Gen 1 Poliwag [DONE]

Gangsta Spongebob

"Mama I'm a Criminal" - Badass Smoking Caterpillar
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
[OVERVIEW]

Poliwag's blistering base 90 Speed and access to Hypnosis make it the fastest sleeper in the tier. Once it puts something to sleep, it can turn into a dangerous sweeper thanks to Amnesia. However, Poliwag's awful bulk leaves it completely reliant on landing Hypnosis to find any opportunities to set up, rendering it horribly inconsistent. To make matters worse, Poliwag struggles to OHKO targets weak to its Surf at +2, incentivizing further inconsistency by using Hydro Pump to reach these crucial damage rolls. Its Speed, while great, is still worse than several common threats, such as Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine. When choosing a sleeper, teams usually prefer the better offensive and defensive utility from Gastly and Drowzee, and Seaking is usually preferred as a Water-type setup sweeper. Thus, Poliwag should be used with extreme caution due to its reward often being lower than its risk.

[SET]
name: Amnesia Sweeper
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Amnesia
move 3: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 4: Psychic

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Hypnosis lets Poliwag put a foe to sleep and provides an opening to use Amnesia, which lets it 2HKO most foes and avoid a 2HKO from Thunderbolt and other special attacks. The choice between Hydro Pump and Surf is a matter of power versus consistency; Poliwag is already reliant on a very inaccurate move, further complicating this choice. While both Surf and Hydro Pump 2HKO most neutral targets, like Pinsir, some threats that are 2HKOed by a +2 Hydro Pump, such as Machamp and Porygon, either avoid or have extremely low odds to be 2HKOed by a +2 Surf. Additionally, a +2 Surf is incapable of OHKOing Nidoqueen and Arcanine and has extremely low odds of OHKOing Rapidash, while +2 Hydro Pump has high odds to OHKO the former pair and will always OHKO the latter. Psychic is Poliwag's best attack against Water-types, like Staryu and Seaking; while Hydro Pump does similar amounts of damage, Psychic's higher accuracy and chance for a Special drop give it solid odds to 2HKO the former and 3HKO the latter at +2. It also helps against Grass-types, as after an Amnesia boost it has decent odds to 2HKO Vileplume, and it will always 2HKO Weepinbell.

Poliwag is an effective lead due to its high Speed and access to a sleep-inducing move, though it can also be used as an endgame cleaner. Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine are common threats that Poliwag loses to quite badly; Omanyte is a great partner, as it switches into all three of them. Paralysis is a great way to handle these faster threats, so Poliwag also appreciates support from Thunder Wave users like Dragonair and Porygon. Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine themselves make great partners, as they can trade hits with each other and eliminate the status spreaders that give Poliwag trouble.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Blizzard can be used over Psychic, exchanging the ability to break through Water-types and fish for Special drops to instead hit Fearow and Dragonair for super effective damage and reach higher damage ranges against Grass-types. However, even at +2 Blizzard fails to OHKO Fearow and Dragonair, and Fearow is 2HKOed by a +2 Surf anyway.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fearow**: Fearow outspeeds Poliwag and has a 33.3% chance to OHKO it using Hyper Beam, while it can't even OHKO Fearow with +2 Hydro Pump or Blizzard.

**Water-types**: Barring Special drops, Seaking isn't even 3HKOed by +2 Psychic, and it can KO Poliwag with a combination of Double-Edge and Hyper Beam. Staryu struggles to deal damage to a boosted Poliwag without critical hits and is 3HKOed by +2 Psychic, but it can cripple Poliwag with Thunder Wave. While rare, Slowpoke resists all of Poliwag's attacks, can paralyze it with Thunder Wave, and can use it as setup fodder for its own Amnesia. However, given that they're all slower, these threats must watch out for Hypnosis.

**Fire-types**: Arcanine can outspeed and 2HKO Poliwag with Body Slam and Hyper Beam, though a +2 Hydro Pump has a 66.7% chance to OHKO it. While +2 Hydro Pump always OHKOes them, Rapidash and Magmar can also outspeed and KO Poliwag using a combination of Body Slam and Hyper Beam. Besides winning the one-on-one, all of these Fire-types can easily revenge kill a weakened Poliwag. However, these Pokemon struggle to switch in due to their weakness to Water.

