Metagame np: NU Stage 15 - The Climb | Baton Pass Banned

Take Azelfie

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Trev is a pretty interesting Pokemon. In my I think the possibility of Colbur + Harvest could be a pretty decent option since it can still be used as a defensive pivot to Shiftry and other Knock users. This allows Trevenant spread more Will-o-Wisp than Gourgeist. Trevanant also has an actual offensive movepool letting it lure stuff on defensive with EQ and Rock Slide. CB sets are also gonna be fun launching heavy Wood Hammers can be a pain to switch into and it has Shadow Claw and Earthquake as well (although Shadow Claws only real merit would probably be in dittos and against the uncommon Gourgeist) You could use Trick in the last slot or Rest in tandem of Natural Cure to make a quick recovery on something you scare out. This would probably be good on that one KangaSpikes team that has CB Gourgeist (if it's still legal)
 

Punchshroom

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Trev is a pretty interesting Pokemon. In my I think the possibility of Colbur + Harvest could be a pretty decent option since it can still be used as a defensive pivot to Shiftry and other Knock users. This allows Trevenant spread more Will-o-Wisp than Gourgeist. Trevanant also has an actual offensive movepool letting it lure stuff on defensive with EQ and Rock Slide.
Lol you're not responding a Shiftry with Trevenant.

The problem with Colbur Harvest Trevenant is that it has neither the reliable recovery or even the bulk to properly make use of this, and handles very few Pokemon in general. You'd be better off with Colbur Harvest Exeggutor, and even Colbur Gourgeist-XL still takes the intended hits better anyway while walling additional Pokemon. Colbur Harvest also requires Trevenant to substantially invest in Defensie, which undermines its offensive coverage options. However, a possible niche for non-CB variants of Trevenant could be Lum Berry + Harvest, which gives Trevenant reliable recovery while retaining its ability to absorb status ailments. This set also takes on mons such as Musharna and Xatu much better than Exeggutor can, plus the fact that this Trevenant isn't designed to resist disgustingly strong hits means it can invest more into power and make better use of its offensive movepool.
 

Abejas

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Given that the drops didn't directly affect Jynx's viability, what are people's current opinions on a Jynx's suspect test?
lol.

Tho seriously jynx is a huge threat in this current metagame especially the sub np set. It can just destroy teams that dont carry a decent ice resist and even then most ice resist are 2hko'd or OHKO'd by its secondary stab move being psyshock. The only thing that keeps it from being broken is its poor defense stat, not having the best speed tier and being very vulnerable to pursuit. It can also run several different sets like sash lovely kiss, sub nasty plot(which I think is the most difficult one to face) and even scarf is a pretty good revenge killer and late game cleaner. I can definitely see jynx being suspected but I dont think its really ban worthy.
 

yogi

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I just thought i'd add to allsta(a)r's post a little, whilst we are on the topic of jynx.

I find it kind of centralising in that either slow teams (stall or semi-stall) have to have bronzor or metang to counter it or faster teams (once which set it's running has been scouted or guessed on preview) have to have a faster mon that can kill it, else it'll almost certainly 6-0/sweep when it gets the chance. Given access to a sleep move not blocked by goggles or a grass type is big, along with being able to outright beat any vital spirit user we have (bar vig and I guess hypno) is also what puts serious pressure on players when building. The decline in physical skunk has also somewhat impacted it, because it's one of the few, if not the only, viable user of pursuit in the tier; meaning that it can usually get out free, not to mention if it's running sub it beats skunk regardless. I am certainly on board for a suspect, and at this point in time id probably lean towards ban too.

(Heil our savour, LORD BRONZOR!)
 
I personally think a Jynx suspect is over kill. If you're running a sash set then you have to play the hazard control game extremely well to the point where you almost have to run Xatu which adds horrible type synergy, if you run choiced sets it's a heavy prediction game that can be punished hard by things like Skuntank or Hariyama if you end up guessing wrong. It's vulnerable to every prioirty in the game due to it's bad defensive typing and little to no physical bulk.
It's fast but not too fast to where offensive teams struggle and it can only ever find it itself switching into water moves, so it's quite literally a glass cannon that you either have to double into or fodder something to get in.

Stall teams do struggle to deal with it it and balanced teams that lack prioirty can also have issues, but not to the point where it needs a suspect.

It's an extremely strong Pokemon in NU but it doesn't fit on a lot of teams. It's not slashable, it has clear weaknesses, and you have to use it smartly in order for it to work which makes it a high risk high reward Pokemon. I think a suspect is a bit over kill.
 
