OU Theorymon (Check Post #173)

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I kind of feel like cataloging some good (Don't allow more than one layer of Spikes to go up, don't die) counter-leads to Froslass.

Talonflame: Flare Blitz T1 brings Froslass down to its Sash (and underspeeds T1 Destiny Bond), T2 it can pick Froslass off with Brave Bird before it moves.

CB Tyranitar: 252+ Banded Pursuit drops Froslass to Sandstorm range even if it doesn't switch. If it does, Tyranitar's sand KOs it when it switches back in.

Mega Sableye: Spikes are bounced back, Mega Sableye walls Froslass, Froslass eventually dies (probably to Burn damage).

Weavile: Even without Moxie, it can still click Knock Off T1 and Ice Shard Froslass out of the way T2.

Entei: A 50% chance to burn its way through Froslass's Focus Sash on T1 is great, but it's not as reliable as the others.

Magic Coat is cool for forcing Froslass out, but doesn't actually pose a threat to it. Everything else I can think of is booped by Ice Beam (Thundurus, Mega Absol) or lets too many Spikes get up or has to play games with Destiny Bond.
 
mega hera is actually a really sick froslass antilead bc rock blast. granted the bulky builds it does best against arent that common

shuca coba was used to be able to actually switch into megalix instead of using doubles n shit to trap it. u could do chople if anything else to be able to take a viriz's cc or weav's low kick.

u could do scarf moltres but idk i absolutely love the power of life orb and im just kinda biased tbh
 
mega hera is actually a really sick froslass antilead bc rock blast. granted the bulky builds it does best against arent that common

shuca coba was used to be able to actually switch into megalix instead of using doubles n shit to trap it. u could do chople if anything else to be able to take a viriz's cc or weav's low kick.

u could do scarf moltres but idk i absolutely love the power of life orb and im just kinda biased tbh
Shame about Arena Trap, 'cause that only works for Moltres. What I think you mean is that Shuca would allow it to set up on Megalix.

Megacross is pretty nice, but without Prankster, Froslass can just click Destiny Bond on T1 if it so chooses. And like you said, I see it having performance issues in this meta.

In any case, Mega Lopunny operates similarly, with Fake Out breaking Froslass's sash and Return threatening to KO the next turn.

Another unreliable anti-lead I forgot about is Mega Metagross. It underspeeds a Destiny Bond with any move on T1 while it mega-evolves, and then speed-ties on T2 if it's Jolly.

+ Rattled and Moonblast

Is being added to the Archive The Immortal

Mega Sceptile is going to B+
and Gogoat to C
Mega Houndoom's speed tier is nice in this metagame, and Moonblast lets it dismantle most of its offensive switch-ins. On the downside, it lost its spot as a devastating wallbreaker for sun teams. bump it up to B, I'd say, pending field testing.

Incidentally, the B ranks are feeling kinda bloated; is that a problem? Does a proliferation of viable Pokemon warrant filling up C and D ranks more, or is it fine to just have a lopsided VR?
 
Shame about Arena Trap, 'cause that only works for Moltres. What I think you mean is that Shuca would allow it to set up on Megalix.

Megacross is pretty nice, but without Prankster, Froslass can just click Destiny Bond on T1 if it so chooses. And like you said, I see it having performance issues in this meta.

In any case, Mega Lopunny operates similarly, with Fake Out breaking Froslass's sash and Return threatening to KO the next turn.

Another unreliable anti-lead I forgot about is Mega Metagross. It underspeeds a Destiny Bond with any move on T1 while it mega-evolves, and then speed-ties on T2 if it's Jolly.



Mega Houndoom's speed tier is nice in this metagame, and Moonblast lets it dismantle most of its offensive switch-ins. On the downside, it lost its spot as a devastating wallbreaker for sun teams. bump it up to B, I'd say, pending field testing.

Incidentally, the B ranks are feeling kinda bloated; is that a problem? Does a proliferation of viable Pokemon warrant filling up C and D ranks more, or is it fine to just have a lopsided VR?
Its more just an issue of the VR rankings themselves. In the process of using the Tourny battles to help judge some things before we finalize a new set of council approved rankings. Thanks for concern bud :D
 
current viability rankings are really, really bad and havent been updated since vietnam so here we go. i made a lot of this with the help of Recreant so shoutouts to her. keep in mind these wont be perfect by any means, as its still a wip, but theyre a hell of a lot better than the current one lol

S Rank

S Rank

Altaria (Mega)
Charizard (Mega-X)
Diancie (Mega)
Thundurus

A Rank

A+ Rank
Azumarill
Entei
Garchomp
Heatran
Keldeo
Kyurem
Lopunny (Mega)
Talonflame
Steelix (Mega)

A Rank

Braviary

Froslass
Hoopa-Unbound
Gyarados (Mega)
Latias
Manaphy
Metagross (Mega)
Moltres
Pidgeot-Mega

