Non-Pokébank Ubers

[Kibblecat]

So, I've been playing around on the non-Pokébanked Ubers metagame, and because of it being a very limited Ubers setting to play in, there are, predictably, an extremely finite number of threats around. I put this team together and found it consistently performed well - didn't win every time, but became pretty definitive of what that strange metagame is about. I'm certainly new to these forums but in some ways I'm a veteran battler; I've been around since the beginning of 4th Gen on the competitive scene, and since I went through 5th without really being a part of it, I wanted to post something significant up here as a first RMT of the gen! So, here it is, not an unbeatable or even cookie-cutter team, but a team based on a concept that anyone playing the 'official' Ubers meta should be prepared for; at the moment, I think that these threats will define their metagame.

Lead - Crippling Baton Pass

Blaziken @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Baton Pass
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Toxic

This set holds a simple concept that we've all been used to for generations, taken to the extreme when they gave Speed Boost to Blaziken. Despite a first look, getting a Swords Dance isn't always necessary since everyone on the team is a potential target and can function without the attack boosts, hence the inclusion of Toxic, which can cripple opposing Baton-Pass receivers or opposing Blaziken, removing sashes and limiting later use. I'm not too worried about Taunters, because the team includes offensive threats that can deal with most defensive Taunt users; less bulky Taunt users tend to be there for stall breaking anyway (in a Crobat/Tornadus-T-esque style), and so pose even less of an issue for a more or less hyper-offensive team.

Bulky-Offence, Revenge-killing, Priority

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Roost
- Brick Break

A powerhouse of damage that can wreck teams once he's received a Speed-Boost; he's still a hard-hitter without. Roost sacrifices coverage (which might otherwise be filled by fighting coverage), but helps Mega Scizor use his respectable bulk to some advantage, especially since he's suffering a bit from the lack of BW2 tutor-move Superpower. He dents most walls effectively but is only really given trouble by Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress and switching-in fire-types, none of which like boosted Xerneas very much and can still be broken through if Mega Scizor has a Swords Dance from Blaziken. This is my best (and only) way of properly dealing with Xerneas, but as such has become a staple on the team; Bullet Punch will 2HKO and Xerneas can only 2HKO in return with it's STAB Moonblast, assuming unboosted. This means I basically can't switch out of Xerneas with anything and just have to dent it with whatever I can while it sets up; this isn't, by any means, a switch in to Xerneas, but provides a soft check.

Scizor's base attack customised up to 150 to match his Mega; custom represents Timid Xerneas:
252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 252-296 (63.95 - 75.12%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.


Defensive Spinning

Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 176 HP / 60 Atk / 242 SDef / 20 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

Part of the defensive presence on the team, he's here to let Blaziken get out quickly while still creating a threat of a heavily boosted attacker. His defensive spinning set is lifted straight out of the BW metagame, where he was viable as a defensive threat who could reliably force out some of the biggest other threats at the time (Zekrom, Rayquaza and Dialga, to name a few that he could push out). Now, with the powerhouses that dealt with him nicely (some Arceus formes, Kyogre, Groudon, Palkia, etc.) all out of the picture, his defensive presence is pretty hard to beat in this meta and the rapid-spin support can keep Blaziken passing the odd Speed Boost around much later than you'd expect, as well as saving those without recovery (namely himself and Xerneas, but also Salamence who has the ever-present weakness to Rocks) from being chipped away at. After a Swords Dance he has a 6.25% chance to 1HKO Xerneas, but even at +2 Xerneas can only 2HKO, with not even a guarantee of that (91.02% chance).

Walling Point, Surprise Offence, PHazing, Spikes

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 232 Def / 252 HP / 24 Spd
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Whirlwind

This is the answer to heavy hitting Dragons (and others, namely Salamence, Garchomp, etc. and also can switch in to a couple of hits from Yveltal and unboosted Xerneas using anything but Thunderbolt with the right prediction; some calculations to come when I come back to edit this). It's fairly cookie-cutter but also serves a pseudo-purpose in that it can be a target for Blaziken's passes, in order to put an unexpected dent in anything that knows it can 1-2HKO Skarmory.

All-Out Attacker, Offensive Stag

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 208 HP / 252 SAtk / 60 Spd
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- HP Fire
- Substitute

This is the real heavy hitter on any team that uses it, and so far that's been almost all teams I've seen. There isn't really a right answer to dealing with this as after a boost it'll at least 2HKO the entire Ubers meta, with the majority falling to 1HKOs. Because of Xerneas' bulk and the SpD boost it gets from the 1-turn Geomancy, it's quite easy to find an opportunity to set up, and the only things that threaten it are the STAB Bullet Punch users, which, available at the moment, are Scizor and Lucario; they still don't like switching in on a Thunderbolt (or Psyshock in Lucario's case), and it's often easy to predict their switches and delay Geomancy until I know I won't be forced out. It's again another less expected target for some Baton Passes, but passing it some Speed Boosts can sometimes let it win out against opposing set-ups.

