Metagame np: DOU Stage 0 - Tale as Old as Time | Magearna and Zygarde Quickbanned | Eevium Z Quickbanned

Checkmater

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Trick Room? Let's chat about Trick Room...
TR literally always defines the meta. Last gen we saw how an introduction of stronger fullroom archetypes (cough no cress cough) with stronger teams and semiroom's strength led to a generally "balanced offense" meta. So I'm going to talk about three main talking points

  • What options and tools does TR have in the current meta?
  • What do current TR teams look like?
  • In what way does TR impact teambuilding?
Keep in mind this is mainly focused on my own experiences testing+laddering

New options, changes from last gen:
-Marowak, Torkoal, Tapu Bulu are all strong attackers
-Necrozma, Z-move TR + Hypno Zong, Mimikyu, Nihilego as setters
Fake out is no longer the end all be all for TR: Psychic Terrain kind've ruins that and heavy kang nerfs means it's a balance kinda mon instead of a HO TR kinda mon
As a sidenote, scrafty is kind've bad. It's primary function was to fuck up kangaskhan, which isn't as necessary, and its coverage is 100% ass vs fairies

Amoonguss is pretty shrug-status atm, I haven't seen very much of it and it sucks vs eterrain.
Salamence also isn't very much of a worry for TR, its generally strong for its flying coverage but its not like TR really cares about neutral coverage that hits everything, moreso SE coverage that fucks up your setters

The meta is VERY special-heavy

note that there are several new sets that you can try out in gen 7 that are very strong for adapting to the meta

Current TR teams:
Mostly, I've been seeing a lot of semiroom, with heavy focus on fire-spam. The best setters are Hoopa-U, Bronzong, Jirachi, Oranguru, and Necrozma.

That said, let's plug a team + some replays!

Hoopa-Unbound @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Magician
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Def / 120 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hyperspace Fury
- Hyperspace Hole
- Trick Room
- Protect

Aegislash @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 132 SpD / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Solar Beam
- Protect

Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 92 HP / 148 Atk / 16 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

Shaymin-Sky @ Focus Sash
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seed Flare
- Air Slash
- Earth Power
- Protect

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Protect


This is a team I built together with qsns and passed to MajorBowman, and its done quite well
Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankdoublesou-498409185
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankdoublesou-502072767
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankdoublesou-498373495

If you look through other replays, such as me vs Nido g3, or me vs Knzo for the entire set, Fire-types and Steel-types are pretty integral to both Full TR and semiTR

In what way does TR impact teambuilding?
I'd argue that TR is a very strong force keeping TapuLele+Deo spam down. I've noticed this pretty strongly, as in say I bring Hoopa-U semiroom against Tapu Lele + Deo. I just need to find a moment when Lele isn't out, set TR and then get 6 KOs. The nature of having 2 psychics that both have basically no resists along with the generally offensive nature of those teams means I just get to murder things as my opp won't have dark resists.

It's also very strong against rain, as Zard naturally beats rain while rain can't really stop the setters from setting up and then destroying things. At the same time, pelipper's more frail nature as compared to toed means easier time sweeping things off the floor.


Hope that was informative and helpful to anyone trying to get a pulse on building TR in gen 7! Look out for the frameworks thread coming soon, and remember that this post is most definitely not a "you must build this way!" Find ways to break the guidelines set forth in this post in meaningful ways!
 
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speaking of TR

I wanted to specifically talk about Hoopa-U, something with a lot of potential in a metagame dominated by fast, somewhat frail special attackers. While last gen, teams were still struggling for switchins to Hoopa-U, Pokemon such as Scrafty, Azumarill (which is still nuts) and Sylveon kept it from mauling teams on preview. The nerf to Kangaskhan and the less frequent usage of its checks breath new life into what I believe is a top ranked threat in DOU atm.

specifically:

Hoopa-Unbound @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Magician
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hyperspace Fury
- Hyperspace Hole
- Trick Room
- Protect


this is the set that I've been using extensively w/ checkmater and it feels extremely strong atm. The main draw to Sitrus as the item is, with minimal support such as Intimidate, being able to reliably set up Trick Room even against a number of double-targets, taking under 60% from extremely powerful attacks such as Landorus I Earth Power. Another (smaller) benefit is being able to actively use Magician to mess w/ the opponent's items, often stealing a second Sitrus Berry or Life Orb for more power under Trick Room. Nothing popular besides the bulkier Tapus enjoy taking a max attack Hyperspace Fury, letting it be self sufficient as both an attacker and a support mon.

