Project ORAS NU Teambuilding Frameworks

[lolbro]

approved by Raseri and Disjunction. In loving memory of ryan
credits to Rapture. , Winter's Howl, Disjunction and Kiyo for helping me

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amazing banner by Pastelle

ORAS NU Teambuilding Frameworks​

Hello everyone! Have you ever been stuck whilst building a team, and not quite sure what to add next? Then this is the thread for you! This thread is here to serve as a guideline for when you get stuck building any of the archetypes contained below. It aims to aid players in staying on course when building so to not overload on any one particular area, so that we hope they can make the most out of their teams, and enjoy themselves battling. Help is appreciated! This means that you are free to requests a write-up of a certain viable archetype, and if you are given permission you may write up a framework as seen below. Happy building NU!

Contributing to This Thread

Requesting:

• Either VM any of the people managing this thread asking for an archetype or post below

• Make sure the archetype is meta-relevant and viable, meaning not super nichey

• If we know you have good knowledge of the tier, you are probably going to get accepted-we don't want joe schmoe the eskimo writing for us

Submitting:

• Simply post the core to any archetype we have up
• Provide a short explanation of what the mons do, preferably fitting in to the roles we have
• Please have sprites in post
• VMing managers of the thread is also OK. (so rapture and I)

Example Post

Example post by Can-Eh-Dian

i forget when i made this team (it was sometime before w1 of spl) but i just found it in my teambuilder and it fits one of the frameworks so i thought i'd share. its a little different from what's already been submitted but that's kind of my building style so i hope that's ok

VoltTurn

importable

Ninetales @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Psyshock

Scyther @ Eviolite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Aerial Ace
- Roost
- Swords Dance

Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam

Sceptile @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
- Earthquake

Rotom @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Hex

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave

i think i built this with the idea of trying to build a squad that does well vs balance-oriented teams. Ninetales does rly well vs balance builds rn and you'll notice hp electric over energy ball, that's just to hit mantine. I have claydol for donner and regi anyways. The voltturn core is scyther + rotom cause they have rly good synergy and wear down each others checks, as well as getting in ninetales safely. claydol is the glue that provides hazard support (which is a necessity on voltturn builds) and can maybe bait in a xatu or 2 which helps clef. sceptile is the wallbreaker and it provides some natural speed as well as synergizing well w/ ninetales (break down the same stuff etc). Clef is my rocker and general check to scary stuff like magmortar and swellow that normally runs over builds like this (esp w/o lanturn). i feel like it does a better job than lanturn as well cause it doesnt get worn down nearly as fast. this team is weak to kangaskhan and SD scept (and so are most of the teams in this archetype) but they arent unwinnable matchups, you just have to play better than normal in order to win.

tl;dr:
-framework+little backstory
-Importable+Sprites
-Description

Needed Archetypes

• malamar
• buskenpass
• Charizard [Balance and Offense]
• Omastar [Balance and Offense]
• Weathers: Hail and Sand
• Hazard Stack [Hyper Offense; Balance and Bulky Offense]
• Stall

General Things to Cover in NU:

High Priority

- Fighting-type check
- Normal-type check*
- Water-type check*
- Flying-type check
- Rotom check*

*if you aren't hard countering this, you might want to consider a secondary check

Medium Priority

-Check to +1/+1 Malamar
-Check to Lilligant / Vivillon
-Ground-type check
-Electric-type immunity
-Fire-type resist
-Shell Smash Check

Low Priority

-If 2/3 of your team is weak to Stealth Rock, I would always prioritize a Defog or Rapid Spin user.
-Choice Scarf user or Pokemon that deal with all threats base 105 Speed and above (examples below)
-Pyroar
-Scyther
-Swellow
-Tauros
-Archeops

Check out our Role Compendium if you'd like see the most viable checks - http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-nu-role-compendium.3524139/

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Archetypes
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"KangaSpikes"

KangaSpikes framework

1. Kangaskhan
2. (Toxic) Spikes setter (Garbodor, Roselia, etc.)
3. Ghost-type (Hazard Control / Prevention)
4. Wallbreaker (Magmortar, Sawk, etc.)
5. Stealth Rock setter
6. Late-game Cleaner (Swellow, Sceptile, etc)

