Gen 3 Random Battle (LIVE!)

Hey guys, Gang here. I have been topping the gen 3 ladder for a few years now and also played gen 3 for Team Victini this year, so i'd say I have a pretty good feel for gen 3 randbats.

So after the set revamp was announced I was really hyped to see some new sets and updates to wack ones. But overall this revamp has been a very mixed bag for me. It certainly isn't all bad, but I feel like certain things were removed leaving some pokemon with a lot less options overall. Especially the legendary dragons were ruined in this update.
I've decided to share my thoughts on every pokemon in the format. I hope this will be useful for you guys.

Absol: Could have Substitute, Double edge, Toxic, Rock Slide

Aerodactyl: Toxic on Sub sets

Aggron: Adding toxic would be ok to keep opponents guessing, its easy to predict Twave

Aipom: Toxic and Thief would be cool options. Body slam would be ok.

Alakazam: Ice Punch for sure, Thunder wave would be viable too.

Altaria: is mostly fine, altho ice beam would be a cool option

Ampharos: Toxic would be good

Arbok: Choice band would be ok, maybe add Iron tail as a 4th option

Arcanine: -

Ariados: wants toxic for pressure, and substitute for the BP set.

Armaldo: Knock off would be a cool tech to add

Articuno: -

Azumarill: Body slam is a decent option, especially for a slow mon

Banette: Toxic

Beautifly: Toxic, he already struggles to pressure anything

Beedrill: Substitute on non-endure sets, works well with a berry and swarm

Bellossom: -

Blastoise: Rapid spin on non-rest sets

Blaziken: Maybe a choice set with EQ and overheat could work

Blissey: -

Breloom: -

Butterfree: Whirlwind would be decent

Cacturne: -

Camerupt: Overheat is viable, especially on choice band sets

Castform: I can see why the weather sets are removed, I gotta say they aren’t great. But its sad to not see it using its niche. Rain dance with thunder / Sunny day with solar beam are def not that bad. The hail set should prob not be used.

Celebi: A physical SD set with BP would def be viable. Substitute on Leech seed sets is good too. I feel like toxic should be on a set too with recover.

Charizard: The sets are ok. Charizard is a very versatile mon and maybe there could be more sets, especially on the special side.

Chimecho: -

Claydol: Refresh could be ok

Clefable: Honestly, Clefable is fine. But he has a movepool ocean that is begging to be used. Just to name a few that could be used: Body slam, Cosmic power, Encore, Fire blast, Meteor mash, Thunder wave, Toxic, Wish. I think Clefable should be unpredictable, and currently it uses like 2 sets, which is sad.

Cloyster: Maybe toxic would be ok, but its fine.

Corsola: Mirror coat would def make special attackers think twice

Cradily: It’s sad to see Amnesia being removed. It used it very well. IMO it should return

Crawdaunt: -

Crobat: Pretty sure it had taunt before, would be nice to see it return.

Delcatty: Not sure why the Calm mind set and Subtitute had to be removed. Delcatty is a mediocre pokemon at best, giving it only one set to work with makes it even worse.

Delibird: Delibird is hella cool, and the Choice band set works, but its sad to see that being its only set. A support set with Rapid spin and toxic could def work and makes the opponent think twice.

Deoxys: Thunderbolt is def usable

Deoxys-A: Why does it only run one set of moves now? It can def run a special moveset. Where did psycho boost go, its strongest move? This mon should be fixed.

Deoxys-D: Knock off was removed but its def usable. A CM set is viable too.

Deoxys-S: Thunderbolt is def usable

Dewgong: -

Ditto: Don’t think leftovers is a bad item on it, not sure why its removed. Metal powder doesn’t even work after you transform.

Dodrio: -

Donphan: -

Dragonite: Let’s bring back substitute and focus punch. Honestly, Substitute is so good on Dragonite, why was it removed? So many pokemon can't break its sub. Also not sure why Thunderbolt was removed, its good on it. Thunder wave could work too.

Dugtrio: I personally don’t like the lefties version of Dugtrio, its too frail to use it. If you want to give it lefties and substitute, at least give it toxic so it can stall out some mons. Also ,why is the liechi berry with substitute removed? That one at least made sense if you run 3 attacking moves beside it.

Dunsparce: Resttalk seems like it could be a useable set.

Dusclops: Perhaps Memento could see a use here on sets without resttalk, but its ok.

Dustox: -

Electabuzz: Thunder wave seems like a good fit. Focus punch could be used on substitute sets.

Electrode: I think Toxic should return on it, especially since its so fast it can toxic many things.

Entei: -

Espeon: -

Exeggutor: Substitute and Stun spore are good options

Exploud: Overheat and toxic can be added

Farfetch’d: Flail- sub-salac is def a good option. I also think sub should be added regardless for safe BPs and scouting.