Other sets such as a faster Life Orb Gunk Shot and Scarf are definitely viable depending on your team composition and what you're aiming to target; I highly suggest giving Hoopa-U a shot.
 
I keep looking at Necrozma as a TR-setter, since it is surprisingly resilient.

252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Black Hole Eclipse (100 BP) vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 312-369 (84.3 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Same BP as Hyperspace Fury. That's minimum investment to avoid a OHKO. But you have a lot to invest in defense. Bisharp Sucker Punches are even less.

252+ SpA Hoopa-Unbound Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma: 195-229 (58.2 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Same base Special Attack as Mega Gengar, so it'd take as much from that too. Aegislash is even lower. Could run a Weakness Policy set to punish these attempts to break it, Mental Herb to negate Taunt, or just your own Life Orb or something.

Its wonky-ass movepool still has just enough to make its huge STAB Psychics work, even if Brick Break as an anti-Bisharp/Heatran move is kinda lol.
 
I think that because of how fake out was nerfed and redirection folds in the face of a strong fire, we are going to see a trend towards the incredibly builky TR setters that can stomach double targets like necrozma and porygon over the relatively frailer options like reuiniclus.
 
I keep looking at Necrozma as a TR-setter, since it is surprisingly resilient.

252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Black Hole Eclipse (100 BP) vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 312-369 (84.3 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Same BP as Hyperspace Fury. That's minimum investment to avoid a OHKO. But you have a lot to invest in defense. Bisharp Sucker Punches are even less.

252+ SpA Hoopa-Unbound Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma: 195-229 (58.2 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Same base Special Attack as Mega Gengar, so it'd take as much from that too. Aegislash is even lower. Could run a Weakness Policy set to punish these attempts to break it, Mental Herb to negate Taunt, or just your own Life Orb or something.

Its wonky-ass movepool still has just enough to make its huge STAB Psychics work, even if Brick Break as an anti-Bisharp/Heatran move is kinda lol.
Sorry, but why is Black Hole Eclipse 100 BP? If using it with Hyperspace Fury, the BP is 180. If using with Dark Pulse or Knock Off, the BP would be 160 (DP) or 120 (KO). Here's the actual calc:

252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Black Hole Eclipse (180) vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Filter Necrozma: 559-661 (151 - 178.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Hoopa-Unbound Black Hole Eclipse (160) vs. 140 HP / 0 SpD Filter Necrozma: 384-454 (103.7 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Black Hole Eclipse (120) vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Filter Necrozma: 373-441 (100.8 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Here's with max investment:
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Black Hole Eclipse (180) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Filter Necrozma: 445-523 (111.8 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Hoopa-Unbound Black Hole Eclipse (160) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Necrozma: 459-541 (115.3 - 135.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Black Hole Eclipse (120) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Filter Necrozma: 297-351 (74.6 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I think there are better comparisons to show how bulky Necrozma really is, such as its ability to live a Crunch from a Tyranitar at +2 (from Weakness Policy). With Max HP and defense investments (to run a CM set, I believe).

If you meant to say Hyperspace Fury instead of Black Hole Eclipse, oops.
 
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I've been using zygarde as a dragon dancer with some success on the ladder, but does anyone have an idea of what item I should run with ddancer? I've been using groudium z but there may be a better option.
 

Pocket

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Leftovers is a good option with Substitute. Other options include Soft Sand, Weakness Policy, Sitrus Berry, Yache Berry, & Roseli Berry.

Just noting some observations of the common cores I've been picking up.

