Research Week: SM Edition [Done]

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Late as fuck, but whatever

I didn't really get a chance to ladder, so I'll just post about Talonflame, since I have used it before this week. Besides, I've heard nothing but mediocre things for band mienshao lol.

Talonflame almost always put in work every battle, its speed tier makes it hard to revenge kill outside of Aerodactyl or Scarf mons, all of which can take a beating from SSSS. I used Talonflame in a bird spam core with Mega Aerodactyl, since most of its checks, which include Clefable, Hippowdon, and Gliscor, are all vulnerable to taking a lot of damage from Talonflame, and combined with taunt, it leaves them unable to do anything to Talonflame most of the time. In this role, Talonflame really excelled as a breaker for me, since I found that because of recoil and weakness to Stealth Rock, Talonflame never really swept. Overall, Talonflame is really good at punishing teams that rely on Clefable, Hippowdon, and Gliscor as their defensive backbone. I haven't really tried out bulky Talonflame, but offensive Talonflame is awesome imo.

Here's the team I used with it, haven't changed it at all for the Terrakion meta, but this team should be able to handle it lol.
Azelf @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Explosion
- Knock Off

Talonflame @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Taunt

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Wing Attack

Scizor @ Iron Plate
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Superpower

Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Trick

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Fire Blast


HO is what this set fits very well on imo, since they appreciate having Talonflame wear down the other team. This team is pretty weak to Scizor though, but regardless I had a lot of fun with it.

Also, I'd like to research Empoleon. RW12 Chief
 
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*sigh* not again
Anyway, my Alolan Persian findings are here, albeit late. Maybe this time I can make it in time.

RW11

Alolan-Persian:
This week, I used the scarf variant of the Tropical variant of Persian.

Persian-Alola (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 8 HP / 248 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Parting Shot
- Switcheroo
- Foul Play
- Taunt


Set discription:
A simple Max Max spread to give the most physical bulk possible while still retaining Alolan-Persian's key speed tier. 52 EVs could be moved from Spe to HP to increase bulk while creeping Base 108s. Still, the scarf set outspeeds most of the tier's relevant scarfers (niche options like Scarf Raikou or Crobat are the exception). Parting Shot is effective for pivoting against offencive Pokémon, dropping their damage output significantly. With Switcheroo, Alolan-Persian can cripple support-oriented Pokémon. Foul Play is a key choice, outspeeding and shutting down sweeps from physical threats. Taunt is useful for further crippling support Pokémon once the scarf is gone.

Despite Fur Coat and the considerable Defense investment, Alolan-Persian still fails to switch into powerful physical threats. However, it takes weaker attacks well.

Note: Due to the Mold Breaker ability, Alolan-Persian cannot switch into Haxorus safely. At +1 though, Persian outspeeds and KOs with Foul Play.

Aerodactyl-Mega
252 Atk Aerodactyl-Mega Stone Edge vs. 8 HP / 248 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 93-109 (34 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 Atk Persian-Alola Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 183-216 (60.7 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Darmanitan:
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 8 HP / 248 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 145-172 (53.1 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Persian-Alola Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 265-313 (75.4 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Haxorus:
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 8 HP / 248 Def Persian-Alola: 255-301 (93.4 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

+1 0 Atk Persian-Alola Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 306-361 (104.4 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Entei:
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 8 HP / 248 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 135-159 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO

0 Atk Persian-Alola Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 178-211 (47.9 - 56.8%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO


Don't do this
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-566507366

Persian cripples Cress and helps beat Shark. Nevermind that he didn't Primarina against me.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-566986293

Alolan-Persian putting in a bunch of work against a more offensive team, shutting down Hazards with Taunt and providing key momentum. 1v1s MAero, ending with a forfeit
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-567128633


EDIT:
Sign up for RW12 as: "RW12.1 Chub"
Something happened. I'm confused too, but w/e.
 