Fearow: -

Feraligatr: I think feraligatr is so underwhelming because it doesn’t get ice beam. Ice beam covers so many things, it should def be added. Also its sad to see substitute being removed on this mon.

Flareon: Choice band with overheat could def work on this mon, it has 130 base attack already.

Flygon: I think subtitute is a good fit for this mon.

Forretress: Please bring back earthquake, its a good fit for it. It’s really easy to switch in something now with EQ being removed from the pool.

Furret: Lefties and Focus punch could be added, especially with substitute.

Gardevoir: Ice punch, thunder wave and memento

Gengar: Taunt and Giga drain can def make a return.

Girafarig: Thunder wave

Gligar: I have won many battles with salac- substitute Gligar and its sad to see its removal. It would be neat to see it come back.

Golduck: It’s fine, altho I think cross chop is a viable option for it.

Golem: Rock blast is a cool tech, but honestly its way too unreliable in practice. I’d use Rock slide or HP rock over it any day. Would prefer if they came back.

Gorebyss: No reason to remove lefties on it, its def usable.

Granbull: sub and focus punch are a good option for him

Groudon: -

Grumpig: -

Gyarados: Why is substitute gone? It was def one of his best moves, especially with intimidate. Please bring it back.

Hariyama: Knock off could be ok

Heracross: I think facade is.. very situational. Even with sleeptalk id rather have megahorn/brick break/SD. Also, bring back sub focus punch, it kills everything.

Hitmonchan: Substitute has to come back, along with focus punch

Hitmonlee: Endure is viable with reversal salac.

Hitmontop: It needs toxic as a defensive pivot pokemon. Also with bulk up I think substitute is good.

Ho-oh: its moves are a bit weird. Shadow ball feels random, hidden power rock is even worse. I had a ho-oh in a recent tournament game with reflect and that won me the game, sad to see it go. Whirlwind was also a decent option. I also think t-wave is a great move for it.

Houndoom: There is a case for toxic being on a set, I would use it a lot. Sunny day and solar beam aren’t bad either.

Huntail: Bring back crunch imo, it was a decent 3rd move.

Hypno: Thunder wave could be good, making the opponent guess which of the 3 status moves you will have gives it a lot of power. Substitute with BP could be decent.

Illumise: -

Jirachi: Give it ice punch, its really good on him. Doom desire is kinda cheesy but it def viable and could be cool. It can use toxic and twave too.

Jolteon: Give it roar and t-wave

Jumpluff: Stun spore would give it more options.

Jynx: -

Kabutops: Substitute would be nice. Endure could be decent with flail and salac. Knock off is decent.

Kangaskhan: Give it wish back along with protect. Toxic could work. I don’t see why body slam was removed, its a great option. Same with double-edge.

Kecleon: -

Kingdra: I used dragon breath a lot when it still had it, its a great move to predict switches and have a chance for a para.

Kingler: Substitute could be added. Choice band with double-edge is also viable.

Kyogre: it does have a few more decent moves, like thunder wave. But honestly it wouldn’t make the mon better, he’s already top tier.

Lanturn: Give it toxic again to threaten 2 types of status.

Lapras: -

Latios: I have to say, refresh was such a good addition, altho it did make latios a bit too good imo. Besides that, I’m really not sure why latios options were removed. It only gets 2 attacking moves now? No stab psychic? Ice beam and tbolt are really good on it too, and makes a 4 attacking set possible. Thunder wave and toxic are usable on more stally sets. Roar could work.

Latias: Same notes as Latios, not sure why the movesets for them are ruined now. This mon def wants toxic or twave.

Ledian: Give it toxic so it can at least do something. Also give it back substitute, its really good on SD BP sets.

Lickitung: Counter is a good move for it.

Linoone: -

Ludicolo: Sets without Rain dance could use toxic.

Lugia: Twave is def a decent option.

Lunatone: Substitute is good, he wants it for sure.

Luvdisc: You def want substitute when you are using toxic and sweet kiss.

Machamp: -

Magcargo: -

Magmar: Substitute and focus punch are good on this mon.

Magneton: -

Manectric: -

Marowak: I’ve seen bonemerang and EQ on the same set multiple times now, and its pretty weird. Altho I don’t think bonemerang is that great, it certainly has a niche but I wouldn’t use both on the same set.

Masquerain: -

Mawile: It can use toxic well.

Medicham: Focus punch can be used with sub.

Meganium: -

Metagross: -

Mew: SD set could be added for variety along with some physical moves.

Mewtwo: Bring back taunt

Mightyena: I personally preferred body slam over double-edge, I hope it can make a return.

Milotic: Hypnosis can be good. Refresh too.

Miltank: Substitute would be nice on some sets. Thunder wave is good too for the 100% para.