**Weepinbell**: Though rare, Weepinbell can easily tank a +2 Psychic or Blizzard and OHKO Poliwag regardless of boosts using Razor Leaf.

**Paralysis**: Poliwag's paltry initial power leaves it vulnerable to paralysis spreaders like Abra, Vileplume, Dragonair, Drowzee, and Porygon once Sleep Clause is in effect. Once paralyzed, it is easily overwhelmed by most foes due to its low bulk.

[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gangsta-spongebob.535530/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sabelette.583793/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gastlies.540559/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sabelette.583793/
 
Last edited:

Sabelette

from the river to the sea
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
QC 1/2

[OVERVIEW]

Poliwag's blistering fast base 90 Speed and access to Hypnosis make it the fastest sleeper in the tier. Once it puts something to sleep, it can turn into a dangerous sweeper thanks to Amnesia. However, Poliwag's awful bulk leaves it reliant on Hypnosis landing, rendering it horribly inconsistent. To make matters worse, Poliwag's terrible Special leaves it struggling to OHKO targets weak to its STAB even at +2. Finally, its Speed, while great, leaves it outsped by several common threats such as Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine. (less "leaves it" please) Poliwag's suffers from consistency issues as well as its reward often being much lower than its risk, and thus it should be used with extreme caution.

[SET]
name: Amnesia Sweeper
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Amnesia
move 3: Hydro Pump (i'm a little wary of not slashing Surf but I acknowledge +2 Pump OHKOes Queen and hits a lot of 2HKO thresholds; still, someone might be okay with taking the consistency of "sleep one thing, hit the next thing for a ton" much like with NU Whirl, which had the same exact threshold question.)
move 4: Psychic

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Hypnosis combined with Poliwag's Speed make it the fastest sleeper in the tier. Amnesia boosts Poliwag's Special, increasing its otherwise meager damage output and making it bulkier on the special side (reword to drop the dex info and talk about what this actually does in practice, i.e. makes it 2HKO most of the tier and survive a lot of special attackers that might try to check it). Hydro Pump is Poliwag's primary STAB attack. (say what thresholds this hits that matter) Psychic lets Poliwag threaten Water-types like Staryu and Seaking, while also hitting rare Grass-types like Vileplume and Weepinbell super effectively due to their part-Poison typing. (give some XHKO numbers)

Poliwag is an effective lead due to its high Speed and access to a sleep move, though it can also be used as an endgame cleaner. Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine are common threats that Poliwag loses to quite badly, so Omanyte is a great partner as it switches into all three of them. Paralysis is a great way to handle these faster threats, so Poliwag also appreciates the support of Thunder Wave users like Dragonair and Porygon. Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine themselves make great partners, as they can trade with each other and eliminate the rare Grass-types that give Poliwag trouble. (I don't think the grasses really give Wag trouble, especially not Plume)

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Blizzard can be used over Psychic (why not over Hydro? still hits Queen, albeit worse, hits Fearow and Dnair even if worse everywhere else), exchanging the ability to hit Water-types for neutral damage to instead hit Fearow (and dnair) for super effective damage while also offering higher damage ranges against Grass-types. However, even at +2 Blizzard fails to 2HKO Fearow (it fails to OHKO by a bit, but it does 2HKO with ease; however, even Surf 2HKOs Fearow at +2). Surf can be used as a more accurate STAB attack over Hydro Pump, but Surf at +2 is incapable of OHKOing Nidoqueen and Arcanine, and has extremely low odds of OHKOing Rapidash, while Hydro Pump at +2 has high odds to OHKO the former two and will always OHKO the latter. (even more important IMO is the calcs on neutral targets like Machamp and Pinsir so do those too

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fearow**: Fearow outspeeds Poliwag and has a 33.3% chance to OHKO it using Hyper Beam, while it can't even OHKO Fearow with Hydro Pump or Blizzard at +2.