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I wanted to wait until I hit 1400 to post, but Nioh's first DLC came out today and...uh, I'm probably going to be distracted, so here's my thoughts on Empoleon so far :y


Empoleon @ Shuca Berry
Torrent
212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest
- Defog
- Scald / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot / Flash Cannon

Taken straight from the XY analysis page. Offensive Empoleon performs much better than I expected. With HP investment and a Shuca Berry, it lures and KOs a lot of Ground types. Scald is strong enough to get the KOs you need, though Hydro Pump is an option for more powah. Watch the imperfect accuracy though. Ice Beam gets Dragons. Grass Knot with Modest max SpAtk does more to bulky Waters than you'd think. Flash Cannon is a strong neutral hit and 2HKOs Clefable.

I use this with Specs Volcanion and double dance Terrakion to remove the Ground types that threaten to cut their lives short and I'm enjoying it a lot! Maybe the EV spread could be more optimal, but I'm not very good at that sort of thing.

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-568858338 -- Empoleon blows up Mega-Aerodactyl, lures Zydog and gets a second early KO
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-569387838 -- I'm not sure why my opponent sacced Yanmega but Empoleon slays it and then removes Krookodile
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-569422585 -- a small showcase of Empoleon's bulk, even with offensive investment (didn't play my best during this match tho)

One might say this mon is...Empressive :y

EDIT: Here's the team I used to get me into the ~1430s, highest I've ever laddered before. It's not perfect (it has a real nasty Raikou weakness) but it served me well.
Otani Yoshitsugu (Scizor) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower

William Adams (Terrakion) @ Rockium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance

Sanada Yukimura (Volcanion) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Sludge Wave

Saika Magoichi (Empoleon) (M) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Torrent
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot

Honda Tadakatsu (Gliscor) (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 116 SpD / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Ice Fang

Senji Tome (Celebi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 148 SpD / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- U-turn
- Seed Bomb
 
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pokemonisfun

Banned deucer.
I used NP LO Azelf this week on the following team:

Azelf @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Flamethrower
- Dazzling Gleam
Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head

Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Ice Beam
- Destiny Bond

Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Crunch
- Psychic Fangs
- Ice Fang

Scizor @ Metal Coat
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Superpower
- Swords Dance

Latias @ Electrium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunder
- Calm Mind


A quick note on the Azelf set: obviously customize moves to your liking, Fire Blast in particular is always an option to OHKO Celebi after just SR 100% of the time (assuming you hit)

From my games with NP Azelf, I believe:
  • Azelf has the right tools - speed, power and coverage, - to wield NP on hyper offensive teams
  • Bulkier teams like NP Mew more for its ability to tank hits from the likes of Scarf Krookodile mid sweep
  • Maybe consider Z-Thunder Azelf a la Latias?
  • Even though Azelf lacks bulk to consistently set up, Life Orb often augments its power sufficiently
I'm going to leave my analysis at bullet points this week in the interest of time - if anyone wants additional clarification please VM or quote me here.

I'll still have a few replays with short analysis though:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-571051762

Azelf requires some accurate predictions to use properly; this team uses Azelf in conjunction with Latias to kill potential Latias counters (and vice versa). Clearly it did not work out but its also pretty obvious if I predicted right on Conkeldurr I would have won or nearly won the game.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-571365338

Latias weakens Azelf's "counters" - CB Scizor can revenge me and Specs Azelf can tie to revenge me half the time. To be honest, Latias is so effective that any sweeper who does not die to +1 Conkeldurr's Mach Punch could have finished the job but Azelf still performs okay and you can see the synergy

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-571368411

You really could not pick a better team match up for Azelf, assuming the Keldeo was not scarfed as the early forfeit indicates. I guess this replay proves Latias is not a good Azelf counter? And if the opposing team is too slow, it will be shredded if Azelf sets up. Still, the whole Bisharp sack was pretty poor and obvious, the only way to justify that opening is if my opponent thought I wouldn't use Destiny Bond since the nerf

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7uu-571370173

I just thought this was funny; kind of disappointing to have 1300 players play like this and definitely takes off some of the shine of my 1900 ratings.

Overall, I like NP Azelf and there is a certain surprise factor with it that is to the user's benefit. The problems it has (little defensive synergy bar switching into like Hippowdon), 4MSS (it hates being walled by Empoleon and Starmie and Blissey with my set above) can all be covered by its team mates or are not problems at all on HO. The potential to sweep or just break holes is great, and I definitely can envision say Z Thunder to stop spinners like Blastoise.
 