Virizion
Weavile

A- Rank

Aerodactyl (Mega)
Alakazam (Mega)
Camerupt (Mega)
Charizard (Mega Y)
Clefable
Excadrill
Gengar
Goodra
Gyarados
Kyurem-Black
Landorus-Therian
Latios
Latios (Mega)
Serperior
Scizor (Mega)
Torterra
Tornadus-Therian
Tyranitar
Zoroark

B Rank

B+ Rank

Bronzong
Cobalion

Empoleon
Gastrodon
Gliscor
Sableye (Mega)
Sandslash
Scolipede
Venusaur (Mega)
Victini


B Rank

Absol (Mega)
Aggron (Mega)

Archeops
Beedrill
Bisharp
Feraligatr
Houndoom (Mega)
Heracross (Mega)
Klefki
Hawlucha
Hippowdon
Kingdra
Manectric (Mega)
Mew
Politoed
Porygon-Z
Tyrantrum
Mega Sceptile
Swanna
Slowbro
Volcorona

B- Rank

Audino (Mega)
Banette (Mega)
Blastoise (Mega
Celebi
Crawdaunt
Forretress
Garchomp (Mega)
Omastar
Reuniclus
Slowbro (Mega)
Sylveon
Tangrowth
Wobuffet
Zapdos

C Rank

C+ Rank

Cacturne
Kabutops
Granbull
Jolteon
Mantine
Mandibuzz
Muk
Pinsir (Mega)
Raikou
Rotom-Fan
Rotom-Heat
Seismitoad
Sharpedo (Mega)
Slowking
Venusaur

C Rank

Abomasnow (Mega)
Ampharos (Mega)

Conkeldurr
Chesnaught
Chansey
Gothitelle
Heracross
Latias (Mega)
Magneton
Rhyperior
Staraptor

C- Rank

Cloyster
Donphan
Gogoat
Pangoro
Weezing


D Rank

D Rank

Emboar
Milotic
Azelf

lemme know if uve got any questions or concerns
 
Last edited:

Patolegend!

Fan of 1000 Arrow 'Slash
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
current viability rankings are really, really bad and havent been updated since vietnam so here we go. i made a lot of this with the help of Recreant so shoutouts to her. keep in mind these wont be perfect by any means, as its still a wip, but theyre a hell of a lot better than the current one lol
From personal experience, Weezing's a lot better than D rank; walling Altaria, SR Excadrill, Diancie, and a whole lot more, it can be annoying to take down, especially with WoW and a varied movepool. With Wish support (which it'll inevitably have on the defensive teams it's used on), it can really put it work.

I also think Cacturne's a lot better than C+ rank. It provides a (fragile) water resist and helps Sand teams beat Azu, and Grass/Dark is very reasonable coverage. When you put that together with its capability to run spikes and hit from either side, it's definitely a threat to account for.

Also, what makes Talon so much better in this meta? The lack of TTar? Excadrill's still around, and we have two powerful E-speed users that are much more prominent, while Diancie is also excellent. Another factor if you use Talon, you can't use Moltres, who offers a lot of the same defensive capabilities but without a rocks weakness.
 
yeah talonflame to s was one of the more controversial noms rec and i discussed and i think we were kinda jumping the gun on that one. our though process was "the meta has gotten frailer and rock types have been getting less and less common" but looking back at it it should definitely go to a+ because it faces a lot of competition with braviary/moltres, who demand far less team support and perform similar roles in one shape or another.

im editing that in rn :0

jurys still out on cacturne and weezing, id like to see more support for these
 
yeah talonflame to s was one of the more controversial noms rec and i discussed and i think we were kinda jumping the gun on that one. our though process was "the meta has gotten frailer and rock types have been getting less and less common" but looking back at it it should definitely go to a+ because it faces a lot of competition with braviary/moltres, who demand far less team support and perform similar roles in one shape or another.

im editing that in rn :0

jurys still out on cacturne and weezing, id like to see more support for these
I can easily vouch for Weezing to be a higher than D. It pairs naturally with M-Ampharos due to their nice type combination and Wish support, allowing it to have some nice options of recovery when needed. Steel/Poison typing + Levitate is actually damn fantastic, as sure it loses that fighting resist, but it gains a lot more annoyance via x4 fairy resist and dragon resist. It is capable of coming in effortlessly a lot of the time through my play testing (as it can be vouched for by Pato) that it has a great niche/role within the meta as a more than serviceable wall. It has its flaws yes in it only being able to painsplit for recovery and getting fucked over by fire moves, but its nothing that's all that big. Am I saying its above D ranking? Yes, it fits fine within the C rankings, be it -, normal, or + as it really shouldn't go any higher but its better than D
 
Quick note: shouldn't vrizon be bolded in the rankings? Also, where's gale wings swanna? I think that should be in the B rankings.
 
