Scald or the Poison move gets dropped if the Toxapex user elects to use Knock Off (it is not mandatory).
I don't fully understand the point behind your post---you immediately cite poor building and lack of skill as the main reason Naga swept in those replays (I'll admit Finch could have posted better replays, but that's beside the point), then you proceed to post replays that suffer from similar flaws.
In the first replay, the Naganadel user is facing some atrocious Mega-Tar semi-stall with Koko check Zygarde (lol what is gleam). Naga has a phenomenal matchup from preview and any semi-decent player could tell you the path to victory in this instance is wearing down Mega-Tar so NP Naga can blown through everything at +2. Instead, the Naga user completely ignores that, NPs turn 1, then Dracos Tar for half its health when literally nothing on their team cares about Tar getting weakened (Keld, Lop, Lando, Celest all threaten Tar a ton). Obviously if you misplay horribly with a broken Pokemon it's not going to do anything.
The second replay features Ribombee Skarmbliss Pinsir offense(???) and a series of turns where the Naga user opts to mash +2 Sludge into Chansey in place of NPing on a Soft to either kill Chansey or place it in range of rocks if it switches out. Chansey checks Naga decently only if it has T-Wave, but it dies in the process by trading 84.9 - 100.1% (+4 Z-Draco roll) of its health for a single T-Wave (which can potentially just be Healing Wished, meaning it will occasionally not even fully check it).
Replay three is vs. some absolutely disgusting cheese with water resist Weavile. Naga had potential to set up vs. Zapdos, but Weavile's presence in tandem with hazards greatly inhibits Naga's potential to sweep. Getting an iffy matchup vs. random ladder cheese is a seriously flawed thing to cite in support of something being balanced---Landorus-I, Pheromosa, and Metagross were all capable of having imperfect matchups and struggling a bit, but they're not any less broken.
Naganadel is a threat that doesn't even need to run different sets to threaten different playstyles. Z-Draco NP, by itself, threatens every single playstyle to a capacity virtually no other lone set has in SM's history. On the flipside, Lando-I had to run RP to threaten clean sweeps, sacrificing a coverage slot it would very much so enjoy having available.
So, with the update of Poké Tranfer and the possibility to acess gen 2 mons, are there any "old moves" that can be good now? Like Curse Mega Scizor, Perish Song + Wirlpool Azumarill...?
Espeon and Alakazam get Zap Cannon, which they can use for Gigavolt Havoc.
I don't think we got anything significant out of this as most of these moves are either gimmicks (perish trap on azu) or super niche (curse scizor?) or just unviable (Espeon and non sash regular Zam).
Theyre mostly niche new options but some of them look fun to mess around with
If you hate bulu, trap sipper azu can switch in and trap it, it can also trap celesteela and ferro so theres that
Curse scizor sounds interesting till u remember pex and steela are everywhere in the tier so unfort that wont work
Edit: oh ye, i guess if u have the luck u can use zap cannon on m-alakazam to hit celesteela
Could Tsareena be a potentially semi-viable wallbreaker, now that it gets Knock Off and Power Whip? I ran some calcs with her having this set:
Tsareena @ Choice Band
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Play Rough
She 2HKOs Standard Toxapex (Power Whip), Ferrothorn (High Jump Kick), Chansey (High Jump Kick, but Knock Off also makes Chansey into dead weight to add insult to injury), Mantine (Power Whip, which is actually 50-50 to OHKO Mantine to boot), Mew (Knock Off), Defensive Pelliper (Power Whip), M-Sableye (Play Rough), and all most of these people can do back is hope to status her or time a protect in the case of KOs given by High Jump Kick. And it's not like a whole bunch of people would want to switch into Banded Tsareena either: she can OHKO or 2HKO about 90% of the meta. She would even have good synergy with Tapu Fini, thanks to Misty Terrain protecting Tsareena from status while Tsareena slaughters every single Tapu not named "Bulu" in one shot with Power Whip, which is what she should be clicking a lot of the time anyway.
Main problems for her are gonna be Skarmory and Celesteela, but that honestly can be covered with a Magnezone teammate.
Tsareena @ Choice Band
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Play Rough
She 2HKOs Standard Toxapex (Power Whip), Ferrothorn (High Jump Kick), Chansey (High Jump Kick, but Knock Off also makes Chansey into dead weight to add insult to injury), Mantine (Power Whip, which is actually 50-50 to OHKO Mantine to boot), Mew (Knock Off), Defensive Pelliper (Power Whip), M-Sableye (Play Rough), and all most of these people can do back is hope to status her or time a protect in the case of KOs given by High Jump Kick. And it's not like a whole bunch of people would want to switch into Banded Tsareena either: she can OHKO or 2HKO about 90% of the meta. She would even have good synergy with Tapu Fini, thanks to Misty Terrain protecting Tsareena from status while Tsareena slaughters every single Tapu not named "Bulu" in one shot with Power Whip, which is what she should be clicking a lot of the time anyway.
Main problems for her are gonna be Skarmory and Celesteela, but that honestly can be covered with a Magnezone teammate.
A lot of this is pretty fair, but a minor point: she actually beats a few variants of Heatran, one on one (depending on the set, the best they do is 2HKO her, while she casually slaughters every variation with High Jump Kick). That being said, the general point makes sense: I doubt she would like losing her Band very much, and while she causes a lot of 50-50s, she also causes them on herself, so prediction would be a time and a half.
anyone have any solid usum sample teams yet?
Sure, there you go.
Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Rock Tomb
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack
Magearna @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shift Gear
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast / Calm Mind
Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
Bisharp @ Dread Plate
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
Naganadel @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Wave
- Draco Meteor
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Rock Tomb
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack
Magearna @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shift Gear
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast / Calm Mind
Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
Bisharp @ Dread Plate
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
Naganadel @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Wave
- Draco Meteor
This is just some type of webs, but by two twists: firstly, Specs Lele, in order to wear Heatran down, as well as sometimes late game sweep. Then, a shuca berry Magearna, as it is able to set itself up on scarf Lando which is otherwise somewhat of a pain, as it avoid the speed drop of the webs.
As with HO's in general, the games are quite fast, and the Match up versus trick-room is quite gard, but thanks to bisharp, it shouldn't be too hard to deal with it. Enjoy !
As with HO's in general, the games are quite fast, and the Match up versus trick-room is quite gard, but thanks to bisharp, it shouldn't be too hard to deal with it. Enjoy !
where do i send my team to get judged for quality?
What are some good partners for a scarf ninja with the moveset of Rock Slide / U-turn / Gunk Shot / Ice Beam? Basically what kind of mons does this ninja revenge kill and hence opens up opportunities for partners?
Strong wallbreakers that can advantage of the momentum and free switches that U-turn provides, such as Swords Dance Landorus-T, Mega Pinsir, Mega Medicham, and Hoopa-U, make for good teammates. Pokemon such as Tapu Bulu and Ferrothorn that appreciate Greninja's ability to revenge kill setup sweepers also make for good teammates, as they're setup bait for Volcarona.
This was literally copied and pasted from Greninja's analysis (which I had already read) but thanks anyways