  1. Mega Mence - DD Zygarde - Jirachi: Flying + Ground are great offensive combo, and they both benefit from Jirachi
  2. Mega Mence - Excadrill - TTar: Same as above, except sand option
  3. Mega Mence - Azumarill - Jirachi - Tapu Koko/Bulu: frania & KyleCole core - how can you go wrong, haha
  4. Tapu Lele - Charizard Y - Deoxys-A: Psychic + Fire spam; you may often see Heatran on this team, too
  5. Politoed/Pelipper - Kingdra - Tapu Lele / Tapu Koko - Mega Gross / Mega Gar: Most rain variants run this type of build

It would be interesting to see if these trends will be observed in SPL or not. Feel free to post meta trends you have been seeing :)
 

Paraplegic

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I've been using zygarde as a dragon dancer with some success on the ladder, but does anyone have an idea of what item I should run with ddancer? I've been using groudium z but there may be a better option.
My favorite Zygarde set is personally:
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Thousand Arrows
- Protect

The set is simple yet so effective. Since it gets a way just fine with mono attacking coverage due to thousand arrows being such a good move, I personally really like substitute on it. With follow me support(rachi has such good synergy with this so really easy to fit on a team), Zygarde can set up a substitute and then start dding, and then when Jirachi finally goes down your opponent will have to deal with a boosted snake behind a sub, so more often then not thats kinda just game. Even when you dont have a follow me-er on the field, sub is still useful due to it providing some setup opportunities you otherwise wouldnt get.
 
Are 252 speed EVs necessary on Zygarde? Is it better to have the extra speed for scarfers and the mirror or the extra bulk from leftover EVs that might let you live an extra hit? I think that the bulk is more useful, but I'm curious what other people think. This goes for almost every setup sweeper in the tier, actually.
 
Are 252 speed EVs necessary on Zygarde? Is it better to have the extra speed for scarfers and the mirror or the extra bulk from leftover EVs that might let you live an extra hit? I think that the bulk is more useful, but I'm curious what other people think. This goes for almost every setup sweeper in the tier, actually.
I've run enough EV's to hit 264 speed, which I think is like 152 or something, as that allows you to outspeed Mega Gengar and Tapu Koko at +1
 
how good do you guys think volcarona is? I feel like it is sneaky good tier 1.5 at least. With the extremely notable exception of mega mence, gen 7 couldnt have been kinder to it.
 

GenOne

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how good do you guys think volcarona is? I feel like it is sneaky good tier 1.5 at least. With the extremely notable exception of mega mence, gen 7 couldnt have been kinder to it.
Next to Charizard and Heatran, it's probably one of the best fire types. Its only flaw is it has pretty bad 4mss, but as long as you clear its threats it can become really threatening. The fact that the meta is so specially-biased rn also works in Volcarona's favour.
 
After I introduced the Volcarona + Milotic core, a lot of people began to use it, too. It's really neat because Salamence-Mega and Landorus-T can't switch onto them, and if they don't act fast, then Volcarona will continue to use Quiver Dance, thus guaranteeing a win con. An experienced player should also know that they should add mons that can eliminate the core's "walls". Such examples include Landorus-T and Tapu Koko to eliminate Fire-types and Water-types, respectively. And for the final touch, there shouldn't be any surprise that Aegislash or Jirachi is siding with the core as well, thus leaving the Mega slot for you to decide. The fact that Landorus-T's Rock Slide (-1; Jolly) can't OHKO Volcarona is also a big deal. Not to mention, Volcarona's Inferno Overdrive is insanely powerful and even more powerful after a Quiver Dance.

Example Team:


So... is Volcarona good? Yeah... I went 24-0 with it until Croven stopped the streak.
 
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After some discussion during some Seasonal matches with non-other than THE KYLECOLE I thought it might be worth discussing one of the few remaining powerful Mega Evolutions from Gen 6, Charizard Y.

Sun has gained popularity this generation in a few different ways. The first and probably most popular variant of Charizard teams atm is the Charizard+Tapu Lele/Deoxys-A type team that typically use a faster Charizard and often use Tailwind at some point on the team. One of the original users of this build was Memoric but was also used by Majorbowman in this first week of SPL. Another way that Charizard has been used is on Trick Room or Semi Trick Room teams, like the team Stax used in SPL week 1 and again in the most recent round of Winter Seasonals. Pairing Charizard with Deoxys or Hoopa-U is nothing new though as those teams, while not as popular, certainly received usage in ORAS as well as the popular CharY + Cress teams at the end of the metagame. Some new developments in Charizard are a seemingly freed up moveslot, either perceived or real, for moves such as Tailwind. Probably first pioneered this gen by certain shadowy figures of the community and then later stolen by myself and Majorbowman for the aforementioned team. Another common new move for Charizard-Y is Hidden Power Ice, notably used by the now famous CharY semiroom team from Checkmater and Qsns to catch the common Mega Salamence or even Landorus-T before its able to KO Charizard, usually on a switch or with speed control in effect.