Amane Misa

Bring Them Home Now!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Didn't have time to play enough games with NP Azelf, therefore I don't want to write about it and provide inaccurate information. Oopsie ^^'


Specially Offensive Empoleon
Empoleon is an interesting Pokémon to say the least. It has a very good defensive typing, a decent special attack stat and an okay offensive typing. Other than that, it got good STAB moves in Hydro Pump and Flash Cannon, good coverage in Ice and Grass and a decent ability, Torrent. It also has good support moves such as Stealth Rock and Defog and good set-up moves such as Agility. All in all, Empoleon has the tools to be a specially offensive threat.

Despite that, though its special attack is not bad, it is pretty much held back by it. It does not have a viable way of boosting its special attack stat, other than being in torrent range... though when Empoleon gets to torrent range, it's extremely vulnerable to priority.

At first I was trying an offensive Defog set... it was nothing more than decent. I didn't like it too much because since it doesn't have the bulk the specially defensive defog had, it got worn down so much quicker, even with Wish support. It also failed to check threats it should check such as Clefable (Clefable is not 2HKO'd most of the type by a modest Flash Cannon at +1) unless it got a lucky critical hit or special defense drop. After that, I pretty much gave up on Empoleon... that until Ice Tea shared with me a really cool Agility set, that uses Icium Z as its item (thank you!). It served me as a really fun late game sweeper, that in my opinion was way more viable than the offensive Defog set I wrote about above.

Agility (Empoleon) @ Icium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Flash Cannon
- Ice Beam / Blizzard
- Agility

Offensive Defog (Empoleon) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Flash Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Defog

Code:
Froslass @ Focus Sash 
Ability: Cursed Body 
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe 
Timid Nature 
IVs: 0 Atk 
- Spikes 
- Icy Wind 
- Taunt 
- Destiny Bond 

Empoleon @ Icium Z 
Ability: Torrent 
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe 
Modest Nature 
IVs: 0 Atk 
- Hydro Pump 
- Flash Cannon 
- Ice Beam 
- Agility 

Lucario @ Life Orb 
Ability: Steadfast 
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe 
Timid Nature 
IVs: 0 Atk 
- Nasty Plot 
- Focus Blast 
- Flash Cannon 
- Vacuum Wave 

Bisharp @ Life Orb 
Ability: Defiant 
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe 
Jolly Nature 
- Knock Off 
- Iron Head 
- Sucker Punch 
- Stealth Rock 

Infernape @ Life Orb 
Ability: Blaze 
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe 
Timid Nature 
IVs: 0 Atk 
- Nasty Plot 
- Fire Blast 
- Grass Knot 
- Vacuum Wave 

Gliscor 
Ability: Hyper Cutter 
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe 
Jolly Nature 
- Swords Dance 
- Agility 
- Acrobatics 
- Earthquake
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-572018613 - wallbreaking mid-game
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-572031038 - sweeping late-game
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-572013200 - DD Gliscor is fun
Code:
Empoleon @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Flash Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Defog

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 14 Def / 194 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Toxic

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Knock Off

Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Venomoth @ Buginium Z
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Sludge Bomb

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-568629944 - a pretty good job handling hazards
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-568623444 - getting two kills... somehow
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-568615016 - surprising Nidoking
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-570048503 - not doing the best job handling CM Clefable... luckily my opponent decided to let go of Clefable


Honchkrow
I love Honchkrow Honchkrow is a great Pokémon for hyper offensive builds. It has a very good offensive typing in Flying/Dark which allows it to take on threats most Dark types struggle against, such as Conkeldurr. It has good STAB moves in Brave Bird and Sucker Punch (a good priority!) and it got very good coverage moves, such as Superpower, Icy Wind and Heat Wave (Z-Mirror Move and Z-Snatch are also options!) with a decent special attack stat so it's not THAT impossible for it to fit into a team. In addition to that, it has an amazing ability, Moxie, which every sweeper would like to have. Not only that, Honchkrow really appreciated the Prankster nerf.