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- Blaziken1337

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- Queen Of Luvdiscs

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- Piscean

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-Allstar124

• Having a reliable Spikes setter is fundamental to the success of KangaSpikes as it makes the priority from Kangaskhan and the teams wallbreaker that much tougher to deal with.
• For that reason, Garbodor is typically paired with Kangaskhan since it is one of the best pivots in the tier and can lay spikes down rather easily due to the number of physical attackers it can check
• Either a way to spin block or a spinner of your own is used in order to provide more pressure from hazards on your opponent
• Having some form of volt switch or U-turn support is good for forcing more switches on your opponent's side and bringing in Kangaskhan or another wallbreaker safely
  • Piscean's team does not have this, ergo forcing him to predict better

Normal "Spam"

Normal Spam framework

1. Normal-type attacker
2. Normal-type attacker
3. Wallbreaker (can also be normal type)
4. Bulky Grass-type (Checks Samurott/Poli)
5. Fighting-type Check (Musharna, Gourgeist, Roselia, Golurk)
6. Water-type (fire resist)

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-Finchinator

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-Kiyo

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- Metaphysical

• This team archetype relies on overwhelming the opposing teams normal checks so that one of the normal types on the team can clean up late game
• Kangaskhan, Tauros, and Swellow will commonly find themselves on normal spam due to their ability of being able to lure common normal checks like Steelix, Ferroseed, Gourgeist, etc.
• All teams of this archetype should possess a solid way of dealing with Fighting types, as seen with Musharna, Garbodor, and Golurk + Roselia on Finchinator, Kiyo and Metaphysical’s teams respectively.

VoltTurn

Volt-Turn framework

1. VoltTurn Pivot
2. VoltTurn Pivot
3. Stealth Rock Setter
4. Wallbreaker
5. Late-Game Cleaner / Set-up Sweeper
6. Glue

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-Queen Of Luvdiscs

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-Rapture

• All three teams use a bulky and fast u-turner/volt switcher
  • gains momentum to bring in wallbreaker / Cleaner
  • can be used as effective pivots
  • Team #1 uses a Stealth rock setter in this spot
• Here the three teams all have somewhat effective Hazard Setters
  • As team #1 has freed the Stealth Rock slot, tennis uses a Garbodor here to form a spike stacking core
  • QoL effectively uses Probopass here as a third slow momentum gainer in order to bring in Pyroar and Primeape, as well as being a secondary normal check
• In the fourth slot go 3 frailer, more powerful offensive pokemon who don't like residual damage from neutral and resisted hits
  • This goes especially for wallbreakers like the three aforementioned wallbreakers, as some may lower defenses, and other might be weak to hazards
• In this fifth slot, all three teams use either a bulky setup user, or a decently powerful pokemon with a good speed tier to allow for picking off the weakened pokemon
  • QoL utilizes Primeape for it's late game presence with the decent speed tier of 95
  • Jynx here is a pokemon here that not only has a decent speed tier, but has lovely kiss and nasty plot to set-up and plow through weaker teams
• This 6th slot is used for a glue mon; a pokemon that provides added help to a role that the team needs
  • Tennis uses mismagius to form to soft checks to fighting types with colbur mismag and Garbodor
  • Kiyo has articuno here because of it's speed tier, being able to assist prinplup in checking waters
  • Queen Of Luvdiscs has Gourgeist in this slot, because xatu is a lackluster solo fighting resist, and gourgeist also help in checking rhydon, on top of acting like a solid check to sawk

Rain

Rain framework

1. Liepard
2. [Reliable Rain Dancer with Stealth Rock]
3. Ludicolo
4. Kabutops
5. [Abuser / Backup Rain Dancer]
6. Fast Cleaner

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-HJAD

• All rain teams use the same prankster setter, doubling as a quick pivot with uturn
• All rain teams use either a fast RD setter, or a bulkier one with the ability to set more than once
• Fast abuser with ability to self-set
• SD Cleaner with strong Priority
• Poliwrath serves as a reliable backup wincon with swift swim Belly Drum
• SS Byss makes a reliable cleaner, also benefitting from the rain with Swift Swim, or even utilising Hydration to cure paralysis

WORKS IN PROGRESS ARE ACCEPTED JUST POST THEM BELOW​

 

[Piscean]

Name: KangaSpikes

Kangaskhan

/ Garbodor

/ Rotom

/ Aurorus

/ Sandslash

/ Samurott

Team Layout

• Slot 1: Kangaskhan(The Core!)