**Water-types**: Seaking isn't 2HKOed by even a boosted Psychic and can KO Poliwag with a combination of Double-Edge and Hyper Beam. While rare, Slowpoke resists all of Poliwag's relevant attacks, can paralyze it with Thunder Wave, and can use it as setup fodder using its own Amnesia. However, given that they're slower both threats must watch out for Hypnosis. (Staryu is also 3HKOed at +2 and should be mentioned for being able to Twave Wag and then potentially win with Tbolt or at least wear it down a good bit)

**Grass-types**: Weepinbell can easily tank a +2 Psychic or Blizzard and OHKO Poliwag through its boosted Special using Razor Leaf. While it lacks the means to easily break through a boosted Poliwag, Vileplume takes even less damage and can cripple Poliwag with status. However, they must be wary of Hypnosis. (idt we need to mention all of these as being wary of hypnosis, presumably Wag has slept something before you try to check it. Also, idt plume is a good check. Psychic is a bad range to 2HKO at +2 but drop odds add a huge chance of a 2HKO, while Drain does pathetic damage.)

**Fire-types**: Arcanine can outspeed and 2HKO Poliwag with Body Slam and Hyper Beam, while a +2 Hydro Pump only has a 66.7% chance to OHKO it. ("only?" thats a fair bit) While they are always OHKOed by a +2 Hydro Pump, Rapidash and Magmar can also outspeed and KO Poliwag using a combination of Body Slam and Hyper Beam. (revenge killing may be more relevant here)

**Paralysis**: Due to its paltry initial power, without Hypnosis Thunder Wave users like Abra, Dragonair, Drowzee, and Porygon can paralyze Poliwag, leaving it easily overwhelmed by the majority of the tier due to its low bulk. (I think this is framed weirdly, all of these can come in as it boosts and para it regardless)

[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gangsta-spongebob.535530/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sabelette.583793/
Grammar checked by:
 
Last edited:

gastlies

running up that hill
is a Pre-Contributor
hi
[OVERVIEW]

Poliwag's blistering fast base 90 Speed and access to Hypnosis make it the fastest sleeper in the tier. Once it puts something to sleep, it can turn into a dangerous sweeper thanks to Amnesia. However, Poliwag's awful bulk leaves it reliant on Hypnosis landing, rendering it horribly inconsistent. To make matters worse, Poliwag's terrible Special leaves it struggling to OHKO targets weak to its STAB even at +2. I disagree with the sentence above. STAB Hydro Pump is a very favorable roll on Nidoqueen, and outright OHKOes Rapidash, although it's a roll vs Arc. Maybe rephrase this such that Poliwag has to rely on the inconsisteny Hydro Pump to get these OHKOs, since surf is an extremely unlikely roll on Rapidash, while failing to OHKO Nidoqueen and Arc. You mention this in the set description but I think it would fit here as well. Finally, its Speed, while great, lets it be outsped by several common threats such as Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine. Poliwag's suffers from consistency issues as well as its reward often being much lower than its risk, and thus it should be used with extreme caution. Maybe mention too poliwag's competition with the other water-types, Seaking and Staryu are much more immediately threatening due to their higher special stats, and in terms of sleep, Drowzee and Gastly also have immediate power that wag simply lacks.

It would also be nice to mention somewhere that due to lack of rest in this tier, there are basically ZERO opportunities for poliwag to set up an amnesia, except for the turn after it lands hypnosis.


[SET]
name: Amnesia Sweeper
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Amnesia
move 3: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 4: Psychic

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Hypnosis combined with Poliwag's Speed make it the fastest sleeper in the tier. Amnesia boosts Poliwag's Special, letting it 2HKO most of the tier and avoid being 2HKOed by most Thunderbolts and other special attacks.

The choice between Hydro Pump and Surf is a matter of power versus consistency, within the context that Poliwag is already reliant on a very inaccurate move. While both Surf and Hydro Pump 2HKO most neutral targets like Pinsir, some threats that are 2HKOed by a +2 Hydro Pump, such as Machamp and Porygon, either avoid or have extremely low odds to be 2HKOed by a +2 Surf. Additionally, a +2 Surf is incapable of OHKOing Nidoqueen and Arcanine, and has extremely low odds of OHKOing Rapidash, while Hydro Pump at +2 has high odds to OHKO the former pair and will always OHKO the latter.

Psychic is Poliwag's best attack against Water-types like Staryu and Seaking, as while Hydro Pump does similar amounts of damage, its higher accuracy and chance for a Special drop gives it solid odds for it to 2HKO the former and 3HKO the latter at +2. It also helps against Grass-types, as after an Amnesia boost it can it has decent odds to 2HKO Vileplume due to its range and chance of a Special drop, and it will always 2HKO Weepinbell.

