Other Metagames Analysis Discussion

Skymin allthough adapt lets it 2hko chansey, it severely compromises its general "oomph" where "ok it 2hkos chansey...what about the rest of the meta?" adapt just gives it so many counters...FF ferrothorn, goodra, levitate heatran, tinted lens and sheer force at least lets you tackle on ALL of these threats, the reason tinted is the top set, was because i feel like skymins dual stabs are HORRIBLE, and its coverage is lacking. sheer force gives you strong coverage at the cost of seed flares effects, and serene grace lets you hax through everything. adaptability, allthough typically an amazing option on anything with tinted, just isnt good on a pokemon who severely suffers from "terrible stab coverage" and "limited coverage for aaa standards" chansey is literally the only thing adapt breaks through...which forces it to become countered by like, 6 new things.
FF ferrothorn and goodra are things that neither sheer force or tinted lens can beat. ff ferrothorn is something that adaptability can beat while tinted can't. And I don't think getting past the biggest counter to every special attacker is a small achievement. Most stuff that tinted can kill, adapt can kill too. There are a few exceptions, but then again, there are things that adapt can deal with while tinted has trouble dealing with if it doesn't get a drop like escavalier, umbreon, meloetta, snorlax (tinted doesn't even get a guaranteed ohko on ttar). Meanwhile sheer force can... idk, apparantly it can "tackle" goodra or levitran?...

because physical tini simply does everything mixed wants to do and more. what does mixed tini get that physical just doesnt do better? it KO's everything it needs too, still struggles with the same checks and counters, and above that, forces itself to run a life orb, which puts it on a timer a fire type with a SR AND spikes weakness REALLY wants to avoid, especially when its #1 counter,FF ferrothorn has access to both. think about it, mixed tini gives it access to glaciate, blue flare, solar beam and thunderbolt, NONE of these moves stops ANY of its counters from switching in, other then FF doublade if it runs max spc attack, which still checks it. theres a reason mixtini isnt a OU set, and its the same reason here.
Fat dragons and ff ground types are a big portion of victini counters. Tc can't really deal with chomper or zygarde. Can't really touch ff landoT or gliscor either and doesn't have a lot of options to hit other stuff like diancie or primaSea magnezone. Has to sacrifice precious coverage if it wants to hit ff chesnaught and can almost never touch slowbro. At least slap grass knot on the banded set since you can somewhat damage most far rock types. (Also, mixTini can 2hko ferrothorn on focus blast).

PH snorlax much prefers the bulk its spread gives, over its ability to defeat cune. however, i do beleive it deserves a mention(i wasnt around for this QC)
Ok, that's more like your opinion than a fact and having used both extensively I honestly feel like offensive is better, having more immediate presence and being able to muscle past a lot of its switchins. But really they're both separate sets and I don't really know why you can't just put them both in the analisys (kinda like scizor has offensive sd and defensive sd).


That messages seems kinda messy, but I'm tired so eh.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
FF ferrothorn and goodra are things that neither sheer force or tinted lens can beat. ff ferrothorn is something that adaptability can beat while tinted can't. And I don't think getting past the biggest counter to every special attacker is a small achievement. Most stuff that tinted can kill, adapt can kill too. There are a few exceptions, but then again, there are things that adapt can deal with while tinted has trouble dealing with if it doesn't get a drop like escavalier, umbreon, meloetta, snorlax (tinted doesn't even get a guaranteed ohko on ttar). Meanwhile sheer force can... idk, apparantly it can "tackle" goodra or levitran?...

Fat dragons and ff ground types are a big portion of victini counters. Tc can't really deal with chomper or zygarde. Can't really touch ff landoT or gliscor either and doesn't have a lot of options to hit other stuff like diancie or primaSea magnezone. Has to sacrifice precious coverage if it wants to hit ff chesnaught and can almost never touch slowbro. At least slap grass knot on the banded set since you can somewhat damage most far rock types. (Also, mixTini can 2hko ferrothorn on focus blast).

Ok, that's more like your opinion than a fact and having used both extensively I honestly feel like offensive is better, having more immediate presence and being able to muscle past a lot of its switchins. But really they're both separate sets and I don't really know why you can't just put them both in the analisys (kinda like scizor has offensive sd and defensive sd).


