[OU] Keldeo

Finchinator

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[OVERVIEW]
  • One of the most potent offensive threats in Black and White Two Overused since being introduced to the tier at the start of Black and White Two.
  • Strong special attack and good dual STAB that compensates for the lack of non-STAB movepool.
  • Speaking of STAB, Secret Sword lets Keldeo hit special walls on the physical side, which makes it harder to wall in some cases.
  • Fast enough to outpace a majority of the tier, but still falls short of Latis and anything quicker.
  • Capable of running various sets and taking advantage of the coverage granted by Hidden Power better than anything else in the tier.
  • Not frail for a generally offensive threat and capable of taking a hit if needed, but not reliably bulky either.
  • Water/Fighting typing is average defensively, leaving it vulnerable to opposing Psychic, Flying, Electric, and Grass type moves in return for resisting Rock, Steel, Fire, Water, Bug, and Ice.
[SET]
name: Expert Belt
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Secret Sword
move 3: Icy Wind
move 4: Hidden Power Bug / Hidden Power Grass
item: Expert Belt
ability: Justified
nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

  • This set is Keldeo's most overall threatening set due to its unpredictability in regards to coverage and potential item while maintaining Keldeo's natural strength and solid overall coverage.
  • Hydro Pump and Secret Sword are staples on just about every Keldeo set due to them being powerful STABs,
  • Icy Wind is a stellar coverage move for Keldeo as it hits opposing dragon and grass types.
  • The last slot is dedicated to Hidden Power. Hidden Power Bug is mainly to destroy opposing Celebi as they're often used to counter Keldeo, but it also hits other opposing psychic and grass types.
  • Alternatively, Hidden Power Grass can be used to hit opposing water types that are seen throughout the tier; if you're willing to trade off hitting Gastrodon for hitting Gyarados, then you can also elect to use Hidden Power Electric, but Gastrodon is generally seen as more of a common, lingering threat to Keldeo defensively than Gyarados.
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • The EV spread and nature are straightforward as they maximize speed and special attack in order to take full advantage of Keldeo's offensive capabilities and offensive presence.
  • Expert Belt is the item of choice because it can be used to bluff a Choice Scarf, which is also common on Keldeo, while hitting harder with super effective moves and not having to trade off residual damage each attack with Life Orb.
  • The choice of Hidden Power generally depends on the team being used. For example, if you find yourself struggling to kill opposing Gastrodon, then Hidden Power Grass is ideal. If you still wish to hit opposing water types, but prioritize Gyarados over Gastrodon, then Hidden Power Electric is the way to go. On the contrary, if you need to lure or severely weaken opposing Celebi, Hidden Power Bug is optimal.
  • In regard to teammates, Tyranitar is always a solid partner to Keldeo as it can deal with opposing psychic types, especially those that lack Focus Blast, such as Latios and Latias, which can be trapped and let Keldeo terrorize now vulnerable opponents later in games.
  • Having any other means of taking advantage of Latios, Latias, Jellicent, and Celebi, if you lack Hidden Power Bug, switching in is also ideal given that all of those are common defensive switch-ins to Keldeo.
  • U-turn support from something like Scizor can be quite helpful as Scizor specifically is complimentary with Keldeo defensively and overall, Keldeo appreciates the easier pivots in.
  • Finally, hazards are appreciated by any offensive pokemon, but Keldeo doesn't necessarily require spikes support to function, so don't try too hard to fit a Ferrothorn or Skarmory on if they do not work on a given team, but it's never a bad idea to try and add spikes.
[SET]
name: Calm Mind + 3 Attacks
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Secret Sword
move 4: Hidden Power Ghost / Hidden Power Electric
item: Fighting Gem / Lum Berry / Ghost Gem
ability: Justified
nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]
  • This is Keldeo's best sweeping variant. It is able to take advantage of the coverage offered from Hidden Power in conjunction with its dual STAB to abuse the boost given from Calm Mind to the best of its potential.
  • Calm Mind lets Keldeo boost its special attack and special defense by one stage, thus making it a force to be reckoned with on the special side.
  • Hydro Pump and Secret Sword are reliable STABs that hit fairly hard and Secret Sword even hits the physical defense of the opponent, letting Keldeo break through opposing special walls.
  • Hidden Power is the coverage move Keldeo elects to use to complete the water/fighting dual STAB it has. Hidden Power Ghost is great for hitting opposing psychic types such as Latios, Latias, Celebi, and Starmie as well as some problematic ghost types such as Jellicent.
  • Alternatively, Hidden Power Electric hits opposing water types such as Gyarados, Starmie, Jellicent, Tentacruel, Politoed, Slowking, and even opposing Keldeo.
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Offensive Calm Mind Keldeo can use a lot of items well, so this is a tough choice. Fighting Gem allows it to hit surprisingly hard with Secret Sword, especially after a Calm Mind boost, killing things such as Rotom-Wash, bulky Breloom, and non-defensive Politoed.
  • Lum Berry is another good item for Keldeo to use because it helps absorb opposing status such as poisons from Toxic, burns from Scald or Will-O-Wisp, or other forms of status.
  • Finally, Ghost Gem is also helpful to give some added power behind Hidden Power Ghost, if you elect to run it, so Keldeo can power through opposing Jellicent and other problematic threats.
  • Pursuit support from Tyranitar is appreciated for this variant of Keldeo quite a bit given that setting up a Calm Mind with a faster psychic type like Latios or Latias still alive is not going to end well for Keldeo, but it will lure in these pokemon and set up Tyraitar trapping them. Other pursuit users such as Weavile and Scarf Scizor can also be beneficial, but don't get the job done quite as well as Tyranitar.
  • U-turn support from something like Scizor can be quite helpful as Scizor specifically is complimentary with Keldeo defensively and overall, Keldeo appreciates the easier pivots in.
  • Hazards are helpful, but they are far from mandatory as Keldeo can power through things with a boost or other means of prior damage. If you can find a way to add Spikes onto a team, then go for it, but do not force it for the sake of Keldeo.

