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Should Mew actually be #150 in the Pokedex?
- Thread starter RODAN
- Start date
Because Mew isn't available in RBY without event, so you must capture the first 150 pokemon to "finish" the goal. Not the 149th first ones + 151.
I think it's suppose to be implied that the player characters organized the Pokedex order (and for some reason its kept as is because the Professors are lazy). For the most part the Regional Dex goes by order of availability and when its time to enter the new Pokemon in the National Dex they just cut them out in order from the Regional Dex for the most part.
So why is Mewtwo before Mew? Because the player character got Mewtwo first.
Why is Landorus separated from Thundurus/Tornadus? Because the you can catch Thundurus/Tornadus first, then Zekrom/Reshiram, and finally post game you can get Landorus.
So why is Mewtwo before Mew? Because the player character got Mewtwo first.
Why is Landorus separated from Thundurus/Tornadus? Because the you can catch Thundurus/Tornadus first, then Zekrom/Reshiram, and finally post game you can get Landorus.
I have a simple theory: Mewtwo was publicly known before Mew. The scientists who discovered Mew didn't reveal their find. Instead, they perform the experiments that created Mewtwo, which ran amok and became known outside their creators, leading it to be #150. Some time later, Mew was officially discovered and became #151.
Also, I wouldn't worry about Pokédex numbers as the National Dex makes no sense. Why are some (required) baby Pokémon separated from their adult forms? Why didn't anyone know about Johto Pokémon in Kanto despite it being right next door and the birth place of the Poké Ball, leading them to have higher numbers than those found in Kanto, including the very recent Mewtwo? Why weren't happiness evolutions of Kanto 'mons not discovered before Mewtwo? How did Lickilicky or Mamoswine not get discovered in Generation II*? The National Dex numbers really aren't important in universe. They are there to provide a checklist.
*Both of these are Pokémon that required a specific move before evolving, Rollout in Lickilicky's case, Ancient Power in Mamoswine. Both Lickitung and Piloswine have had these moves in their movepool since Gold and Silver, making them the only Pokémon who could have theoretically evolved in a previous game (happiness evos were impossible as that was tracked in Red, Green, or Blue and was only tracked on Pikachu in Yellow).
Also, I wouldn't worry about Pokédex numbers as the National Dex makes no sense. Why are some (required) baby Pokémon separated from their adult forms? Why didn't anyone know about Johto Pokémon in Kanto despite it being right next door and the birth place of the Poké Ball, leading them to have higher numbers than those found in Kanto, including the very recent Mewtwo? Why weren't happiness evolutions of Kanto 'mons not discovered before Mewtwo? How did Lickilicky or Mamoswine not get discovered in Generation II*? The National Dex numbers really aren't important in universe. They are there to provide a checklist.
*Both of these are Pokémon that required a specific move before evolving, Rollout in Lickilicky's case, Ancient Power in Mamoswine. Both Lickitung and Piloswine have had these moves in their movepool since Gold and Silver, making them the only Pokémon who could have theoretically evolved in a previous game (happiness evos were impossible as that was tracked in Red, Green, or Blue and was only tracked on Pikachu in Yellow).
If you were to ask me, I believe Mew should be number one on the Pokédex; for two reasons. It was the first Pokémon, and it was the first Pokémon. From my understanding, Mew was the first Pokémon to be created when Game Freak was first developing the Pokémon games. And it is also to my understanding that this is why the lore of Mew states that it was the first Pokémon in existence, within the games. Now, I understand why they would make it #151 from a storytelling point of view, being their first created Pokémon made it special to them. And as such, they wanted this sentimental Pokémon, this legendary Pokémon, to be hidden from the players view. We all know once you get a Pokédex for the first time that there are some gaps in the list. Being anywhere but last on the list would have gotten players asking what it was at some point during the game. But putting it last and unobtainable through regular gameplay made Mew as special to us as it was for Game Freak. All you first geners know what I mean. Playing this already amazing game, trying to catch them all, finally succeeding in the Cerulean cave, only to find out later that a friend of yours, another trainer, found another Pokémon. Simply epic.