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Blast

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I really don't think it's that much of an issue that stall has to run Bronzor to beat Jynx. Bronzor's a god great Pokemon on stall anyway, and checks a truckload of Pokemon outside of just Jynx, so it would still be great even if Jynx was banned. Stall has always had to stick to relatively obscure Pokemon to keep certain threats in check (see Sliggoo, Altaria, Cryogonal, etc), and it's always been a usable-but-never-particularly-good style anyway.

If you're asking me, I think the most noteworthy aspect about Jynx is its effect on balance teams, but I'm not convinced that necessarily makes it unhealthy. I personally think it's healthy for dominant playstyles like balance to have threats to keep them on their toes. For example, Swellow and Barbaracle perform extremely well against offense and force teams to run fairly specific checks, but I certainly wouldn't call either of those broken or unhealthy. The main difference is that Jynx is considerably more effective against a wider array of playstyles, which a case can possibly be made for, but similarly I don't believe that every good wallbreaker has to be highly matchup-based.

So I'm not quite convinced a test is necessary but I'm also not totally set in that opinion either, further thoughts could certainly sway my opinion the other way.
 

Shadestep

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re:

Jynx doesn't warrant a suspect in my opinion. It's obviously a very good mon, yeah, but there are plenty of ways to deal with it. It has plenty checks and counters that aren't only used on certain teams to deal with Jynx (say Bronzor or Metang). A lot of Pokemon can easily check Jynx by either: being bulky enough to take it on the majority of its sets: Gastrodon, defensive Mesprit, and Mega Audino. Faster Pokemon such as Scyther, Tauros and Pyroar are able to revenge it easily, Swellow and Pyroar having a great chance to revenge Jynx while it's behind a Substitute.
252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jynx: 204-240 (75.2 - 88.5%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jynx: 198-234 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Of Course, switching in Pyroar, Swellow, or any other of the threats noted before into Jynx isn't risk free, but figuring out Jynx's set is often not the hardest thing to do. Especially Scarf is very obvious most of the time, from team preview. Scouting Jynx's set may cause some trouble but a lot of fast threats like Tauros and evio Scyther can live any live from Scarf Jynx anyways and are able to RK it.

Another big flaw of Jynx is its weakness to Pursuit, obviously. Skuntank is super common right now and it can take two non-boosted Ice Beams, as well as always being forced into a 50/50 with physical Lum Skuntank. (btw don't run any other item than Lum on physical skunk lol). Jynx has to rely mostly on Sleep Turns to get out of a Skuntank exchange alive and relying on an inaccurate move is always fun as we know.

Anyways, if there would be a Jynx suspect it would have to wait for another month since OLT qualification stage is still going on.. :x
 

So Miltank is an interesting mon in the meta right now. I've been playing around with Thick Fat sets as a way to deal with Jynx and it works out really well given most Jynx sets have started to drop Focus Blast. Both Ice Beam and Psyshock are possible 5HKOs which means that Miltank can come in and either absorb sleep and be bulky enough to power through the sleep or just straight wall it if you've already sleep foddered off something. Thick fat is also extremely helpful for Magmortar as Fire Blast now turns into a 4% chance to 3HKO. And because you don't change any of the EVs, you still are able to wall Tauros and Archeops like normal.

So now Miltank has the ability to wall out Tauros, Archeops, Kangskan, Psyshock Mesprit, Jynx and AV Magmortar/ Shiftry and Lilligant depending on which ability you go for which makes Miltank a very flexible pick right now for balanced teams and is something that's really flying under the radar.

Miltank @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat/ Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss/ Body Slam
- Thunder Wave/ Earthquake
- Milk Drink


252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Miltank: 91-108 (23 - 27.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Jynx Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Miltank: 84-100 (21.3 - 25.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Miltank: 129-153 (32.7 - 38.8%) -- 4.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Miltank: 133-157 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- 29.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Miltank: 146-173 (37 - 43.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Archeops Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Miltank: 135-159 (34.2 - 40.3%) -- 40.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Miltank: 147-174 (37.3 - 44.1%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Bonus Calc:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aurorus Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Miltank: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery


EDIT: s/o to Shane and his LO rocks set
 
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shiloh

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hello im back again and wanna talk about my favorite thing in the world baton pass :toast:

some of you maybe remember that i was one of the people that pushed for a speed pass suspect and was the first person to really spam chicken pass teams in tours / pass them around for things like the suspect ladder. after it was banned i assumed that hey, the tier can be healthy with such a skilless strat gone, but there are still a few problems.