While we're on the topic, Cradily should be ranked. It's a very specially bulky rocks setter and Sand Streamer with reliable recovery. Possibly usable on non-sand teams, but I haven't seen it in that role.
 
While we're on the topic, Cradily should be ranked. It's a very specially bulky rocks setter and Sand Streamer with reliable recovery. Possibly usable on non-sand teams, but I haven't seen it in that role.
Ya it should be ranked. The rankings just proposed are not universally approved and are being debated heavily atm in convo. Your example of Cradily not being ranked is a prime example of this as it is a fantastic sand setter even with hippo and ttar already existing. GnralLao and Patolegend! can also verify this as well.

I don't know where I personally would rank it but it does need to be ranked.
 
this was just a personal resource that rec and i made. keep in mind its not supposed to replace isa's rankings, as lackluster as they are, and we just used them as an alternative for us that we thought could help others. as such, were gonna have some stuff missing; this is my fault, and i appologize. im in school rn but when i get the oppurtunity, ill be editing in starmie skarm and cradily later, but please let me know if i janked up on anything else. thank you
 
this was just a personal resource that rec and i made. keep in mind its not supposed to replace isa's rankings, as lackluster as they are, and we just used them as an alternative for us that we thought could help others. as such, were gonna have some stuff missing; this is my fault, and i appologize. im in school rn but when i get the oppurtunity, ill be editing in starmie skarm and cradily later, but please let me know if i janked up on anything else. thank you
Ferrothorn is missing and with all this Fire type spam should be A rank at maximum (instead of being placed in A+ such as in the previous viability ranking).

P.S. Maybe is better if the unviable theorymons are written under a section named "blacklisted"/"unviable theorymons".
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Hey. I conceived this idea about how to promote OU Theorymon (and also Monotype, fav OM) since it only gets discussion when ever a new theorymon gets adde and NEVER develops as its own meta. I call it the Mono Theorymon Monthly Tournament. The reason I chose Monotype as the format is a) Monotype makes teambuilding all more challenging and interesting. B) It would be good to see how the theorymon react in a Monotyped setting, and how types would use new gifts (and replace old ones). C) Monotype is cool.

So what do you think? Is the idea (or at least the basis) a good one?
 
Tentacruel + Ferrothorn + Garchomp hazard core Y/Y

I was joking when I first wrote that but the three actually have surprisingly good defensive synergy and cover many utility needs a team might have. Needs to pack answers for shit like Kyurem, Togekiss, and Moltres, as well as a cleric, but otherwise it seems very strong and very punishing to physical attackers.

Tentacruel @ Rocky Helmet
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Recover

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Iron Head/Power Whip
- Thunder Wave/Power Whip

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
 
So no one is considering the Mono Theorymon tourney idea?
Sorry for the delay on this answer bud. For most of the council its a hellish time of year between all our combined finals, so I have been a little slow posting on Smogon.

This is an interesting idea as anyone who has messed with mono room (I have for far too long sometimes), they always do try making tournaments with different types of metas in it, and this is an idea for Theorymon since we are pretty much a beefed up OU (by that I mean in both better and worse terms since we don't really regulate it). I'd say its an idea I'd like to mess with, but got to discuss it a little more before I fully commit bud
 
couple things: could we update the viability rankings to remove wobb and goth?
+ Rattled and Moonblast
Um, I can't see this one being higher than B-. Sure it's cool and after a NP boost it hits like a truck, but fairies are pretty dominate in this meta.
+ Iron Barbs and Recover

I'd say A-, because it can easily stop the myriad of awesome special attackers without getting worn down now. play testing would be nice here too.
 
ANNOUNCEMENT

Sorry that this has been a bit dead recently, but as of late I've begun to lose a lot of interest in the Theorymon Project and Metagame due to multiple reasons of my own, inside and outside the forum. As a result I've been a bit sloppy over the last couple months or so with sparking discussion and updating the VR.
It is because of this that I've decided to pass the thread back over to the council where it belongs, hence the newest council member, Tressed will be taking over and starting a new thread for this metagame. He is an active member of the community and I know that he will do a fantastic job of running the thread alongside the rest of the council, as he does with all his other threads. Hopefully in the hands of the council this will be able to flourish and grow, and you will finally get those up-to-date Viability Rankings you've all been waiting for!

I still have high hopes for OU Theorymon, regarding both the metagame and project. Its been a long run and I sincerely hope that this isn't the end of it, and that eventually I will be able to find that spark and come back as an enthused member of the Theorymon community. Till then, I'll likely still be lurking so lets get some discussion going in the new thread as we get closer and closer towards the 50 buffed pokemon milestone! (We are at 47 atm).

Tagging The Immortal to lock this thread.
 
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