[SET]
name: Scarf
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Secret Sword
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Scald
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Justified
nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
  • This set allows Keldeo to function as a revenge killer and potentially a cleaner when facing rain and weatherless offensive teams.
  • Hydro Pump and Secret Sword are the STAB moves that Keldeo will be using on pretty much every set and the scarf variant happens to be included within this. Hydro Pump is a strong, but slightly inaccurate water STAB while Secret Sword is a reliable fighting STAB that hits the opponent's physical defense stat.
  • Hidden Power [Ice] allows Keldeo to hit opposing dragon and grass types for a fair amount of damage, especially when 4x super effective, but it's not the best move to lock into generally, so use it wisely.
  • Scald is a spammable STAB that is weaker than Hydro Pump, but much more reliable and it burns the opponent 30% of the time, which is normally significant when it comes down to wearing down the checks to Keldeo on the opposing team.
  • Alternatively, you can use another Hidden Power over Ice such as Electric, to hit opposing water types, and then use Icy Wind in the last spot (or drop the ice coverage altogether). In addition, you can use Surf over Scald for the added power, but the lack of secondary effect is a disappointing part of this trade off.
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • The EV spread and nature are straightforward - maximize the special attack and speed in order to hit hard and outpace as much as possible to increase revenge killing and cleaning capabilities.
  • Scarf Keldeo appreciates various forms of support. While the traditional Pursuit support from a Tyranitar can be seen as beneficial to this and other variants of Keldeo, it is even more important here as it's hard for a choice scarf locked Keldeo to truly threaten a Jellicent, Celebi, or even Latios/as.
  • This variant of Keldeo also appreciates rain support as a fast, powerful Hydro Pump boosted by rain is very hard for the opponent to stop when they're using offense.
  • Finally, hazards are helpful, but they are far from mandatory as Keldeo can still revenge kill many things and do its job well regardless of hazard support. If you can find a way to add Spikes onto a team, then go for it, but do not force it for the sake of Keldeo.

[SET]
name: Specs
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Secret Sword
move 3: Icy Wind
move 4: Hidden Power Ghost / Hidden Power Electric
item: Choice Specs
ability: Justified
nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

  • This is Keldeo's strongest variant. Unlike the other sets, it functions primarily as a breaker as very few things can withstand specs boosted hits, especially if the Keldeo predicts well as this set does have to lock into one move.
  • Hydro Pump and Secret Sword are reliable STABs that hit fairly hard and Secret Sword even hits the physical defense of the opponent, letting Keldeo break through opposing special walls.
  • Hidden Power is the coverage move Keldeo elects to use to complete the water/fighting dual STAB it has. Hidden Power Ghost is great for hitting opposing psychic types such as Latios, Latias, Celebi, and Starmie as well as some problematic ghost types such as Jellicent.
  • Alternatively, Hidden Power Electric hits opposing water types such as Gyarados, Starmie, Jellicent, Tentacruel, Politoed, Slowking, and even opposing Keldeo.
  • Finally, Icy Wind rounds out the set to slow down and hurt opposing grass and dragon types.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • The spread is straightforward; it maximizes damage output and speed for Keldeo to be as potent as possible offensively.
  • Specs Keldeo, like the other variants, appreciates Pursuit support to eliminate various common checks and counters.
  • U-turn support from something like Scizor can be quite helpful as Scizor specifically is complimentary with Keldeo defensively and overall, Keldeo appreciates the easier pivots in.
  • However, this variant of Keldeo mainly functions as a wallbreaker and a strong offensive presence, so it doesn't necessarily require much support whatsoever as it does a significant amount individually thanks to the strength of its attacks.