That messages seems kinda messy, but I'm tired so eh.
fair enough , skymin cant really break ferrothorn (not even with adapt) tinted comes closer to handling it, but standard AV goodra (not max spc def calm) loses to life orb tinted lens shaymin, and can handle adapt shaymin, while tinted can consistantly just spam seed flare on these threats(on the event of misspredicts or something), where adapt forces it to use a "neutral hit" and gives it less opportunities. i was mostly talking about tinted when talking about levitran and goodra. sheer force was the main set, so i just kinda stuck with it. if you want powerful attacks, sheer force is better, if you want to spam seed flare, tinted lens works better. adapt on paper turns it into a monsterous attacker, but in reality, it cant even spam seed flare due to how many resists exist in this tier, and even with adapt, it lacks the power to set up KO's with its coverage. adapt just doesn't deserve a mention. the problem is, even with the attack boosts, you still fail to beat threats the others can, at the benifit of picking off chansey, which tinted lens and serene grace still have a chance to do so themselves.

idk, bandtini might have problems with the dragons, but thats why sheer force runs glaciate is it not? i guess deso mixed tini could be a decent "compromise" of the two sets, but i still feel like the dragons arent really worth running some hybrid set of "v-create, glaciate, bolt strike, and something else, because enless you run max spc attack, you fail to take out the mentioned dragons anyways. and if you run max spc attack, suddenly suicune, ff doublade, and others suddenly wall you. i just dont see where mixtinis "niche" comes in...slashing grass knot was something i was considering mentioning, but i kinda decided not to mention. since yeah, other then diancie, its pretty good. i was only thinking ttar and hippo, and was like "well ttar can pursuit trap tini, and hippo still dies to v-create...so idk" i figured it wasn't really worth running.

also... 252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 207-243 (49.2 - 57.8%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, it can handle non PH zygarde, and deso 2hkos PH zyggy. and iirc, even with the speed drop, it still outspeeds. yeah, this kinda shocked me.. i didnt think it was that good (zyggy is like...the bulkiest dragon resist)

and lastly, did you not notice "i wasnt around for this QC" my opinion didnt sway the end result, and the reason i say so, is because from what ive seen from using all variants of lax, snorlax REALLY struggles without all of its bulk, but again, i never DID this QC so i couldnt have mentioned it. and lastly, saying "max attack is better" is also your opinion. and idk if you have, but ive used both extensively, and cringed at lax's lack of bulk
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Just want to point out that in the Mega pidgeot analysis which has been uploaded, it mentions mega Metagross which has been banned. Can it be fixed?

Tagging Joshz unfixable
 

Josh

=P
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The only mention is its own section under Checks/Counters, just delete that part.

"Mega Metagross: Mega Metagross avoids the 2HKO from Heat Wave and OHKOes Mega Pidgeot with Heavy Slam in return. Mega Pidgeot can threaten Mega Metagross with Sing, but it loses if Mega Metagross's Speed has been boosted."

Edit @ below v dunno how to do CMS.
 
The only mention is its own section under Checks/Counters, just delete that part.

"Mega Metagross: Mega Metagross avoids the 2HKO from Heat Wave and OHKOes Mega Pidgeot with Heavy Slam in return. Mega Pidgeot can threaten Mega Metagross with Sing, but it loses if Mega Metagross's Speed has been boosted."
No, like I literally cannot click on the edit lol. Mobile won't let me. Can you remove it, put it on CMS, and I'll merge it? That much I can do.
 

baconbagon

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Kyurem's recently uploaded AAA analysis only has the first two sets. It lacks Other Options and Checks and Counters
 
For the mega pokemons in bh like ttar, diancie or ray the import has the base form instead of the mega is it possible to change it?
I believe this is something only chaos can do and I don't know how time-consuming it would be. Let me get back to you soon!
 
Hello, I'd like to propose a change to the BH Shedinja analysis. In the first (Defensive Pivot) set, Endeavor is slashed in move 4, while I believe it should be in slot 2 next to Pain Split. Endeavor shouldn't be slashed with Recycle and Safeguard because they serve completely different roles. The former 2 are for keeping Shedinja free of status while Endeavor serves the same purpose as Pain Split, reducing the enemy's HP. It makes no sense to run both Pain Split and Endeavor together on the same set. Safeguard/Recycle are essential to keeping Shedinja alive since status is common and Endeavor should never be run over them.
 