Actually, not only was Mew was the last Pokémon added to the game (it was added in the space the debug tools were during testing), but all evidence shows this not to be the case. From all evidence (index numbers in Generation I games, early sketches, etc.) as well as Ken Sugimori himself confirming it, the very first Pokémon created was Rhydon*.
Also, the Pokédex more reflects the discovery of Pokémon in universe (as well as our own playthroughs) rather than their chronological existence. Plus, Mew being the first Pokémon ever is in question thanks to the Sinnoh creation myth, which indicates that Arceus created the universe, then created Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf shortly after. It's a Blaziken and the egg scenario.
And the lore of Mew possibly being the ancestor of all Pokémon has more to do with two concepts. The first is Mew's ability to learn every TM, HM, and most move tutors (the only ones it can't learn from simply refuse to teach it to Mew, not that Mew couldn't theoretically learn them). The other being the theme of genetics and evolution (both Pokémon's version as well as real life evolution) that is common throughout Generation I. Influences of the popularity of Jurassic Park lead to dinosaur-esque designs being common as well as the concept of fossil Pokémon. And we also have Eevee's unstable genetic make-up leading it to evolve into multiple Pokémon. And the cherry on top being the Mew duo, with Mewtwo being a genetically engineered super Pokémon and Mew supposedly being the progenitor of all Pokémon.
*I also learned researching this post that two other really early designs are Lapras and Clefairy.
Mew would have been great for a Victini-like position in the Kanto Dex. Like you discover Pokemon 1-150 but then you find Mew who has the Dex number 0. It would thus place him both before his clone but also before all the other Pokemon as the ancestor of them all.
Because you HAVE to vote one or the other (the empire forces you)
The Empire doesn't force me to do anything! Go ask the Star Destroyers with holes blown in their hulls (gee, those Transphasic torpedoes sure are useful!)! I can just leave (or be lazy:P)!
According to the anime, Mewtwo was made from a FOSSILIZED EYEBROW of Mew. "Fossilized" means that it was DEAD. As such, most likely, a LIVING Mewtwo was discovered before a LIVING Mew was discovered. So Mewtwo got to go first in the Pokédex.
That's just my theory, anyways.
That's just my theory, anyways.
I guess it depends which canon we take into account, because the games say that mew gave live birth. And mew being after mewtwo has always bothered me too:/
Mew should be number 150 in my opinion because:
(1) Mewtwo derives from Mew; look at the name "MewTWO" = Mew number 2
(2) The problem derives from RBY which allows us to capture Mewtwo before Mew.
Bein fossilezed is different from being dead in the Pokemon World. There are tons of ancient pokemon brought back to life (i.e. Omanyte, Kabuto, Aereodactyl, Archen and so on).
(1) Mewtwo derives from Mew; look at the name "MewTWO" = Mew number 2
(2) The problem derives from RBY which allows us to capture Mewtwo before Mew.
Bein fossilezed is different from being dead in the Pokemon World. There are tons of ancient pokemon brought back to life (i.e. Omanyte, Kabuto, Aereodactyl, Archen and so on).
Like stated, Mewtwo was "officially" discovered first by the public. Mew was found later.
As for Lando being after Resh/Zek, I just consider that to be a very cheap way to "hide" Kyurem's status as the 3rd legend. Granted, it and Lando are post game, but most of Unova (and Hoenn)'s dex orders are based on the earliest you can catch each poke. And both deer trio and genie duo can be caught before 8th (or 7th even?) gym.
As for Lando being after Resh/Zek, I just consider that to be a very cheap way to "hide" Kyurem's status as the 3rd legend. Granted, it and Lando are post game, but most of Unova (and Hoenn)'s dex orders are based on the earliest you can catch each poke. And both deer trio and genie duo can be caught before 8th (or 7th even?) gym.
Do you want the in-universe answer, or the actual answer?
Considering the fact that Mew was probably the cause of many of the glitches in the first place, it might not have been that much worse.
Although Mew was one of the last to be added, I'm confident I read somewhere that they trademarked 'Mew' years before the release.
You are right (in fact, it was the first trademark applied for all the way back in 1990), but this is the same company that trademarked "WaterBlue Version" and "Delta Emerald". Some ideas might have been developed for Mew early on, but early doesn't equal first.