Some other positive trends for Char Y are the decline of Mega Kangaskhan, which can free up EVs on Charizard for more SpAtk or Speed, and even the popularity of more Grass-types that Charizard typically beats such as Shaymin-Sky or Tapu Bulu. While a lot of this community agrees that Charizard Y I guess I'm posting to spark a discussion outside the circlejerk for Charizard Y that has taken place in the first week of SPL (being on 3/6 teams, small sample size but I believe indicative of the community opinion of Char Y). I'll leave the thread with the questions of is Char Y being overhyped right now or is it actually really good? Is Tyranitar a good meme or an actual good pokemon that will hold up after a potential wave of Char Y usage expires and what's next for the metagame as a whole or just what's next for a new/adapted Char Y build?
 
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GenOne

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After some discussion during some Seasonal matches with non-other than THE KYLECOLE I thought it might be worth discussing one of the few remaining powerful Mega Evolutions from Gen 6, Charizard Y.

Sun has gained popularity this generation in a few different ways. The first and probably most popular variant of Charizard teams atm is the Charizard+Tapu Lele/Deoxys-A type team that typically use a faster Charizard and often use Tailwind at some point on the team. One of the original users of this build was Memoric but was also used by Majorbowman in this first week of SPL. Another way that Charizard has been used is on Trick Room or Semi Trick Room teams, like the team Stax used in SPL week 1 and again in the most recent round of Winter Seasonals. Pairing Charizard with Deoxys or Hoopa-U is nothing new though as those teams, while not as popular, certainly received usage in ORAS as well as the popular CharY + Cress teams at the end of the metagame. Some new developments in Charizard are a seemingly freed up moveslot, either perceived or real, for moves such as Tailwind. Probably first pioneered this gen by certain shadowy figures of the community and then later stolen by myself and Majorbowman for the aforementioned team. Another common new move for Charizard-Y is Hidden Power Ice, notably used by the now famous CharY semiroom team from Checkmater and Qsns, (used here by Finally), to catch the common Mega Salamence or even Landorus-T before its able to KO Charizard, usually on a switch or with speed control in effect.

Some other positive trends for Char Y are the decline of Mega Kangaskhan, which can free up EVs on Charizard for more SpAtk or Speed, and even the popularity of more Grass-types that Charizard typically beats such as Shaymin-Sky or Tapu Bulu. While a lot of this community agrees that Charizard Y I guess I'm posting to spark a discussion outside the circlejerk for Charizard Y that has taken place in the first week of SPL (being on 3/6 teams, small sample size but I believe indicative of the community opinion of Char Y). I'll leave the thread with the questions of is Char Y being overhyped right now or is it actually really good? Is Tyranitar a good meme or an actual good pokemon that will hold up after a potential wave of Char Y usage expires and what's next for the metagame as a whole or just what's next for a new/adapted Char Y build?
I think there's definately pros and cons to Charizard but it's definitely good, if not a top-tier threat in this meta.

My two cents, TL/DR version:
  • A middling speed tier, which makes it versatile and a near-staple on TR builds, but also reliant on speed control and support
  • Useful for keeping other weathers in check, but Rain and Sand teams are often bringing secondary manual setters now while Sun doesn't have any good equivalent setters
  • Bad matchups against a substantial number of common threats
  • One of the best Fire pokemon / answers to bulky steels
  • Not worth overhyping, but definitely a top-tier threat that's here to stay
Charizard's speed tier: a blessing and a curse
With the speed creep we've seen in SM, Charizard's base 100 speed stat puts in kind of a middling position where it wants speed control to shine, either in the form of Trick Room or Tailwind. At the very least it needs its team to support it against faster threats. But at the same time, Charizard and (to a lesser extent) Kang are the only two viable Megas right now that offer that flexibility to work on either fast or slow teams. Given the Kang nerf, Charizard seems like the top-tier choice right now if you want to build semiroom or even fullroom. Salamence, Metagross, and Gengar are all generally too fast to run on Trick Room teams, and I can't think of any other megas besides the five I mentioned above that people are actually using right now. Idk how I feel about running Tailwind directly on Zard right now - I think that's better left to other mons on the team. Aegislash is still a very real (if not buffed) threat in SM, and I can't imagine running just Heat Wave. I guess you could drop Heat Wave in favour of a single-target move, but that also seems sub optimal -- but hey, maybe I just need to get with the times ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sun as a weather: the best weather, but easiest to counter*
*Besides hail, but hail's irrelevant y/y?