there have been a few posts of things like cosmic power pass to stored power xatu / shell armor mons, and even things like nasty pass being brought to tour games again, and all this shows me is how stupid the move baton pass is. no matter how many times its been nerfed its just come back a little weaker, but still a very cheap and unviable strategy. the idea of passing boosts to something that shouldnt have them is just something that isnt meant to happen which is why i'm calling for the council to hold a council vote for the move itself, basically banning baton pass.

lets go over some replays why dont we:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-nu-193322 - nu open semifinals game, sand1234 vs sacri'. sand decided to bring a team that he had been using on ladder which consisted of a mr.mime set i believe Blast came up with. this replay shows how easy it is for mr.mime to get up boosts and then pass them to xatu creating an amazing win condition that can only really lose to crits.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-439186121 - just a game of my vs sand from the ladder, but shows how the team can function well vs an offensive build as well due to neat techs like salac xatu.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-432547197 - more of a joke build, but it really just shows how easy this strategy is to win with even if it isnt passed to a mon like xatu there is still a similar effect that most teams can't deal with.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-nu-195542 - it doesnt even have to be something like mr.mime, as shown by flcl a togepi can easily pass nasty plots of to teammates and put huge amounts of pressure on teams that make most matchups difficult to overcome.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-nu-195431 - just showing how quickly this can start to just put huge dents in opposing teams that are hard to come back from for most teams and players.

if i had more time i would find more replays, but i know players like Shaneghoul have been using cosmic pass as well and can comment on it, but i really just want to see this broken move gone for good without any clauses. also please dont put this to another public test like there was before with speedpass, this is a very straightforward ban and if anyone in the community has a problem with it i would love to see discussion in this thread
 
can confirm, bp is busted. here's a bp team to infest the ladder with:




Lapras @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 168 HP / 88 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
- Waterfall
- Zen Headbutt

Xatu @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Signal Beam

Lopunny @ Leftovers
Ability: Cute Charm
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Baton Pass
- Cosmic Power
- Substitute
- Encore

Archeops @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Taunt
- Endeavor
- Stealth Rock

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Combusken @ Eviolite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Sky Uppercut


you're welcome NLT players n_n
 
I have been experimenting with similar sets ever since speed pass got banned and just wanted to chime in really quickly.

Personally, I think BP is fine, it's the stat boosts that make the move problematic. Pokemon like Musharna, Mawile, heck, even Flareon can generate a lot of momentum if you correctly predict a switch from your opponent, without really offering any advantages over moves like U-Turn. To make things worse, BP can transfer status effects like Confusion or Leech Seed to the receiver, making it even more risky to click in certain situations.

That being said, NU is not really well equipped to deal with any sort of stat passing in my opinion. Due to the nature of the tier, fatter teams are a very common sight on the ladder and those give plenty of setup opportunities for the likes of Lopunny (who can run highly costumizable sets) or even Mush herself (who is bulky enough to set up on a great portion of the tier). We're not exactly blessed with strong, unconditional priority users who might be able to take advantage of the set up mon being weakened by a teammate, and only few relevant pokemon can learn both learn Encore and make space for it on their moveset. This adds up to a scenario where it basically comes down to whether or not the BP user has time to set up one of his relevant stat boosts, which isn't too hard for reasons I have mentioned earlier. Not only does this heavily impact the way teams can be built, but it also makes for very one-dimensional games in which the opponent of the BP user has to be completely on point with his predictions, because one or two free turns usually mean the game's over.

TL;DR:
Baton pass is fine on it's own,

it's really more that passing stats should be banned.
 
hello im back again and wanna talk about my favorite thing in the world assist boomburst :toast:

some of you maybe remember that i was one of the people that pushed for an assist suspect back when furret was around and was the first person to really spam assist bp teams in room tours / pass them around for things like the ladder. after it wasn't used anymore i assumed that hey, the tier can be healthy with such a skilless strat gone, but there are still a few problems.

there have been a few posts of things like assist boomburst teams being brought to tour games again, and all this shows me is how stupid the moves assist + boomburst is. no matter how many times its been ignored its just come back, and is still a very cheap and unviable strategy. the idea of passing boomburst to something that shouldnt have it is just something that isnt meant to happen which is why i'm calling for the council to hold a council vote for the moves themselves, basically banning assist + boomburst.

lets go over some replays why dont we:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-442637556 - random test game, sir kay vs disjunction. disjunction decided to bring a team that he had been using on ladder which consisted of 6 assist boomburst mons. this replay shows how devastating this playstyle can be against the most impervious of stalls, a team archetype normally considered a bad matchup.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-nu-194220 - just a game of mine vs shaneghoul from the battle of the week, but shows how the team can function well vs an offensive build as well as how it's been taking over the tournament scene as of late.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-442160373 - this replay really just shows how easy this strategy is to win with even if its faced up against a mon which is immune to normal type attacks