Hello, I'd like to propose a change to the BH Shedinja analysis. In the first (Defensive Pivot) set, Endeavor is slashed in move 4, while I believe it should be in slot 2 next to Pain Split. Endeavor shouldn't be slashed with Recycle and Safeguard because they serve completely different roles. The former 2 are for keeping Shedinja free of status while Endeavor serves the same purpose as Pain Split, reducing the enemy's HP. It makes no sense to run both Pain Split and Endeavor together on the same set. Safeguard/Recycle are essential to keeping Shedinja alive since status is common and Endeavor should never be run over them.
Uselesscrab
 

baconbagon

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Why is Psychic on the Choice Scarf Hoopa-U set in STABmons?
It allows Hoopa-U to revenge kill Pokemon that resist Hyperspace Fury, such as non-Choice Scarf Keldeo, Mega Diancie, and Terrakion

4 SpA Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 338-398 (104.6 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 144-169 (59.7 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 338-398 (104.6 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

However, unlike Zen Headbutt, it deals a notable amount of damage to standard physical tanks and walls.

4 SpA Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 184-217 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 266-314 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Amoonguss: 372-440 (86.1 - 101.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Hoopa Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 118-141 (30.8 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Hoopa Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 192-228 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Hoopa Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 276-326 (63.8 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
 

dhelmise

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Hoopa-U doesnt need psystrike because it already has three physical attacks, all of which would hit harder than psystrike because there's more attack investment. Psychic lets HOOPA U hit physically defensive Pokemon.
 
Psystrike > Psychic ???
4 SpA Hoopa Unbound Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 135-159 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Hoopa Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 184-217 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery4

for example!

since it already has physical moves there's no reason you would realistically need psystrike because, although it has higher bp, it doesn't hit anything important, meanwhile psychic gets the defensive walls that psystrike doesn't.
 
Hi, so I think the deoxys-speed aaa analysis definitely needs to be changed, specifically the offensive set. I don't like download at all, Sheer Force is so much better than Download. SF Deoxys-s is an insanely good cleaner due to it's sanic speed and very high damage output. Now you're thinking that SF Deo-s isn't able to break Chansey, right? Well that is most certainly not true, as Deoxys-Speed can afford to run Nasty Plot to tear up offensive and defensive teams alike, at any point in the game. People might thing that I'm overhyping this thing, but it is an incredible pokemon that has won me an absurd amount of games.

Here's the set btw:

Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (I'll find a better spread)
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot / Shadow Ball (added shadow ball slash since I rarely find myself using np)
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

I would be willing to write the analysis, and I think I'm allowed to right now since megagar is in gp?
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 333-393 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 247-291 (63.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 161-190 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Doublade: 73-86 (22.6 - 26.7%) -- 97.8% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 100-118 (29.3 - 34.6%) -- 8.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Braviary: 338-400 (99.1 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 253-300 (68.1 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 247-291 (82.6 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah, now that I think about it, modest is probably the better nature by far. This is an amazing set that definitely deserves an analysis.
Yeah bumping this, still believe that it's deo's best set by a considerable margin. It seems a lot more consistent than download considering that you don't have to rely on going in on a pokemon with the lower defense stat to raise your stat as opposed to just being able to hit hard. Maybe you don't delete the download set but I still see little reason to use it over this
 

cant say

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A Facebook follower just PMed us notifying that Moltres' AAA analysis onsite is its STABmons one, so it has that one twice...

edit: oh yeah I meant the other way around, lol.
 

baconbagon

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A Facebook follower just PMed us notifying that Moltres' AAA analysis onsite is its STABmons one, so it has that one twice...
Actually the analysis uploaded under STABmons is its AAA one and Moltres is unviable in STABmons, so we'll have to delete the STABmons analysis altogether

edit: ok rip I'll just delete my CMS thing
 
Last edited:
A Facebook follower just PMed us notifying that Moltres' AAA analysis onsite is its STABmons one, so it has that one twice...

edit: oh yeah I meant the other way around, lol.
i thought i'd deleted it but apparently i never sent it and it was just a draft -_-

it should be off the site within a few minutes!
 

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