I feel like Rain and Sand teams have adapted pretty quickly to the surge of Sun teams being used, and both of those archetypes are beginning to carry secondary, manual weather setters to keep up their momentum. Thundurus gets priority Rain Dance, and can alternatively just outspeed and OHKO Charizard with Gigavolt Havoc if it plays the turn right. Tapu Koko and fast Jirachis can also potentially serve as rain setters. I've seen Volcanion start to find a niche on Sand teams as a secondary Sandstorm setter, since it already resists both Sun and Rain abusers. Sun teams, on the other hand, don't really have any good setters other than Charizard, so opposing weather teams can be pretty adept at forcing Charizard in and out. Then again, sun teams don't necessarily need sun up to function, since Charizard is pretty much a setter and abuser in one package. Rain teams rely on a setter + abuser, and while Tyranitar can stand alone without Excadrill, all it really gets for itself is a SpD boost. I think Charizard teams need to prepare thoroughly for opposing weather to succeed, but Sun archetypes definitely still take a top spot in this meta. At the very least, you're better off running Charizard over no weather at all so you at least have the ability to counter opposing weather teams.

Charizard's checks and counters: some new and familiar faces, a lot of common mons

This is by no means an exhaustive list of Charizard checks, but just to make a point that most teams will already have answers to it without necessarily trying. I think it's safe to say almost every team will have one or more of the following:
  • Landorus: Still exists, but not on ~90% of all teams like he was in ORAS. You can EV to survive a Rock Slide, and Lando typically runs Jolly now to outspeed Deoxys-A so that's working out in Charizard's favour
  • Salamence: Outspeeds and walls Zards that aren't packing HP Ice. Double Edge is a guaranteed 2KHO at +0 and guaranteed OHKO after one Dragon Dance.
  • Tapu Koko: Outspeeds most of the unboosted meta and can swiftly kill Charizard with a terrain-boosted Thunderbolt. Potentially, Koko can also get away with setting Rain Dance, but imo that's better left to Thundurus...which brings me to:
  • Thundurus: Fast variants outspeed Charizard and can kill with Thunder(bolt) or Gigavolt Havoc, and Thundurus also gets priority Rain Dance
  • Rain sweepers: Self explanitory, and I think I made the point above that just running Charizard isn't enough to check rain since it's easy for them to run a second setter.
  • Tyranitar / Sand Teams: Existed in previous metas, but the lack of fighting types in SM makes Tyranitar more appealing now. Inside of Sand, Tyranitar completely walls Charizard and can swiftly kill it with rock moves. Excadrill outruns most of the meta under sand and can easily get a rock slide off on Charizard.
  • Tapu Lele + Deo-A or Metagross: A Deo-A Psycho Boost was traditionally a 2HKO against bulkier Zards, but under Psychic Terrain it's a clean OHKO even against the bulkiest. Similarly Metagross, of all mons, generally wins 1v1 against Charizard when Psychic Terrain is up. A full-health Zard can EV to survive a terrain-boosted Zen Headbutt, but Metagross outspeeds and scores clean OHKOs against the less bulky variants: 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 339-400 (114.1 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Even bulkier Zards are taking a minimum of 80% damage from Metagross on a low roll: 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 224 HP / 144 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 288-339 (81.5 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Lele can also pick off a weakened Charizard, especially if it's scarfed.
  • Heatran: Self-explanatory. I guess you can still carry HP Ground, but that faces competition from single-target Fire moves and HP Ice.
  • Kangaskhan: Still exists, still kind of good, but not really worth EVing around imo.
  • Araquanid: Okay, this guy isn't that common at all. I only mention him because it (along with TTar and Tran) is probably one of the best sun checks under TR. Charizard's fire moves 4HKO Araquanid on a good day, meanwhile an Araquanid Hydro Vortex OHKOs even bulky Zards through sun, and an item-boosted Liquidation can still pick off less bulky or weakened Zards.
Despite its drawbacks, Charizard is still a top threat
Between its middling speed tier, competition from opposing weather, and bad matchups against a myraid of common mons, Charizard is definately not a perfect Pokemon. However, it's an extremely strong and versatile Fire attacker, which matters because there are maybe four or five good Fire pokemon in this meta, and a lot of players swear that Fire pokemon are necessary in most team builds to clear bulky steels like Celesteela, Jirachi and Aegislash. And again, with Charizard and Kanga being the only two viable Megas with base speeds appropriate for Trick Room teams, Charizard is becoming a near-staple on TR builds. The relevancy of TR is another discussion in itself, but I'd argue it's quickly proving to be a check to a meta otherwise dominated by hyper offensive teams (eg. Lele+Deo spam).
 