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-445299569 - it doesnt even have to be boomburst, as shown by shadestep a dig persian can easily remove rock / steel types for its teammates and put huge amounts of pressure on teams that make most matchups difficult to overcome.

if i had more time i would find more replays, but i know players like Shadestep have been using it well and can comment on it, but i really just want to see these broken moves gone for good without any clauses. also please dont put this to a public test like there was before with speedpass, this is a very straightforward ban and if anyone in the community has a problem with it i would love to see discussion in this thread
 

Josh

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um i mean im not against banning bpass or passing stats but xatu might be the problem, lol. its the prime abuser of all of this shit, mostly because it cant be phazed/taunted/statused for the most part. theres no receiver anywhere near its level. i get people want to save it because its helpful and a good addition to the metagame otherwise, but its sort of in the same boat as pu machoke. if teams without xatu showed relative consistency i might change my opinion but i haven't seen any. im not good at nu so if this is dumb tell me why.
 

erisia

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hello im back again and wanna talk about my favorite thing in the world dank memes

Nah but seriously I don't think I'd mind if Baton Pass was banned. In terms of good dry passers we have Musharna, Floatzel, and a bunch of PU mons. Even if we did straight up ban the move I think for the most part NU would be unscathed. Sub Pass is also pretty powerful on its own but isn't really banworthy, so I'll miss that if Baton Pass goes.

However, tbh I think this is more of a general policy decision than something specific to NU. I guess Xatu is a pretty annoying receiver but other tiers have similar things like Espeon. I get that counterplay is annoying since you basically have to weaken your matchup against other teams by running Haze or Clear Smog over Toxic on some mons, but this sounds more like a tournament tech than a reason for banning a move in general. If you ladder then Baton Pass won't have a huge general impact on your ELO or similar because it's not common enough to warrant preparing for. Heck when we did the Busken Pass suspect we hardly even saw Busken Pass.

I also don't like the idea of following up a suspect test with a council vote; if we were going to do that we should have done it with Busken Pass (or instead of Busken Pass) imo.

Might edit with more thoughts later.
 

quziel

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Well, Quag's back, so that means stall is a lot happier than it previously was, as it now has a much better stop to major threats such as rhydon, malamar, and samurott. In terms of particularly nice pairings, the rising threat Clefairy really appreciates its, as it is no longer as vulnerable to some setup mons, while sponging status for quaggy.

In general, we can expect stall to be significantly stronger than before, as it gained one of its major pieces back, along with some major mons rising significantly in viability, so ladder will be able to get a lot more diverse.
 
[18:30:05] @eternally:another mon for sub mantine to feast on, im happy


Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Encore

Depending on the team, mainly mentioning stall here, you can forgo toxic because other team members may carry it. Also let's be realistic you're probably scald burning your target anyway.

Also, just to throw a neat set i used to run back when Quag was here:


Archeops
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Grass]

252 Atk Archeops Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 153-180 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Archeops Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 272-320 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also you can probably go earth power or heat wave > eq to nuke steelix/ferroseed if you like that.

Anyway just wanted to post because im pumped that Quag is back, as most ppl know im one of those ppl who use stall occasionally. As much as i like Gastro, it loses to SD Scyther/Samurott unless you run clear smog + toxic but that means giving up ground stab and idk if im in the minority but i dont like doing that. A decent amount of stall teams nowadays choose to run Bronzor, and while that covers normal/flying types, it doesnt like being u-turned on by Scyther so having Quag as a partner to check it is nice.

tl;dr yay we have Quag again
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned deucer.
Of the 3 new mons only quagsire looks like it might shake things up a little : /

It has haze/yawn for stored power so it might mess with passing, but maybe I'm to low to have seen how good it gets?
 

erisia

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Oh cool Quagsire's back. Addendum to my BP post; idk how common Quagsire is gonna be outside of stall teams due to Gastrodon being a thing, but it stops a ton of receivers that don't have Grass-type coverage, Freeze Dry, or Stored Power (so everything on Advantage's team except for Xatu) so that's a thing I guess.
 