Despite all the praising, its defensive typing is not that good and its bad bulk doesn't help it either. It is quite easily revenge killed by Cobalion, Keldeo, Terrakion and healthy Raikou and Mega Aerodactyl (it didn't appreciate the unban of Terrakion at all). Its main STAB, Brave Bird, makes Honchkrow take third the damage dealt as recoil damage.

All in all, I found Honchkrow really fun to use. I used three sets: Z-Mirror Move, Life Orb AoA and Z-Snatch, which all work pretty nice (with Z-Mirror Move being the most viable one in my opinion). I think it should get much more credit than it gets now.

Sweeper / Wallbreaker (Honchkrow) @ Flyinium Z / Life Orb / Darkinium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
- Mirror Move / Heat Wave / Icy Wind / Snatch

Code:
zelfy (Azelf) @ Focus Sash 
Ability: Levitate 
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe 
Naive Nature 
- Stealth Rock 
- Taunt 
- Magic Coat 
- Explosion 

zory (Scizor) @ Life Orb 
Ability: Technician 
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe 
Adamant Nature 
- Swords Dance 
- Bullet Punch 
- Bug Bite 
- Superpower 

sharpy (Bisharp) @ Life Orb 
Ability: Defiant 
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe 
Jolly Nature 
- Swords Dance 
- Iron Head 
- Knock Off 
- Sucker Punch 

krowy (Honchkrow) @ Flyinium Z / Life Orb / Darkinium Z
Ability: Moxie 
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe 
Naughty Nature 
- Brave Bird 
- Sucker Punch 
- Superpower 
- Mirror Move / Heat Wave / Icy Wind / Snatch

tiasy (Latias) @ Life Orb 
Ability: Levitate 
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe 
Timid Nature 
IVs: 0 Atk 
- Draco Meteor 
- Psyshock 
- Hidden Power [Fire] 
- Recover 

pedy (Sharpedo-Mega) @ Sharpedonite 
Ability: Speed Boost 
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe 
Adamant Nature 
- Protect 
- Crunch 
- Waterfall 
- Psychic Fangs
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-568420033 - snatching Gliscor's Substitute (cool as hell lmao)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-570116639 - wallbreaking mid-game
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-570114740 - taking on some weird Nidoking stall
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-568420843 - failing to break past Gliscor

Thanks for reading!
 

esche

Frust kommt auf, denn der Bus kommt nicht
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

Azelf @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Flamethrower
- Dazzling Gleam
- Nasty Plot

just a little variation on a rather standard np set. colbur helps azelf immensly not having to play sucker punch mindgames and avoiding to be pursuit trapped. sth else that came up quite frequently was surviving dark pulse from scarf hydrei turn 1, excpecting a sash lead set, and retaliating with gleam for an ohko. pretty cool mon but doesn't have any place other than on hyper offense imo as every other playstyle probably benefits more from the defensive merits that mew and celebi provide.

replay#1: azelf manages to deal 50 to av bisharp thanks to colbur berry so that physdef klefki woulda killed w/ 2 play roughs anyway provided no flinch or atk drop.
doesnt even come to that tho - goat.
replay#2: azelf avoids the trap from scarf krook and successfully retaliates back.
replay#3: my impeccable playing w/ decidueye manages to overcome the one and only cacturne.
azelf fortunately does not flinch and takes out the scarf drei w/ gleam due to colbur berry.

grats pif
 
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Azelf
Nasty Plot Azelf is a somewhat burdened in SMUU. Teams without some form of Priority are rare, and with its middling bulk, combined with Life Orb recoil, Azelf is often knocked out easily.

Azelf has one of the most vulnerable typings - Psychic, since most Priority moves hit neutrally, and Dark-Types are fairly common. Resisting Mach Punch is an unexpected boon.

Scarfers are common; these Pokémon invalidate Azelf's high speed and abuse its middling bulk. Sitting somewhat uncomfortably at the 115 Speed tier, the Willpower Pokémon competes with many Pokémon who have superior bulk.

