Politoed (Analysis)

[blarajan]

I second the importance of giving Politoed a -Speed nature. However, instead of 0 speed ivs, give it a 11 so it can still outslow Tyranitar but outspeed all neutral nature Tangrowth. Getting your weather up first is especially important for the specs set. If Politoed/Tyranitar lead off, and you get rain up, Tyranitar is going to RUNNN for the hills. There, you have a free HP Grass for the incoming Jellicent switch in, or to do a HUGE chunk to Tyranitar (no SpD boost) if it decides to play mind games and stay in. Atleast consider it for the Other Options on that set.

Likewise, I have a problem with this:
<p>Don't use any of Politoed's other abilities, as if you do, you may as well use a better Water-type like Jellicent or Vaporeon. Politoed’s only other notable support option is Haze. Politoed can also use the RestTalk strategy to keep itself healthy, and this can be particularly annoying combined with Scald's burn chance. Politoed can also forgo Sleep Talk on such a set and pack a Chesto Berry for a one-time no-penalty full recovery.</p>


I'm pretty sure Sleep Talk is illegal with Drizzle.

 

[LostLegend]

Protect is good when paired with Leftovers, as Politoed isn't exactly a Pokemon that you'd want to lose early. It'll also allow you to scout some moves, which is always helpful.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Okay, just a few posts.

Hm, Ive been running a specs set that has been workign out pretty well for me so far.
I run 252 spA/ 252 HP / 6 def @specs Quiet
h pump
ice beam
focus blast
hp elec


I have maximum attacking power while maintaining as much bulk as possible. I dont really worry about outspeeding things, as i do have that bulk. Also, a quiet nature with minimal speed iv's to underspeed lots of Ttars and get rain up. 3 speed ivs for hp elec. I don't think hp grass is needed since modest max spA specs H pump in rain does a huge ton to pert. Ice beam gives reliable accuracy to hit flyers, dragons, etc. Not to mention boltbeam coverage is always nice. F blast is for nattorei and ttar obviously (in sand it's needed over h pump in the sand for t tar as it has 25% more base power than h pump which can def secure some kills). F blast doesnt quite KO most nattorei but it does a wicked amount to it. ( i havent run calcs, but from experience its about 85 ish %), which after full spikes switch in is a KO.
Once again i find the bulk a lot more useful than speed because (aside from weather reasons discussed earlier) politoed cant really outspeed much at max speed anyways. Id rather be able to take a hit or two over outspeeding like gliscor toxicroak and ttar anyday.

The reason why the majority of the community isn't so keen on minimally slow Politoed (I've discussed this one time on PO) is because of the fact that Drizzle comes first in battle. Drizzle coming first in the battle fight be understandably advantageous at first, but if a smart opponent (which you will be battling most of the time) has another weather inducer and sees Drizzle up on the first turn, they will immediately switch out their inducer, and Politoed's efforts to get rain up will be nullified later in the game. All in all, it doesn't matter which weather comes first, as the other weather will have a high chance of replacing it.

By "being faster" than another inducer, it ensures that Politoed has a chance to cripple and possibly eliminate other inducers staying in (Many Specially Defensive Tyranitar will stay in on Politoed in hopes of setting up Stealth Rock and surviving an attack in Sandstorm). This also ensures that Politoed's already good bulk is not put up the waste against the likes of other slow attackers. Dusk and I have already mentioned maximum HP investment to take advantage of this bulk as well.

In other news, the Bolt Beam combo you use in this set is not effective in this metagame due to the low amount of targets for Hidden Power Electric. Gyarados will mostly be handled through your own Ferrothorn or Thundurus, and Hidden Power Grass is the main option to eliminate Gastrodon, who otherwise walls Politoed forever. Swampert is hit relatively hard by Hydro Pump anyways.

I second the importance of giving Politoed a -Speed nature. However, instead of 0 speed ivs, give it a 11 so it can still outslow Tyranitar but outspeed all neutral nature Tangrowth. Getting your weather up first is especially important for the specs set. If Politoed/Tyranitar lead off, and you get rain up, Tyranitar is going to RUNNN for the hills. There, you have a free HP Grass for the incoming Jellicent switch in, or to do a HUGE chunk to Tyranitar (no SpD boost) if it decides to play mind games and stay in. Atleast consider it for the Other Options on that set.

