Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

CTNC

Doesn't know how to attack
Speaking of Sludge Wave, Dugtrio and Alolan Raticate learn it. My guess for Dugtrio is underground oil, but I just don't get Alolan Raticate. Dhelmise and the Mudkip Evolution Chain are the only Pokemon to learn Sludge Wave, but not Sludge Bomb. I can understand Dhelmise, because it seems like it could let its algae flow over everything, but not be able to throw it. Mudkip on the other hand, no clue.

Also, Bagon has the ability Rock Head and can learn Headbutt and Zen Headbutt. You'd expect it to learn Iron Head, right? Wrong.
 
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Speaking of Sludge Wave, Dugtrio and Alolan Raticate learn it. My guess for Dugtrio is underground oil, but I just don't get Alolan Raticate. Dhelmise and the Mudkip Evolution Chain are the only Pokemon to learn Sludge Wave, but not Sludge Bomb. I can understand Dhelmise, because it seems like it could let its algae flow over everything, but not be able to throw it. Mudkip on the other hand, no clue.

Also, Bagon has the ability Rock Head and can learn Headbutt and Zen Headbutt. You'd expect it to learn Iron Head, right? Wrong.
Mudkip probably learns it because mud is often considered to be sludge. The flavour of sludge wave is indeed quite similar to muddy water which swamperts most signiture move. I'm pretty sure that the mudkip family also lives in sewers which could be a possible explanation.

The same logic can be applied to dugtrio, but dugtrio is not really known for attacking with mud like mudkip, so it's not a very strong explanation.

Raticate probably gets it simply because it's a normal type.
 

CTNC

Doesn't know how to attack
Mudkip probably learns it because mud is often considered to be sludge. The flavour of sludge wave is indeed quite similar to muddy water which swamperts most signiture move. I'm pretty sure that the mudkip family also lives in sewers which could be a possible explanation.

The same logic can be applied to dugtrio, but dugtrio is not really known for attacking with mud like mudkip, so it's not a very strong explanation.

Raticate probably gets it simply because it's a normal type.
I understand why Mudkip gets Sludge Wave. I'm not questioning the logic of that. What I'm asking is why does it get Sludge Wave but not also get Sludge Bomb.

The explanation of Raticate getting Sludge Wave being "It's a Normal Type" does not work when it's the only Normal type that gets it. If you want to try "It's a Dark Type" the only other Non-Poison Dark Type to get it is Guzzlord.
 

cityscapes

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Kadabrium I suppose it would be weird if you attack and only one pointed/canine tooth was infused with psychic energy.
well... couldn't you say the same about the other fang moves?

the main difference i see is the fact that ice/fire/thunder are all nouns, while psychic can be (and probably is in this context) an adjective. either way it's pretty inconsistent and besides icy fangs/flaming fangs/electric fangs actually sound really cool.

why are psychic fangs so strong compared to the other fangs? (85 vs. 65) this doesn't make any sense either
 
Speaking of psychic fangs, why is the name explicitly written in the plural?
The animation looks not that different from the other fang moves, and there is nothing that implies bruxish or whoever else learns it has especially more fangs than everyone else.
Ironically enough, it's the complete opposite in the Italian translation. Thunder Fang is translated as Fulmindenti (Thunder Fangs), for example, while Psychic Fangs is translated as Psicozanna (Psychic Fang). So... it's indeed a quite weird thing, because in Japanese all those fang moves are in singular form.

why are psychic fangs so strong compared to the other fangs? (85 vs. 65) this doesn't make any sense either
Probably because the user employs some telekinetic power to apply more force to the bite, causing the attack to strike harder while the psychic energy dispels barriers. Meanwhile, in the other cases, the fangs are simply coated or charged in electricity, fire or ice, which essentially raise a bit their power compared to a regular Bite (65 vs. 60) while changing the type and giving to those attacks additional secondary effects.

This could be supported by their descriptions:

Fire Fang - The user bites with flame-cloaked fangs. This may also make the target flinch or leave it with a burn.
Ice Fang - The user bites with cold-infused fangs. This may also make the target flinch or leave it frozen.
Thunder Fang - The user bites with electrified fangs. This may also make the target flinch or leave it with paralysis.
Psychic Fangs - The user bites the target with its psychic capabilities. This can also destroy Light Screen and Reflect.
 