However, Azelf has several strong points. Nasty Plot boost Azelf's decent 125 SpA to powerful levels, and it has enough coverage to hit most Pokémon neutrally.
Obviously running Dazzling Gleam to hit the Dark-Types immune to Azelf's STAB Psyshock (or Psychic), and Flamethrower (or Fire Blast), this coverage hits most things for neutral damage.

With the ability to hit on both sides (Physical and Special) and the powerful boosting move, Nasty Plot, Azelf can effectively wallbreak.

Azelf @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flamethrower


Honchkrow
Honchkrow is quite a mediocre Pokémon, possessing a meagre speed and low bulk for such an offensive Pokémon. While STAB Brave Bird is very powerful, the lack of reliable methods of boosting holds it back. While Z-Snatch and Z-Mirror Move give 2+ Atk, the abundance of fast Fighting-Types means that Honchkrow gets taken out.

Honchkrow (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
- Roost
 
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ehT

:dog:
is a Contributor Alumnus
Week 12 is now over. Congratulations pokeisfun for winning this week!

Honchkrow saw some mixed results. Amane Misa got good mileage out of a mixed set, which allows it to hit things like Cobalion and Bisharp. However, its poor bulk and Speed leaves it extremely prone to faster Pokemon that can eat a Sucker Punch, mainly faster Fighting-types, making it much more high-maintenance than, say, Talonflame, a roughly similar Flying-type sweeper. Its biggest niche is in its ability to blow up most slower things with Brave Bird and deter a good number of potential revenge killers with Sucker Punch, but the ubiquity of counterplay to Sucker Punch as well as Honchkrow's tendency to get worn down extremely quickly renders this moot in most matchups, as was confirmed by Pikachuboy01. 9 times out of 10, Bisharp is a better choice due to its superior defensive utility and consistent Dark STAB, but Brave Bird is still very scary.

Nasty Plot Azelf got generally positive feedback this week. Overall, everyone found that its wide coverage, high Speed, and ability to choose between a Life Orb, Z Move, or a Colbur Berry gives it a very unique ability to break through teams however you need it to. As pokeisfun found, though, this wide variety of options is a double-edged sword, as you're forced to concede a bad match-up versus at least one important threat or playstyle. Life Orb, as Pikachuboy01 discovered, lacks longevity, and a competent opponent can easily pivot around until Azelf is in range of a Bullet Punch / Sucker Punch / fast Pursuit; Lord Esche found that a Colbur Berry with the appropriate coverage move can help you lure faster Dark-types (namely Choice Scarf Hydreigon) and Bisharp, but trades a large amount of power to do so; a Z Move does the same for the ability to nuke a check like Empoleon or Latias, but again forfeits consistent power; and no matter what coverage you choose, you will find yourself walled by at least one common Pokemon. All in all, Nasty Plot Azelf is a relatively niche Pokemon, but it can excel if you gear it towards the correct matchup.

Offensive Empoleon, as Rawbi found, takes advantage of a good number of meta trends, giving it a niche over the typical specially defensive set. Namely, if it's carrying a Shuca Berry, it can take advantage of teams that use Earthquake users like Zygarde-10% and Krookodile to check Steel-types, while still having the power and coverage to hit the things it's supposed to check defensively, primarily Clefable and Primarina, hard.

Here is week 13's selection:

Heracross @ filler item
filler ability
filler evs
filler nature
-
-
-
-

Ninetales @ filler item
Ability: Drought
filler evs
filler nature
-
-
-
-

Swellow @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid nature
- Boomburst
-
-
-


Heracross a rather overlooked Pokemon this generation, mostly due to the influx of heaps of Fighting-type competition in the transition from ORAS, but it still has a lot going for it. The nerf to burn damage makes a Swords Dance Flame Orb set a very scary prospect for many balance teams, while a Choice Band set boasts higher Speed and an arguably better STAB over its competition in Conkeldurr and Scizor. The lack of priority and only passable bulk makes its matchup versus offence tough, however.