[SET]
name: Substitute + Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Secret Sword
move 4: Substitute
item: Leftovers
ability: Justified
nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
  • This set, unlike most other Keldeo sets, has the goal of sweeping the opposing team as opposed to breaking through the opposing team or revenge killing.
  • Calm Mind is for boosting special attack and special defense in order to set up for a sweep.
  • Substitute is to block opposing status and take weaker moves without being vulnerable to any extra damage or secondary effects.
  • Hydro Pump and Secret Sword are both STAB moves that round out the set and give Keldeo fair coverage.
  • Leftovers are used to help keep Keldeo alive after it must endure attacks and Substitute damage while setting up and sweeping.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • The EVs are straightforward and maximize the offensive presence of Keldeo.
  • Scald or Surf may be used over Hydro Pump for more reliable damage. With this said, the drop in power is noteworthy. Scald provides a burn chance for not much less power than Surf, but Surf is still a viable middle-ground between the two moves.
  • Pursuit support is especially helpful here as Keldeo has no means of damaging Latios or Latias while they have Psyshock to break through Calm Mind Keldeo.

Checks and Counters (this will be sloppy, will fix later)
  • Latias, Latios, Celebi (hp bug), Jellicent, Gastrodon (hp grass), Slowking, Amoonguss
  • Starmie, Tentacruel, Toxicroak, Gyarados (hp elec), Roserade
  • Alakazam, Tornadus, scarfers

Other Options (this will be sloppy, will fix later)
  • Surf or Scald over Hydro
  • Focus Blast (please no)
  • Swords Dance (please no)
  • SubSalac (maybe Endeavor)
  • Coba or Wacan berry
  • HP Ice + dual water STAB
  • Taunt, Toxic, Rain Dance

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Finchinator

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OU Leader
This is ready for QC for the most part now. Sorry it took too long - I procrastinated way too much and it is 100% my fault..won't let this happen again, without a doubt. Will neaten up the C&C + OO once some others give their thoughts!

Note: Will wait for comments from everyone until end of weekend before I edit the OP accordingly and then hopefully this will be QC check ready! Thanks for everyone who commented so far

e: ok so it's late and i sorta gotta get my driving license tomorrow so gonna postpone this one more day, sorry ik it's not the right way to approach contributing and all.
 
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Jirachee

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Keldeo is a very self sufficient pokemon but there are still some things that work especially well with it that I think you should add to partners.

U-turn Scizor works especially well with pretty much every kind of Keldeo because it screws with Psychic types while also luring in stuff like Landorus-T that Keldeo easily takes advantage of. I think you should mention it on EBelt, CM, and Specs at least.

EBelt works well with Latios, because it can take advantage of Tyranitar and Steel types in general while Latios can switch into Poison types (Tentacruel and Amoonguss) which tend to be the only thing that always give trouble to EBelt Keldeo. U-turn of all kind usually always works well with it too because it's hard to not make compromises when it gets in, so stuff like Landorus-T and Jirachi can work well as partners.

CM is a set I don't think really needs Spikes to work, so I wouldn't mention it, however since it opens holes through teams it works well with some kind of fast cleaner, like Alakazam or Thundurus-T for example. I also think it works especially well with SD Scizor because the Ghost Gem variant crushes Jellicent and Scizor can use the Lati twins or Celebi or Amoonguss or whatever to set up easily, and those tend to switch into Keldeo a lot.