Minun: It needs the hidden powers back. Right now its always mono Thunderbolt which is really predictable and bad. Thunder wave and toxic are options too. Even agility is fine on a BP set.

Misdreavus: I think it would benefit from having Twave and Toxic

Moltres: Roar should be an option.

Mr.Mime: Ice punch should be an option.

Muk: I personally liked having Fire blast sometimes.

Murkrow: Thunder wave and toxic are good on him

Nidoking: Bring back substitute and salac berry, I think it fit him very well. Also focus punch is cool with sub.

Nidoqueen: Same as Nidoking, bring back substitute

Ninetales: Same with houndoom, I think toxic makes a lot of sense here. Grass/fire is walled by a lot of pokemon. Being able to toxic them before they perhaps sub, because you are so fast makes a lot of sense.

Ninjask: -

Noctowl: I personally think feather dance would be a cool tech for it, but its fine.

Nosepass: -

Octillery: -

Omastar: -

Parasect: he’s really bad atm. Just a spore bot. It really need stun spore so you can at least predict switches and threaten more status after sporing someone.

Pelipper: I think a hidden power varient would be decent for pelipper. Either grass or electric.

Persian: Fake out could be added for some free chip

Pidgeot: -

Pikachu: -

Piloswine: -

Pinsir: It really wants substitute. Brick break was a viable option too. Bulk up has potential if you have substitute.

Plusle: Probably wants either toxic or thunder wave. Funnily enough, Plusle does get HP grass while minun doesn’t. Very odd.

Politoed: -

Poliwrath: Give it focus punch again if it gets substitute.

Porygon2: Tri attack could be decent alternative for Return, but it is a lot weaker. Just a thought.

Primeape: -

Quagsire: -

Qwilfish: I feel like twave could be really good on him. It can use substitute on SD sets.

Raichu: Twave isnt bad. Rain dance with thunder and surf could be really cool, but im not sure if its good enough.

Raikou: -

Rapidash: It really wants toxic to not be walled hard by certain mons (same as ninetales/houndoom)

Raticate: It could run a set with twave and lefties, but its fine tbh.

Rayquaza: His movepool is really bad now. I feel like its just some uber moves atm. Hidden power ghost is weird, he doesn’t need this coverage. I’d rather have HP flying on him any day. It wants rock slide for some more coverage and flinch chance. Its special attack is the same as its attack, so a special moveset should be there for sure. Ice beam, Thunderbolt and Surf should all see use. Substitute is nice on DD sets. Def need some changes on this mon.

Regice: Seems a bit predictable, I think toxic could be fine on it.

Regirock: -

Registeel: Why was thunder wave removed? It really needs it to scare certain things out.

Relicanth: It’s not the best rain dance sweeper out there, but it can def work on him, Something like RD, hydro pump, rock slide and EQ would be a good set.

Rhydon: Same as golem, bring back Rock slide or HP rock instead of Rock blast.

Roselia: -

Sableye: -

Salamence: Another victim of moves being removed for no reason. Flamethrower, Dragon claw, Hydro pump are all viable on him. He could even use wish. Substitute should be added on certain DD sets, its a nice addition.

Sandslash: -

Sceptile: -

Scizor: Substitute can be good on certain sets, especially BP ones.

Scyther: Same story, substitute is good.

Seaking: -

Seviper: Bring back substitute

Sharpedo: His movepool looks a bit wack but yeah, sharpedo is weird before gen 4. Substitute was really good on him, and he should get it again, especially with a petaya berry

Shedinja: -

Shiftry: I think HP grass should be an option on non-sunny day sets. Also bring back feint attack, or introduce HP dark. Would be nice to get some stab options on him.

Shuckle: -

Skarmory: -

Slaking: Please remove leftovers, Slaking really only wants choice band.

Slowbro: Fire blast could be an option;

Slowking: -

Smeargle: -

Sneasel: its begging to get substitute back. Also, I know sneasels spatk is really bad, but since many things are 4x weak against ice, its still an ok option.

Snorlax: -

Solrock: -

Spinda: It’s really meh, I feel like toxic would at least give it some pressure.

Stantler: Give it a choice band set. It has enough phsyical moves to use it well. It also probably wants twave and sub

Starmie: Really wants rapid spin. Thunder wave would be decent too in some scenarios

Steelix: Could have sleep talk

Sudowoodo: -

Suicune: -

Sunflora: Really wants toxic to threaten stuff

Swalot: it’s atk and spatk are the same, why were options like ice beam and thunder punch removed? I’d love to see them back.

Swampert: A curse set could work.

Swellow: -

Tangela: Wants substitute, which works really well with sleep powder and leech seed.

Tauros: -

Tentacruel: give it back sludge bomb. A physical set with SD, Sludge bomb, HP ground and another move could work wonders for it.