Likewise, I have a problem with this:
<p>Don't use any of Politoed's other abilities, as if you do, you may as well use a better Water-type like Jellicent or Vaporeon. Politoed’s only other notable support option is Haze. Politoed can also use the RestTalk strategy to keep itself healthy, and this can be particularly annoying combined with Scald's burn chance. Politoed can also forgo Sleep Talk on such a set and pack a Chesto Berry for a one-time no-penalty full recovery.</p>


I'm pretty sure Sleep Talk is illegal with Drizzle.

Read the above response. You do NOT want Tyranitar "running for the hills"; you need to kill it before it even thinks of running.

Also, Sleep Talk is available through Dream World Poliwag.

Protect is good when paired with Leftovers, as Politoed isn't exactly a Pokemon that you'd want to lose early. It'll also allow you to scout some moves, which is always helpful.

I'll admit that Protect is a nice option for a set as defensive as this, but Politoed generally has better things to do unless this is oriented towards stall.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Protect is good when paired with Leftovers, as Politoed isn't exactly a Pokemon that you'd want to lose early. It'll also allow you to scout some moves, which is always helpful.

I'll admit that Protect is a nice option for a set as defensive as this, but Politoed generally has better things to do unless this is oriented towards stall.

I remember seeing it back a while ago with Toxic and it was annoying at times, considering its bulk. I Agree that it shouldn't be slashed, but it could be mentioned in another section. Everything gets Protect and can use that strategy though, so I wouldn't worry about it. Besides, it takes a slot which is better used by a second attacking move and Encore/Persish Song (which are better anyways, especially Encore).

 

[blarajan]

I'm going to have to slightly disagree there, AG. I'm not saying it's a primary option. However, the reason that's so valuable on SpecsToed is that its hydro pump kills EVERYTHING. This isn't something most defensive sets need to or should even bother doing, and you're right that sand will generally come up later in the game. However, that first turn switch advantage is incredibly important in the current metagame, for the specs set in particlar. SpecsToed with Tyranitar and Drizzle up guarantees a switch. You can kill the switch in with that Hydro Pump, predict the incoming Ferrothorn (who you still outspeed and hit itwith that Focus Blast (which would still OHKO that Tyranitar)), or, predict that Jellicent, use Toxic (atleast, I find Toxic incredibly useful on SpecsToed because HP Grass can be recovered off) or switch to your Thundurus or whatever. Removing one of thoe walls (or crippling it), or killing a ballsy Tyranitar, or killing even a basic resist (Latios, Starmie, Hydreigon) with th monster that is a SpecsToed Hydro Pump is an amazing plus. The early game initiative in itself merits that minus speed nature because it can in itself effectively cripple/kill something. That one switch can really do some work for SPECS TOED IN PARTICULAR. And, just because I can't think of anything, what is important tha threatens Politoed is able to outspeed it now, assuming max HP and no speed? It still outspeeds and OHKOes/2HKOes Reuniclus, Conkeldurr, Ferrothorn, Tangrowth, etc. Is it losing out on anything now?

Oh, and the PO team builder didn't let me give DrizzleToed Sleep Talk. That might need to get fixed if it's legal and was the basis for my doubt.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

And, just because I can't think of anything, what is important tha threatens Politoed is able to outspeed it now, assuming max HP and no speed?

Scizor is a notable threat it wants to outspeed. Same with Jellicent (you 2HKO Bold versions after SR with HP Grass) and Vaporeon.

Honestly, I think wasting so much speed just to get weather up before 1 Pokemon is a waste. Most teams now have something that can switch into specs rain boosted Hydro Pump, whether it be a specially defensive grass/dragon or a water absorber.

 

[blarajan]

I was mainly just arguing for it being an optional option or something similar, not on the main set.

Those are rather important Pokemon though. I just wanted to make it clear that it's a good option because Politoed's bulky anyways and can tank hits from most to any of these pokemon, and its rain means : no sand. Tyranitar needs to come back in. Early game Thunderus with Nasty Plot/Focus Blast/Thunder/HP Ice @ Lum Berry can decimate sand teams if set up early. Just for that sort of thing.