Specs really likes having something that can take advantage of the things it can't break. Amoonguss tends to give it a lot of trouble so Skarmory can take advantage of those opportunities. Also, I think you should put more emphasis on Pursuit because Choice Keldeo tends to appreciate the support a lot more than non-Choice ones as it's a much bigger deal to lock yourself into Icy Wind or a weak ass Hidden Power

SubCM is cool and all on paper but you need to mention its downsides, like Jellicent being a giant cock to it. It's one of the few Pokemon that really appreciate Toxic Spikes support and as such Roserade can be a really nice partner. You don't want to stack on Waters with Tentacruel. It also fits better on much slower-paced teams with solid defenses because it can't just set up and sweep as it wants

Also I'd probably mention Icy Wind over HP Electric on CM + 3 Atks because Ice coverage is always nice especially when it gives you a chance to surprise one of your most common checks (Latios)
 
icy wind is also really good in lategame scenarios where you don't want that passho volc or multiscaled nite or gyara grabbing that speed boost and sweeping. total lifesaver.

does subcm need hydro? think I would prefer scald to help wear down amoonguss, makes trapping bulky star and latias much easier as well.

not sure about coba. specs torn still really lights into it (81% to ohko from full lol) and sharp beak does 77-91. this doesn't sound like it's gonna be very useful. I would rather see a mention of payapa (imagining a last mon zam failing to kill and getting icy winded here, could also help a frail offense vs tr reun). hell custap would probably be better.

slowbro isn't an awful check btw. shouldn't be the sole one obv but it can pivot well thanks to regen. worth mentioning, as is sdef jira who can really be a prick to just about every non-rain/lum cm set. however he's major spikes fodder and skarm is a pal.

I've been using cm + hp psychic and it is actually quite good. toxicroak/tentacruel fold to it so you trouble a lot of rain and you also smoke amoonguss.

agree with jewrachee's points, lol :P

this post was all over the place, sorry about that

oh and this is a while ago but I have seen chesto rest used to solid effect so I think it's worth a mention. keld's stab combo is That good, emphasize the hell outta this
 
popping in to reinforce chestorest. ravages a lot of teams that depend on defensive answers to beat keldeo because it can just keep boosting against a lot of them, and it can re-rest vs defensive builds.
 
payapa needs a mention as bkc said. in cm sets (only w/ hp ghost imo) lets you to take on any off starmie thinking they're safe to psyshock, also means you don't take ~70% from bulky starmie before taken it down, u can 1v1 any latios even specs psyshock and u only need some prior damage to ohko it, also helps vs others like celebi, slowking, even vs zam in late game scenario u can lure it and break his sash if needed lol. better than others oo options like sd (lol) or coba imo

also life orb oo for all-out-attakcer (aka ebelt), i personally dislike it so much, but i know some ppl like it, and the extra power has real uses like the ohko on non-yache chomp at full w/ icy wind

even tho i know u guys r so much of a fan of scald, i do think u undersells surf a bit, esp on scarf the power is really huge in this gen. scald on keldeo never looked so appealing for me in bw, because water inmune mons are at its best this gen so no burns here, and u either overwhelm ur checks like latios or rotom-w by consecutive rain boosted hydros or u either pursuit the shit out of them, which i do think imho are better strategies in this gen. in scarf keld case i do think power brings more to the table at the end of day, cuz its a more tailored set to late game (unlike other off waters using scald, like scarf toed where the power diff isn't as huge as it plays a role of more utility set and fishing for burns is good tactic vs rain checks) so having a 2nd stab w/ good power/acc balance is good in a lot of cases imo. some randoms calc:

252 SpA Keldeo Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Rain: 267-315 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Rain: 225-265 (63 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

think about those scenarios in late-game where u don't want to miss hydro vs weakened teams, scald neeeds a lot more of prior damage (even if scald burns, surf does same here). not a great example but i hope u get my point. also funny fact that hydro still outdamages scald even if it burns. also scald is 30% u can spam it 5 times and dont get paid off, even tho some ppl think its 100% .-.

what i wanted to say is i would make a stronger mention of surf on scarf set or slash tbh, also specs can drop icy wind for a 2nd acc stab (it still does little to amoonguss, and the other targets in lati@s are pursuited/overwhelmed and is not extrictly neccesary for nite) so i'll mention surf/scald imo

same on subcm set scald/surf > hydro imo (more acc and pps and subcm is tailored to more slow set up so not extrictly neccesary the hydro power)

that are some of my thoughts, wanted to share them :toast:

e: this post was a bit of a mess sorry about this
 
Finchinator, are you still planning on doing this? Looks like you were implementing QC checks already, so maybe just tag one of those guys for a final look-over first if you do want to write it up~
 

Finchinator

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is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
Finchinator, are you still planning on doing this? Looks like you were implementing QC checks already, so maybe just tag one of those guys for a final look-over first if you do want to write it up~
Tbh I'm really busy w/ school now, but I'll try and look back at it tonight or tomorrow night bc there's ppl over rn!
 
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