Disjunction

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So with the end of ORAS in sight, I put together a bit of a resource for myself to use that I figured other people could get a lot of use out of.

http://pastebin.com/17GJgHmy

This is more or less a Pokedex / Compendium of every set I would personally be interested in ever using in the current NU meta. Please note that a lot of these sets are extremely eccentric and are not fit for every team, but it's a comprehensive list for a reason. While I urge you guys to have fun, I'm also going to tell you to use good judgment while building and know what you're getting yourself into by using some of these. Additionally, I'd like to mention there are a couple of sets that are missing from here (like defensive mawile and bulky archeops) that I absolutely hate. It's a resource I developed mostly for myself, so if I can't see myself using it then it's more than likely not on the list. Feel free to add anything you want to make the list your own!

Also note that a lot of these sets have multiple options for coverage. Coverage options like Aqua Tail on Arbok or Frost Breath on Regice can be swapped in and out depending on the team. This list is not meant to say "this setup for this Pokemon is the most optimal," it's meant as a reliable database to make teambuilding easier.

Punchshroom and Yogibears already did a good bit of work on this, but if you see any glaring problems like mismatched moves, incorrect evs, or anything missing, please let me know via vm and I can get it fixed up.

Hope it helps!

EDIT: Oh, if you want to add this to your teambuilder, copy the text from the pastebin and paste it in the "Backup / Restore all Teams" button in the teambuilder above the first team in that box. It'll add the folder and everything. Just don't paste it overtop the already existing teams or you'll delete everything lol.

EDIT 2: Put in an updated version with changes suggested by Evan. Blast Earth and Take Azelfie. Appreciate it dudes :)
 
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Thats pretty sick. I remember making the same sort of thing for the Pokemon Online NU forum back in BW lol, they had a good box system though.

Can anyone inform me what happens when a new generation comes out? I've conveniently gone MIA everytime a new gen comes out. How do we decide initially what goes where? Obviously theres a few mons that are NU or lower that are getting new forms so I'm curious what will be done and a quick search has brought me no results. Also is there anything special about the drops just before a new gen or is that just like normal? (Assuming we're getting one in a few weeks)
 

yogi

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Machineae The pokemon will all start in OU (fully evolved that is) and will be tried out there while the tier establishes itself, they'll then drop down to UU if they fail to get enough usage, then RU, then NU. We'll probably see alpha at April (and thatd most likely be the earliest). I'm not sure about NFE mons however.
 

boltsandbombers

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Last tiering update of the generation is here, and unfortunately nothing dropped to NU.
Combusken, Quagsire, and Musharna all dropped below the cutoff (albeit only the first two have officially dropped to PU), so feel free to discuss these drops as well as the usage stats here as the days of ORAS wind down.
Here are the top 15 used mons from the last 3 month shift:
Code:
Combined usage for NU
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1    | Mesprit            | 24.478% |
| 2    | Hitmonchan         | 19.878% |
| 3    | Xatu               | 17.560% |
| 4    | Lanturn            | 17.524% |
| 5    | Liepard            | 15.490% |
| 6    | Skuntank           | 15.136% |
| 7    | Steelix            | 14.728% |
| 8    | Hariyama           | 13.927% |
| 9    | Magmortar          | 13.333% |
| 10   | Garbodor           | 13.206% |
| 11   | Rhydon             | 12.658% |
| 12   | Scyther            | 12.340% |
| 13   | Tauros             | 12.311% |
| 14   | Vileplume          | 12.027% |
| 15   | Audino-Mega        | 11.620% |
Mesprit sitting at #1 again isnt too surprising but it's interesting to see Hitmonchan nearly at 20% usage.
 

Disjunction

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Another thing that's super interesting is seeing both of the tier's strongest Dark-types, Liepard and Skuntank, next to each other at #5 and #6. In an attempt to find ways to cope with the strong Psychic-types in the tier, I think the community has become more and more aware of the invaluable strengths Pursuit trapping has to offer. Much like other tiers, we're starting to discover the strengths of trapping in how it allows you to pick and choose what you want to face. Pursuit is no Arena Trap or Shadow Tag, but it certainly puts a lot of pressure on the opponent to make the correct play against Liepard / Skuntank in order to prevent themselves from losing a valuable check or spinblocker. And while this has always been true, I believe the recent success CB Liepard has found (thanks to that Teddeh team giving it a lot of credibility), the rise of Tauros and Garbodor spikes stack making bulky Ghosts more valuable as combined Tauros checks and spinblockers, and the Psychics gaining popularity in general all have formed a metagame where Pursuit thrives to its fullest.

We haven't seen the likes of a Pursuit-heavy tier since Sneasel was around, and I think it'll be especially interesting to see how this trend develops from here.

e: just had a game against stall showcasing Pursuit's strengths against more than just offense
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-473087035
 
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