Togetic: Body slam could work with serene grace. Altho its attack is really low.. not sure. He def wants toxic tho

Torkoal: -

Tropius: Prob wants a flying type move, either hp flying or aerial ace. He also gets SD which isnt great but its not bad either. EQ is good too.

Typhlosion: -

Tyranitar: Thunder wave can be good.

Umbreon: I think any set without toxic is really really bad. I’d personally force toxic on it. Substitute could be used with BP.

Unown: -

Ursaring: Body slam is an option over return

Vaporeon: Sub, acid armor and BP are options. Especially with wish you could wishpass.

Venomoth: wants stun spore to threaten 2 types of status

Venusaur: Really wants a grass move to threaten with stab from that side. HP grass or razor leaf

Victreebel: SD set with HP ground and sludge bomb works well, shouldn’t have been removed.

Vigoroth: Focus punch seems really random, would rather see brick break in that slot. Have to be careful tho, Vigoroth is already really good.

Vileplume: Stun spore could be good.

Volbeat: Substitute could be an option

Wailord: -

Walrein: -

Weezing: Probably wants toxic to threaten double status sometimes

Whiscash: -

Wigglytuff: has an insane movepool that sadly goes unused. Moves it could use: Counter, Body slam, Thunder wave, Reflect, Light screen, Physical moves with a choice band.

Wobbuffet: -

Xatu: Really wants substitute again. Also, resttalk was used because it has early bird. Don't think its that bad

Yanma: Bring back signal beam

Zangoose: HP ground is ok, Substitute could be added too.

Zapdos: Drill pick would be good.

I hope this helps! If anyone disagrees with my thoughts or wants to know more feel free to respond. I'm willing to elaborate any of my standpoints :)
 
Last edited:

BP

Beers and Steers
is a Contributor to Smogon
I would like to propose a change to the Kyorge set in ADV Randbats. As it stands Kyrogre is an extremely threatening Pokemon in Randbats due to its insane base stats. This coupled with its access to Drizzle and access to both Thunder and Water-type STAB makes it incredibly powerful. Furthermore, it is oftentimes seen with Calm Mind and Rest. Kyogre almost always wins the game when it's given the chance to come in for free late game or sets up early game.

As of right now, Kyogre has the potential to run the following:
Calm Mind, Ice Beam, Rest, Sleep Talk, Surf, Thunder, Water Spout

Here is my proposal to make Kyogre more balanced for ADV Randbats
- Kyogre
Remove: Calm Mind
Calm Mind from my perspective is what completely pushes Kyogre over the edge. It allows it ample setup opportunity when coupled with Rest and it allows it to OHKO essentially everything with its STAB and 100% accurate Thunder. However, if we do not remove Calm Mind than I say we opt for running CM 3 attacks because CM + Rest is way too much for Randbats. CM + Rest is an all reward little risk set and frankly has made laddering significantly less fun.
 
I would like to propose a change to the Kyorge set in ADV Randbats. As it stands Kyrogre is an extremely threatening Pokemon in Randbats due to its insane base stats. This coupled with its access to Drizzle and access to both Thunder and Water-type STAB makes it incredibly powerful. Furthermore, it is oftentimes seen with Calm Mind and Rest. Kyogre almost always wins the game when it's given the chance to come in for free late game or sets up early game.

As of right now, Kyogre has the potential to run the following:
Calm Mind, Ice Beam, Rest, Sleep Talk, Surf, Thunder, Water Spout

Here is my proposal to make Kyogre more balanced for ADV Randbats
- Kyogre
Remove: Calm Mind
Calm Mind from my perspective is what completely pushes Kyogre over the edge. It allows it ample setup opportunity when coupled with Rest and it allows it to OHKO essentially everything with its STAB and 100% accurate Thunder. However, if we do not remove Calm Mind than I say we opt for running CM 3 attacks because CM + Rest is way too much for Randbats. CM + Rest is an all reward little risk set and frankly has made laddering significantly less fun.
Hey man,

I've thought about making a tier list for gen 3 randbats for a long time and I will probably end up doing it some day. But Kyogre would definitely be rank 1 on that list.

While I do agree Kyogre is way too powerful and probably has an insane win ratio, I personally don't think we should do movepool based balancing. It would create a lot of edge cases about what exact moves are too broken (Groudon SD, Vigoroth Bulk Up). Pokemon running sub-optimal moves because otherwise they would be too good seems pretty lame to me.

Right now balance is tier based, the higher your tier in standard play, the lower level you will be. I do think if a revamp were to happen that Kyogre should get a lower level. If Kyogre were to drop some speed and special attack because of being a lower level, it would be a lot easier to counter and will miss some crucial KO's it does get right now.
I'd personally be very interested in a new system anyway, and I hope one day it will happen.
 

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