Drought Ninetales is often found at the heart of any standard sun offense teams, but in particular thanks to Z-Moves and access to Nasty Plot, it is also rather potent on its own. Venusaur can be an extra for a core that abuses sun rather than a full sun team, but is not required. Its wallbreaking capability, solid coverage, and utility options all give it offensive presence that its main competition, Torkoal, utterly lacks.

And lastly, Choice Specs Swellow is a scary anti-offence Pokemon this generation due to the Special Attack buff it received, which made made Scrappy Boomburst only more spammable. However, it has to contend with a number of even faster Pokemon, most notably Mega Aerodactyl, as well as the plethora of Steel-types that are found on nearly every team. For this reason, U-Turn is highly recommended, as is more consistent counterplay to Steel-types than Heat Wave.

As always, sign up with a fresh RW alt, and post your results, as well as your own thoughts on the Pokemon in question. You are free to edit your signup post if your post count is a concern. Since we were late getting this week off the ground (sorry!), this week's deadline will be Saturday, May 13th, at 11:59 pm GMT+2. My co-host Ark or I will check everyone's ladder scores then and decide the winner. Good luck everyone!
 
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Amane Misa

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Very little time, I don't have time to do a full analysis of the three, was a bit short on time ^^'

Heracross:
I only tried the Flame Orb Stallbreaker / Wallbreaker. It was really fun to use. It really destroys stall, as it 2HKOs anything barring Eviolite Tangela, which is not found on any stall but pif's. It has a good bulk and access to Swords Dance, which takes its breaking abilities to another level. Its Bug typing though doesn't really help it - it gives Heracross more weaknesses, makes Stealth Rock's damage neutral and Megahorn doesn't hit anything Close Combat / Facade / Knock Off don't. Ground resistance is nice however, as it makes it easier to beat Krookodile 1v1. A great partner is Krookodile, both have a great defensive synergy and Krookodile Pursuit traps faster Pokémon that threaten Heracross, mainly Latias.

Drought Ninetales:
An exceptional wallbreaker with a very few true counters. Thanks to Sun boosting Fire type attacks, Ninetales 2HKOs almost anything that doesn't resist Fire. Its access to Nasty Plot only furthers its wallbreaking potential. However, when Sun is ended, Ninetales isn't as strong as it is (base 81 SpA isn't impressive whatsoever), it is really vulnerable to faster Pokémon and its Stealth Rock weakness is just annoying. I can only see Firium Z being a potential item on it too, makes it pretty much one dimensional.

Choice Specs Swellow:
Swellow is such a dangerous wallbreaker that no builder really prepares for it. It at least 3HKOs most resists to it and 2HKOs most neutrals, the only two things that switch-in safely to it are healthy Blissey and defensive Porygon2. I ran Boomburst / U-turn / Sleep Talk on it, so it can be a great sleep absorber too. The only things that really stop it are the mentioned blobs, Pursuit Mega Aerodactyl that traps it and the resists that are 3HKO'd by it and OHKO / 2HKO back. It is best to send it out late-game since it is vulnerable to Stealth Rocks and rarely OHKOs from full.
 

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Finals are over so i'm gonna ladder with some heracross today real quick

RW13 Cake


UPDATE:

At 1202 right now after tilting a bit, I'll give some preliminary thoughts from this first session I did.

This week I used Swords Dance Guts Heracross. From my findings so far, it's a very good wallbreaker. Its decent speed tier and ability to absorb status make it capable of setting up a swords dance very easily on the likes of Swampert and Hippowdon, and then ohkoing them before they can phaze you out. The primary issue I've had with Heracross is getting it safely onto the field. It would probably really enjoy VoltTurn support, but I don't have any of it on the team I'm using. Usually, I end up needing to sack something to bring it in, unfortunately.

All-in-all, though, it's a pretty nice mon.

SECOND UPDATE:

I think I'm done for now. Peaked at the high 1300s.
Came up with some more of my thoughts and some replays.

Hera's also pretty good at just demolishing slower teams in general, as it is capable of ohkoing a great portion of the tier at +2. It's also pretty good at absorbing scalds thanks to its actually pretty decent special bulk and the Flame Orb. I've just been having more success with it as my testing continues.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-575820440
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-575807351
 
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