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Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
well... couldn't you say the same about the other fang moves?
why are psychic fangs so strong compared to the other fangs? (85 vs. 65) this doesn't make any sense either
I'm guessing it has to do with the fact that Psychic is really lacking in strong moves. Like, really lacking. The strongest move without conditions that Psychic has is 90 base power (With conditions it's 120 but no one uses synchronoise), but on the physical, it's 80. That places near the bottom for most types. There NEEDS to be stronger psychic coverage and that's what GF did. Also, Darklatias92's explanation also works. Giving it 85 bp is intelligent both lore-wise and game balance-wise.
Speaking of Sludge Wave, Dugtrio and Alolan Raticate learn it. My guess for Dugtrio is underground oil, but I just don't get Alolan Raticate.
I'm guessing here it's the sewer rat thing. Alolan Raticate is supposedly based off of the Polynesian Rat, which actually lives near humans and thus can be described as a stereotypical filthy sewage rat (also explains the food-hoarding habits). Normal Raticate is based off of a muskrat, which is semi-aquatic and don't tend to live near humans (hence why it can't learn it).
 

Karxrida

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I just found out that Marowak can learn Ice Beam and Blizzard. And Alolan Marowak also gets them.

Just... what? I can kind of get Ice Punch, but Ice Beam and Blizzard?!?
 

Pikachu315111

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I just found out that Marowak can learn Ice Beam and Blizzard. And Alolan Marowak also gets them.

Just... what? I can kind of get Ice Punch, but Ice Beam and Blizzard?!?
Well in a lot of media ice powers is a common ability ghosts/spirits have (or those who can wield supernatural power). Danny Phantom got a freezing breath attack in later seasons (which was an extension of his ghost sense power), one of Ben's new alien forms in Ben 10: Alien Force was "Big Chill" which was a moth-like alien with ghost and ice powers, and Brook from One Piece can channel his soul into his sword to create an ice attack. Even Pokemon has it for some non-Ice-type Ghosts like how Gengar causes room temperatures to drop when it's nearby.
 

Karxrida

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Well in a lot of media ice powers is a common ability ghosts/spirits have (or those who can wield supernatural power). Danny Phantom got a freezing breath attack in later seasons (which was an extension of his ghost sense power), one of Ben's new alien forms in Ben 10: Alien Force was "Big Chill" which was a moth-like alien with ghost and ice powers, and Brook from One Piece can channel his soul into his sword to create an ice attack. Even Pokemon has it for some non-Ice-type Ghosts like how Gengar causes room temperatures to drop when it's nearby.
I know ghosts are often associated with the cold (dead things don't exactly give off heat), but it's still weird for a fire ghost to be using Ice attacks.
 

Pikachu315111

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I know ghosts are often associated with the cold (dead things don't exactly give off heat), but it's still weird for a fire ghost to be using Ice attacks.
Marowak isn't a ghost though, it's channeling the spirit of its ancestors, so it's more of a Fire-type who is given Ghost-type powers and that's the side of him giving him ice powers.

"Couldn't the designers just have been lazy, leaving it on as no one would use Special moves for Marowak anyway"? Yeah, I suppose that's also an option (though doesn't explain why normal Marowak gets it), though why they then went out of their way to give it Thunderbolt & Thunder I have no idea (Flamethrower, Fire Blast, and Shadow Ball I can understand, obligatory STABs). Just cause it gets Lightning Rod doesn't mean it needs Electric attacks, they didn't feel normal Marowak needed it.
 
why are psychic fangs so strong compared to the other fangs? (85 vs. 65) this doesn't make any sense either
You answered your own question, ice/fire/thunder fang imbues only one fang with elemental energy so it's 65 power, psychic fangs uses several hence the increase in power
 

TMan87

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You know, I've read the entirety of this thread more than once, and I'm still amazed at some explanations that are borderline genius.
So, here's my question: how about submitting it in TFP as a full-fledged article, by picking the best examples of why certain Pokémon can learn certain moves that are seemingly illogical but actually make sense?
 
Heliolisk has a strange movepool. You'd think the sun-themed lizard would learn thematically appropriate moves like Flamethrower and Dazzling Gleam, but it learns Surf and Dark Pulse for... some reason.

Also it learns virtually no special Normal moves without tutors.
 

Pikachu315111

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Heliolisk has a strange movepool. You'd think the sun-themed lizard would learn thematically appropriate moves like Flamethrower and Dazzling Gleam, but it learns Surf and Dark Pulse for... some reason.

Also it learns virtually no special Normal moves without tutors.
Not sure why it gets Dark Pulse, but it gets Surf since it's based on the Basiliscus, commonly called Basilisks though also Jesus Lizards because they can run on water:
 
Heliolisk has a strange movepool. You'd think the sun-themed lizard would learn thematically appropriate moves like Flamethrower and Dazzling Gleam, but it learns Surf and Dark Pulse for... some reason.

Also it learns virtually no special Normal moves without tutors.
Dark Pulse is literally called Evil Pulse in Japanese according to Bulbapedia.
It probably has nothing to do with the absence of light.
 
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