• Slot 2: Garbodor(Toxic/Spikes) - For my 1st hazard setter I decided to go with Garbodor (shocker). What can I say? It's really good at what it does. Not only does it get to play around with both types of spikes, its Rocky Helmet set nicely punishes spinners; widdling their health away faster than their Leftovers can regenerate for them. Rotom is also a nice compliment to Garbodor as it just outright blocks spinning once the hazards are up and can come back at the enemy with a crippling Will-O or pivot to a stronger teammate.

• Slot 3: Rotom(Hex + SpinBlock) - Rotom is here to take up the 3rd slot as the spin-blocker. Rotom brings some decent Special bulk to this team, which was well needed. With its ability to use Hex to capitalize on the constant Poison status Toxic Spikes would cause, it would only seem fitting to stuff it in on this sort of team. Having Volt Switch for that extra bit of momentum never hurt either.

• Slot 4: Aurorus(Wallbreaker) - For the wall breaker slot I decided to opt for Aurorus; a beautiful mon that I don't see too often but when I do, it shakes teams apart. Its Refrigerate boosted, STAB, Modest, Specs Hyper Voice annihilates slower teams that aren't prepared for it. Seeing as how its main attacking move ignores Substitutes as well, even SubRotoms have reason to fear it. It can also make use of Freeze-Dry to surprise and tear down bulky Water-types that would otherwise counter it. For a better visual, have a look at what Aurorus can do to some of the meta's bulkier mons:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Musharna: 267-315 (61.6 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Audino: 213-252 (51.9 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aurorus Freeze-Dry vs. 248 HP / 228+ SpD Mantine: 364-432 (109.3 - 129.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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Another major benefit of Aurorus is its offensive typing, especially for a team like this that resents Defoggers since it is definitely not a kind friend to Flying-Types.

• Slot 5: Sandslash(Spinner) - Sandslash is one of only 5 mons in NU that can sets up its own rocks and spin the enemy's away altogether - and that's where it finds its niche. What persuaded me to pick Sandslash over the other 4 was its ability punish grounded Poison Types that are sent in to absorb the Toxic Spikes set by Garbodor (looking at you Skuntank & Muk). Sandslash forces these mons back out unless they like the taste of a SE STAB Earthquake, which results in even more hazard damage on the switch. For a 4th slot, Slash can run Knock Off to add a bit more of an "annoying" factor to it or it can go with Stone Edge to gain coverage on the incoming Flying-type Defoggers. (Or anything you want to run tbh xd)

• Slot 6: Samurott(Sweeper) - Samurott is versatility. It can be straight Physical, Special or Mixed, it has the stats and moveset to always bring a feeling of unpredictability to the battle. You can choose between a Surf abuser, Dragon Tail troll or opt for more priority on your team in the form of Aqua Jet! Samurott just has a lot to play around with so you, the teambuilder should adjust its sets to fit what you're looking for in a late game sweeper and your play style.

So there's my team concept, hopefully I didn't mess it up or just make a bad team lol.
Deuces.

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[lolbro]

Congrats to Rapture. for being the new co-leader !dt celebrate

 

[Rapture]

would posted this earlier but Genesis 3 hype too strong, anyway here are some teams I've been using that fit the archetypes!

Kangaspikes

Importable

Kangaskhan @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch

Garbodor @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 Spe
Impish Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split

Musharna @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 172 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Signal Beam
- Psyshock

Hitmonchan @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Rapid Spin
- Mach Punch

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Atk / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Sceptile @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake

Team Layout

Kangaskhan is the cornerstone of this playstyle and I opted for the standard Silk scarf set since it is the most consistent. Next I ran a decently fast garbodor which can outpace most Abomasnow sets while staying bulky enough to handle most physical attackers. Pain Split is a good last move on Garbodor to keep itself healthy but it can definitely change for something like Focus Blast to lure in Steelix, which is something the team definitely appreciates. The Musharna spread is Ev'd to handle most fire types in the tier and be able to set up on them and keep itself healthy enough for repeated switchins. AV chan is our "reliable" hazard control and has decently strong priority to pick off mons weakened by hazards. i also opted to run Thunder Punch to lure in defog mons like Pelipper and Mantine. Standard.standard set on steelix so not gonna go in detail about what it does, tho running some speed creep is probs a good idea. Mixed sceptile rounds out this team as this teams late game cleaner.