The main selling point is: tyranitar needs to come back in. If it expected to outslow and get up sand, that's two guaranteed turns in which a lot can happen.

 

[BurningMan]

I really think the main EV spread on the Specs set should be the bulky one the only TTar that commonly runs speed is ScarfTar, most other ones even run -Spe natures to go mixed. Scizor also rarely runs more than a few Spe EVs unless its an offensive SD variant wich are rare and you can't switch in on them and they won't switch in either, its similar with SDef Jirachi if you switch in on them you will likely get paralysed rendering your Spe EVs useless and it isn't going to switch in on you either.
Jellicent is an issue, but its going to switch out of HP Grass anyway.
The biggest issue is propably Magnezone, but since both can't really switch in on each other and SpecsToed is more of a Wallbreaker than a sweeper its not that important.
The HP EVs on the other hand offer you a lot more bulk and being able to take a hit is invaluable for a weather starter.

 

[Porii Sames]

Politoed
@: Leftovers
Calm
252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
~Scald
~Toxic
~Encore
~Protect

I feel this set needs to be mentioned. You tank special hits, Toxic when necessary on walls that can't hurt you much, Scald for burn and damage, Encore to screw up everything, Protect for lefties and Encore.

 

[yee]

I remember seeing it back a while ago with Toxic and it was annoying at times, considering its bulk. I Agree that it shouldn't be slashed, but it could be mentioned in another section. Everything gets Protect and can use that strategy though, so I wouldn't worry about it. Besides, it takes a slot which is better used by a second attacking move and Encore/Persish Song (which are better anyways, especially Encore).

I have always run Protect on my defensive Politoed, the extra recovery saves me quite often, you can scout choice users like Latios, and if you Encore a set up move, you can Perish Song and because of Protect they have no time to attack, unless they want to stay in for their final turn and faint.

 

[djayceofhearts]

im suggesting to add a Relaxed/Sassy Politoed (0 Spe IV) to BE outsped by things such as Abomasnow/DroughtTales...misses out on Hippowdon no matter how slow he is....but scout 4 him on TP. besides, staying slow and bulky allows to Encore set-uppers and etc.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

im suggesting to add a Relaxed/Sassy Politoed (0 Spe IV) to BE outsped by things such as Abomasnow/DroughtTales...misses out on Hippowdon no matter how slow he is....but scout 4 him on TP. besides, staying slow and bulky allows to Encore set-uppers and etc.

This is meaningless since being slower than a setup sweeper means you have to be reliant on prediction to successfully cripple it (especially Careful Specially Defensive Tyranitar), and even if you take Speed into consideration, Ninetales and Abomasnow will always be faster than the usual 0 Spe Politoed. Also, being slower than some weather inducers can be disadvantageous in many certain situations as delineated previously.

 

[djayceofhearts]

This is meaningless since being slower than a setup sweeper means you have to be reliant on prediction to successfully cripple it, and even if you take Speed into consideration, Ninetales and Abomasnow will always be faster than the usual 0 Spe Politoed. Also, being slower than some weather inducers can be disadvantageous in many certain situations as delineated previously.

possibly...possibly...but i was taking into consideration how tha weather changes into the slower weather starter's Ability after tha faster one

 

[godbaka]

I think the specs politoad should have 252 hp just cuz its already slow.

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

This is a late suggestion, but Protect should be mentioned on the defensive set for a number of reasons: Politoed lacks reliable recovery, and Protect nets it a turn of extra Leftovers recovery; Protect allows Politoed to scout choiced Pokemon, such as Tyranitar (Pursuit) and Rotom-W (Volt Switch); and Protect lets Politoed stall opposing Pokemon through burn/poison damage. I would make it the first option in the fourth slot, although I'm not too sure about that, so more QC input is welcome. I am certain, though, that Protect deserves an adequate mention at the very least.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Alright, I gave Protect a positive mention in the Additional Comments. If other QC members wish, I can slash Protect in as a main option. For now, avoid clutter.

 

[wilson46]

I support slashing Protect in as a main option, it also has better utility than the attacking moves imo.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Alright. Editing according to Protect's slash.