Poliwag is an effective lead due to its high Speed and access to a sleep move, though it can also be used as an endgame cleaner. Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine are common threats that Poliwag loses to quite badly, so Omanyte is a great partner as it switches into all three of them. Paralysis is a great way to handle these faster threats, so Poliwag also appreciates the support of Thunder Wave users like Dragonair and Porygon. Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine themselves make great partners, as they can trade with each other and eliminate the status spreaders that give Poliwag trouble.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Blizzard can be used over Psychic, exchanging the ability to break through Water-types and fish for Special drops to instead hit Fearow and Dragonair for super effective damage while also offering higher damage ranges against Grass-types. However, even at +2 Blizzard fails to OHKO Fearow and Dragonair, and Fearow can be taken out by a +2 Surf anyways.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fearow**: Fearow outspeeds Poliwag and has a 33.3% chance to OHKO it using Hyper Beam, while it can't even OHKO Fearow with Hydro Pump or Blizzard at +2.

**Water-types**: Barring Special drops, Seaking isn't even 3HKOed by boosted Psychics and can KO Poliwag with a combination of Double-Edge and Hyper Beam. Staryu struggles to deal damage to a boosted Poliwag without crits (crit tbolt ohkoes) and is 3HKOed by boosted Psychics, but it can cripple Poliwag with Thunder Wave. While rare, Slowpoke resists all of Poliwag's relevant attacks, can paralyze it with Thunder Wave, and can use it as setup fodder using its own Amnesia. However, given that they're all slower, these threats must watch out for Hypnosis.

**Fire-types**: Arcanine can outspeed and 2HKO Poliwag with Body Slam and Hyper Beam, though a +2 Hydro Pump has a 66.7% chance to OHKO it. While they are always OHKOed by a +2 Hydro Pump, Rapidash and Magmar can also outspeed and KO Poliwag using a combination of Body Slam and Hyper Beam. Besides winning the one-one-one, all 3 faster Fire-types can also easily revenge kill a weakened Poliwag. Even though it's extremely obvious, maybe mention that these guys can't switch in to wag.

**Weepinbell**: Thouugh rare, Weepinbell can easily tank a +2 Psychic or Blizzard and OHKO Poliwag through its boosted Special using Razor Leaf.

**Paralysis**: Due to its paltry initial power, without Hypnosis, Thunder Wave users paralysis spreaders like Abra, Vileplume, Dragonair, Drowzee, and Porygon can paralyze Poliwag, leaving it easily overwhelmed by the majority of the tier due to its low bulk. Vileplume doesn't learn twave so I just rephrased it.

[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gangsta-spongebob.535530/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sabelette.583793/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gastlies.540559/

Grammar checked by:
 

Sabelette

from the river to the sea
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
GP 1/1 GP Team done

[OVERVIEW]

Poliwag's blistering fast base 90 Speed and access to Hypnosis make it the fastest sleeper in the tier. Once it puts something to sleep, it can turn into a dangerous sweeper thanks to Amnesia. However, Poliwag's awful bulk leaves it completely reliant on landing Hypnosis landing for it to find any opportunities to set up, rendering it horribly inconsistent. To make matters worse, Poliwag's terrible Special leaves it struggling struggles to OHKO even targets weak to its Surf at +2, often mandating that it further rely on RNG incentivizing further inconsistency (you can change the wording but "often mandating" is a very strange phrase) by using Hydro Pump to reach these crucial damage rolls. Its Speed, while great, lets it be outsped by (passive voice) is still worse than several common threats, (AC) such as Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine. As When choosing a sleeper, teams usually prefer the better offensive and defensive utility from Gastly and Drowzee, and Seaking is usually preferred as a Water-type setup sweeper Seaking is usually preferred. Thus, Poliwag should be used with extreme caution due to its reward often being lower than its risk.