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After I introduced the Volcarona + Milotic core, a lot of people began to use it, too. It's really neat because Salamence-Mega and Landorus-T can't switch onto them, and if they don't act fast, then Volcarona will continue to use Quiver Dance, thus guaranteeing a win con. An experienced player should also know that they should add mons that can eliminate the core's "walls". Such examples include Landorus-T and Tapu Koko to eliminate Fire-types and Water-types, respectively. And for the final touch, there shouldn't be any surprise that Aegislash or Jirachi is siding with the core as well, thus leaving the Mega slot for you to decide. The fact that Landorus-T's Rock Slide (-1; Jolly) can't OHKO Volcarona is also a big deal. Not to mention, Volcarona's Inferno Overdrive is insanely powerful and even more powerful after a Quiver Dance.

Example Team:


So... is Volcarona good? Yeah... I went 24-0 with it until Croven stopped the streak.
I'm impressed to see that Volcarona do this well in metagame with both Zard-Y and Heatran with it, although I'm sure the Talonflame nerf has helped things. I'm interested in this example team you have for a Volcarona + Milotic core, could be possible for you to provide an import?
 
What is everyone running as their ev's on jirachi? I've been running 252 hp / 60 def / 88+ sp def / 108 spe which lives char-y heat wave, hits 263 speed, and dumps in def, but I'm not sure if there are better marks to hit. Any suggestions?
 

FloristtheBudew

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What is everyone running as their ev's on jirachi? I've been running 252 hp / 60 def / 88+ sp def / 108 spe which lives char-y heat wave, hits 263 speed, and dumps in def, but I'm not sure if there are better marks to hit. Any suggestions?
I've been using EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 68 SpD / 56 Spe Jolly Nature. Takes -1 lando eq as 3 hit ko, lives hydreigon life orb dark pulse 100% and out speeds base 75 (tapu bulu)
 
So Bank is out, but not all of the mega stones, even if the Tree uses 'em. Biggest absences are Mega Gardevoir and Diance, easily, but TR has none of the Megas it used to run. And Rain lacks M-Swampert who seems to pair well with Pelipper.

Metagross, Salamence, and Charizard still have stones, so it feels like just the alternative strats lost Megas. Am I just salty I can't run camerupt/torkoal tr and ragequit on Milotics? On a serious note, losing M-Diance's Diamond Storm spam might be helping Zard-y out a ton, I believe.
 

GenOne

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So Bank is out, but not all of the mega stones, even if the Tree uses 'em. Biggest absences are Mega Gardevoir and Diance, easily, but TR has none of the Megas it used to run. And Rain lacks M-Swampert who seems to pair well with Pelipper.

Metagross, Salamence, and Charizard still have stones, so it feels like just the alternative strats lost Megas. Am I just salty I can't run camerupt/torkoal tr and ragequit on Milotics? On a serious note, losing M-Diance's Diamond Storm spam might be helping Zard-y out a ton, I believe.
DOU was already being played as if Pokebank was out, so we really didn't gain or lose any Mega options compared to before.
 

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