Volt-Turn

Importable

Haunter @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Reflect Type

Hitmonchan @ Fist Plate
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch

Pyroar @ Life Orb
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hyper Voice
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Mawile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Baton Pass

Lanturn @ Assault Vest
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 148 SpD / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Volt Switch
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Scyther @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wing Attack
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Bug Bite

Team Layout

A solid volt-turn core of Scarf Scyther, Av Lanturn, and defensive Mawile has pretty nice type synergy and can be really hard to handle once some momentum gets going. I chose Pyroar and Haunter as the teams wallbreakers since both appreciate the free switchins that Lanturn and Scyther give them. Reflect type with Haunter is fun to mess with mons like Steelix and Rhydon, though something like Destiny Bond can work to nab a surprise ko. Hitmonchan is our spinner once again since I really like it on these kind of offensive teams.

Just a little something to fill out the teams a bit more, I'll probs write up some archetypes this week as well so keep an eye out for that!

 

[Evan.]

i forget when i made this team (it was sometime before w1 of spl) but i just found it in my teambuilder and it fits one of the frameworks so i thought i'd share. its a little different from what's already been submitted but that's kind of my building style so i hope that's ok

VoltTurn

importable

Ninetales @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Psyshock

Scyther @ Eviolite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Aerial Ace
- Roost
- Swords Dance

Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam

Sceptile @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
- Earthquake

Rotom @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Hex

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave

i think i built this with the idea of trying to build a squad that does well vs balance-oriented teams. Ninetales does rly well vs balance builds rn and you'll notice hp electric over energy ball, that's just to hit mantine. I have claydol for donner and regi anyways. The voltturn core is scyther + rotom cause they have rly good synergy and wear down each others checks, as well as getting in ninetales safely. claydol is the glue that provides hazard support (which is a necessity on voltturn builds) and can maybe bait in a xatu or 2 which helps clef. sceptile is the wallbreaker and it provides some natural speed as well as synergizing well w/ ninetales (break down the same stuff etc). Clef is my rocker and general check to scary stuff like magmortar and swellow that normally runs over builds like this (esp w/o lanturn). i feel like it does a better job than lanturn as well cause it doesnt get worn down nearly as fast. this team is weak to kangaskhan and SD scept (and so are most of the teams in this archetype) but they arent unwinnable matchups, you just have to play better than normal in order to win.

 

[Abejas]

I'll post the Kangaspikes team I had a great run with.

Import

Garbodor @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Def / 136 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch

Kangaskhan @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 240 HP / 128 Atk / 136 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Hariyama @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch

Rotom @ Spell Tag
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Hex
- Pain Split

Jynx @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psyshock
- Lovely Kiss
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast

So the team consist of the standard core of kangaskhan and garbodor which is very good in this meta. I added steelix since it provides rocks and a good psychic check, being able to toxic and not being worried of synchronize from musharna. Next off I needed a fire resist so I put the standard av hariyama, I perfer to use fake out over eq on yama since it provides a good jynx check and also is very usefull with toxic spikes. After that I needed a spin blocker so rotom was the next adition to the team, Pain split can be switched out for shadow ball. And in the end I saw that the team was kinda slow and needed a strong special attacker so I added scarf jynx which is a great late game cleaner and also a good soft check to samurott. Not much more to say, Just hope you enjoy it and have a good time with it :].

 

[Take Azelfie]

WIP

1. Chlorophyll User
2. Chlorophyll User
3. Liepard
4. Sun Setter (Mesprit or Regirock)
5. Fire-type (Pyroar, Charizard, Magmortor)
6. Choice Scarfer (One preferably has a good match-up against Posion-types)

• Relies on overwhelming opponents with fast and powerful Pokemon that abuse Grass and Fire Spam.
• Has Liepard to help set up Sun instantly. Liepard also has U-turn to keep up momentum.
• A bulky sun setter gives the team a pivot and Stealth Rocks, compressing roles to leave room for more wallbreakers and sweepers.
• Scarfers that deal with Poison aid in removing pressure from your Grass-types while also providing a revenge killer for when Sun isn't up

 

[Evan.]