[SET]
name: Amnesia Sweeper
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Amnesia
move 3: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 4: Psychic

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Hypnosis combined with Poliwag's Speed make it the fastest sleeper in the tier. (redundant with the opening line) Hypnosis lets Poliwag put a foe to sleep and provides an opening to use Amnesia, which Amnesia boosts Poliwag's Special, letting lets it 2HKO most foes of the tier and avoid being 2HKOed by most a 2HKO from Thunderbolts and other special attacks. (why is this a separate paragraph? merged with the one below) The choice between Hydro Pump and Surf is a matter of power versus consistency; (semicolon), (RC) within the context that Poliwag is already reliant on a very inaccurate move, further complicating this choice (lmk if this isn't where you were going with this). While both Surf and Hydro Pump 2HKO most neutral targets, (AC) like Pinsir, some threats that are 2HKOed by a +2 Hydro Pump, such as Machamp and Porygon, either avoid or have extremely low odds to be 2HKOed by a +2 Surf. Additionally, a +2 Surf is incapable of OHKOing Nidoqueen and Arcanine, (RC) and has extremely low odds of OHKOing Rapidash, while +2 Hydro Pump at +2 has high odds to OHKO the former pair and will always OHKO the latter. (again no paragraph space needed) Psychic is Poliwag's best attack against Water-types. (AC) like Staryu and Seaking; (semicolon) , (RC) as while Hydro Pump does similar amounts of damage, its Psychic's higher accuracy and chance for a Special drop gives (plural) it solid odds for it to 2HKO the former and 3HKO the latter at +2. It also helps against Grass-types, as after an Amnesia boost it has decent odds to 2HKO Vileplume when accounting for its chance to drop Special, and it will always 2HKO Weepinbell.

Poliwag is an effective lead due to its high Speed and access to a sleep-inducing move, though it can also be used as an endgame cleaner. Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine are common threats that Poliwag loses to quite badly; (semicolon), so Omanyte is a great partner, (AC) (this comma is grammatically necessary so I made the prior comma a semicolon for flow) as it switches into all three of them. Paralysis is a great way to handle these faster threats, so Poliwag also appreciates the support of from Thunder Wave users like Dragonair and Porygon. Fearow, Rapidash, and Arcanine themselves make great partners, as they can trade hits with each other and eliminate the status spreaders that give Poliwag trouble.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Blizzard can be used over Psychic, exchanging the ability to break through Water-types and fish for Special drops to instead hit Fearow and Dragonair for super effective damage while also offering and reach higher damage ranges against Grass-types. However, even at +2 Blizzard fails to OHKO Fearow and Dragonair, and Fearow can be is (99.8%, we can say it just is) 2HKOed by a +2 Surf anyways.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fearow**: Fearow outspeeds Poliwag and has a 33.3% chance to OHKO it using Hyper Beam, while it can't even OHKO Fearow with +2 Hydro Pump or Blizzard at +2.

**Water-types**: Barring Special drops, Seaking isn't even 3HKOed by boosted +2 Psychics, (AC) and it can KO Poliwag with a combination of Double-Edge and Hyper Beam. Staryu struggles to deal damage to a boosted Poliwag without crits critical hits and is 3HKOed by boosted +2 Psychics, but it can cripple Poliwag with Thunder Wave. While rare, Slowpoke resists all of Poliwag's relevant attacks, can paralyze it with Thunder Wave, and can use it as setup fodder using for its own Amnesia. However, given that they're all slower, these threats must watch out for Hypnosis.

**Fire-types**: Arcanine can outspeed and 2HKO Poliwag with Body Slam and Hyper Beam, though a +2 Hydro Pump has a 66.7% chance to OHKO it. While they are always OHKOed by a +2 Hydro Pump always OHKOes them, Rapidash and Magmar can also outspeed and KO Poliwag using a combination of Body Slam and Hyper Beam. Besides winning the one-one-one (111), all 3 faster of these Fire-types can also easily revenge kill a weakened Poliwag. However, these Pokemon struggle to switch in due to their weakness to Water.

**Weepinbell**: Though rare, Weepinbell can easily tank a +2 Psychic or Blizzard and has a OHKO Poliwag through its boosted Special regardless of boosts using Razor Leaf.

**Paralysis**: Due to its Poliwag's paltry initial power leaves it vulnerable to, without Hypnosis, paralysis spreaders like Abra, Vileplume, Dragonair, Drowzee, and Porygon can paralyze Poliwag once Sleep Clause is in effect. , leaving it Once paralyzed, it is easily overwhelmed by the majority of the tier most foes due to its low bulk.

[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gangsta-spongebob.535530/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sabelette.583793/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gastlies.540559/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/sabelette.583793/
 

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