NEW FRAMEWORK ALERT: WISPZARD OFFENSE

Some of you guys might have noticed that a couple of my 2nd half SPL teams and a bunch of my ladder teams post-spl have looked very similar, and they all feature my favourite mon to use: SD Wisp Charizard. This archetype has shown tournament success and the builds that arise from it are usually pretty solid, anyways the teams always seem to follow the format of:

• SD Wisp Charizard
• Hazard Removal
• A Strong Breaker of some sort
• Fat SR mon
• Glue (usually an extra fire check of some sort, or if a mon takes up multiple slots, there can be a second glue here to help the late game cleaner function)
• Late-Game Cleaner / Fast mon

SAMPLES:

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These are all teams that I made during SPL and adjusted for the non-sceptile metagame. I feel like they make the most out of Bulky WispZard's defensive and offensive potential on more offensive builds and are usually very consistent from what i've seen. There are definitely some weaks that the builds have, especially w/ sceptile being gone (scyther is a notable one) although there's probably other variations that can excel in the current metagame, but I just wanted to make this post to bring this type of team structure to light, since i've been having a lot of fun playing w/ these types of teams for the past month or so.

also regarding this thread in general: it's an incredibly valuable resource for newer players and it sucks that it died so soon. Hopefully this post can inject some new life into it, since I think this thread has potential to be a really good one if done right.

 

[Kiyo]

NEW FRAMEWORK ALERT: WISPZARD OFFENSE

Some of you guys might have noticed that a couple of my 2nd half SPL teams and a bunch of my ladder teams post-spl have looked very similar, and they all feature my favourite mon to use: SD Wisp Charizard. This archetype has shown tournament success and the builds that arise from it are usually pretty solid, anyways the teams always seem to follow the format of:

• SD Wisp Charizard
• Hazard Removal
• A Strong Breaker of some sort
• Fat SR mon
• Glue (usually an extra fire check of some sort, or if a mon takes up multiple slots, there can be a second glue here to help the late game cleaner function)
• Late-Game Cleaner / Fast mon

SAMPLES:

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These are all teams that I made during SPL and adjusted for the non-sceptile metagame. I feel like they make the most out of Bulky WispZard's defensive and offensive potential on more offensive builds and are usually very consistent from what i've seen. There are definitely some weaks that the builds have, especially w/ sceptile being gone (scyther is a notable one) although there's probably other variations that can excel in the current metagame, but I just wanted to make this post to bring this type of team structure to light, since i've been having a lot of fun playing w/ these types of teams for the past month or so.

also regarding this thread in general: it's an incredibly valuable resource for newer players and it sucks that it died so soon. Hopefully this post can inject some new life into it, since I think this thread has potential to be a really good one if done right.

Hi, this doesn't really apply much to this specific framework but I think its a good talking point so I'm gonna hijack this thread for a second.

I really dislike how a lot of players think about overall team speed when building teams, especially when they make offense. I've seen and heard a lot of nu players say things like "that team seems really slow" or "you absolutely need something as fast as [insert base 110 or 115 mon] so you don't just auto lose to it". I think a lot of players really buy into that mindset because from a balance players point of view (or in some cases a mediocre offense player) it can make sense, if you cant outpace something its always going to be hitting you first and revenging your fast frail mons or at the very least forcing them out and whittling your bulkier mons.

I think these 4 teams you've built accurately represent an alternative way of thinking about dealing with fast threats: using strong wallbreakers, priority, and a choice scarf user together in order to deal with faster offensive threats.

I guess what I'm getting at here is, don't be afraid to try new things and leave yourself open to a threat or two when buildng. You don't have to have a check or counter to everything on paper, sometimes doing it in practice is much simpler. Get out there and try new things guys, and if you havent tried building this priority based style of offense, give it a shot!

edit: I have a few cool zard teams that fit your framework decently evan, so I'll try and drop them when i get the chance

 

[Machineae]

In response to what you said Kiyo I think the big reason for that problem is a lot of people have trouble seeing past a few things such as stat numbers and typing. I have problems w/ it as do plenty of new people. On paper your team may be great and following an ideal situation in your head it works out but it never works out realistically. Often there's no synergy besides "This poke has high def it's my wall, that's fast with strong SpA it's part of my offense core. I'll kill x mon with this one and defend against this with so and so." Why that happens could be because a lack of experience or general problems with how the game is viewed by the individual. Sometimes people who are new wanna get good immediately, so you go on the forums or the teambuilding lab and find a team or have one made by someone who has a good amount of experience w/ the tier and they use that team. They win a bit, lose a bit but overall its positive. Then they want a new team so they repeat the process. They start to notice some similarities "oh man that Pyroar is strong, MDino is bulky as fuck, without x I lose to y" and that's IMO where people start viewing things wrong. They only see hard rules when its pokemon is a game of two individuals with two different ways of looking at a battle. Same thing w/ the creative moveset or core thread. I've seen people say they practically got their entire team from those threads.

idk probably wrong but felt it was appropriate