Cleaner, Anti-Meta Coverage

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake

The final link in the team; this is the last target for stray Speed Boosts that Blaziken can nab, and functions as a great late-game cleaner who can keep himself up if he sees use early on or comes up against priority. Moxie means that he functions well with or without Swords Dances, and guarantees a couple more 1HKOs in may favour than Intimidate would prevent against me in Ubers. He can 1-2HKO Xerneas with Earthquake, who might switch in on me, and he outspeeds Xerneas (just) too, meaning that although he can't switch in and won't be killing boosted Xerneas, if he gets in first or gets more than 2 Speed boosts from Blaziken (pretty easy) he can easily dent Xerneas early on, letting Excadrill come in and survive even boosted Xerneas and KO with his own Earthquake. Of course, this isn't to say I'd ever bring him in on Xerneas myself, not with Scizor sitting above, but it seemed worth pointing out that he's not pure setup fodder for Xerneas. The rest of his coverage is anti-meta and wall breaking; Flamethrower is chosen over Fire-Blast in Ubers for added reliability over the sheer power of Fire-Blast - he still 2HKOs or, at the very worst, threatens all he needs to (4 SpA Salamence Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 200-236 (59.88 - 70.65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, for example).


There's the team, and most of the synergy and some discussion of threats is left in the individual descriptions. It's 01:00 here in the UK so I'll pop back tomorrow and give it a thorough checking-through again, as well as adding in some sprites and such. Thanks all, have fun pulling it apart!

 

[superstar]

This is a pretty good team! First off, there is no reason to run Thunderbolt and Psyshock on Xerneas. Run a set of Geomancy/Moonblast/Hidden Power Fire/Substitute, since Ho-oh, Lugia, and Arceus are all illegal in standard. You need to give him a Modest nature as well, and preferably only 60 Spd EVs with the rest in HP, which is enough to outspeed Scarf Yvetal after a boost while giving you some much needed bulk.

Speaking of that, you flat out lose to an opposing Xerneas with that set (and a bunch of HP EVs) since it sets up on Salamence or Excadrill and Scizor can't do enough damage to it before it is OHKO'd. To remedy that, definitely give Excadrill Iron Head, so Xerneas can't set up on it. Rock Slide doesn't hit much anyway.

In general, Baton Pass is difficult to pull off considering that priority from Yvetal, Lucario, Scizor, Talonflame, and Aegislash is everywhere, but that's the strategy for the team, so I won't suggest you change it. Mence is actually a great team choice because there aren't many Dragons so steel-types aren't everywhere. If you replace Blaziken with Aegislash, that would help out a lot, so consider that -- if you do that, though, you are more vulnerable to Yvetal and less to Xerneas so leave Rock Slide on Excadrill

 

[Kibblecat]

This is a pretty good team! First off, there is no reason to run Thunderbolt and Psyshock on Xerneas. Run a set of Geomancy/Moonblast/Hidden Power Fire/Substitute, since Ho-oh, Lugia, and Arceus are all illegal in standard. You need to give him a Modest nature as well, and preferably only 60 Spd EVs with the rest in HP, which is enough to outspeed Scarf Yvetal after a boost while giving you some much needed bulk.

Speaking of that, you flat out lose to an opposing Xerneas with that set (and a bunch of HP EVs) since it sets up on Salamence or Excadrill and Scizor can't do enough damage to it before it is OHKO'd. To remedy that, definitely give Excadrill Iron Head, so Xerneas can't set up on it. Rock Slide doesn't hit much anyway.

In general, Baton Pass is difficult to pull off considering that priority from Yvetal, Lucario, Scizor, Talonflame, and Aegislash is everywhere, but that's the strategy for the team, so I won't suggest you change it. Mence is actually a great team choice because there aren't many Dragons so steel-types aren't everywhere. If you replace Blaziken with Aegislash, that would help out a lot, so consider that -- if you do that, though, you are more vulnerable to Yvetal and less to Xerneas so leave Rock Slide on Excadrill

Thanks for your comments - I see merit in testing everything you've said; I was actually under the impression Excadrill couldn't get Iron Head at the moment, but if I'm wrong I'll give Iron Head some testing, and I can't see why it wouldn't be a much better option that Rock Slide; consider that change officially made, and ditto for the Xerneas suggestions since the set I've been running just seemed like a pretty standard/threatening option, thus I hadn't thought about a bulkier set.

I'm going to keep Blaziken in for the time being, because he adds extra speed potential to everything in the team; I agree that an effective Baton Pass sweep is hard to pull off, but the thing I've found from testing is that it's actually extremely easy to get at least one speed boost to anything even if I'm sitting at 1 HP from the Sash, and even just one Speed Boost on any member of the team generally has the potential to let it stay in where it'd usually be forced out - the whole reason Ubers are often banned in OU is because they become sets that basically don't have a reason to come out once they're in (as was the case with Sand Rush Excadrill in early BW), so spreading that advantage to Ubers is pretty big. I'm not ruling out testing Aegislash over the Baton Passing, though; that's a great suggestion!

Scizor vs. Xerneas is only 2HKO'd by a +2 Moonblast but 2HKOs in return with Bullet Punch (as per the calc) unless Xerneas takes significant HP investment (which he might, based on what you've said); although there's no true countering Xerneas at the moment, Scizor only has to worry about a Focus Blast and HP Fire which Xerneas won't always take pre-pokebank, so he doesn't mind dropping a Bullet Punch down if Xerneas tries to come in and set up or even just 1HKO; with that dent in him, my own Xerneas can finish up while only being 2HKO'd by the (unboosted) Moonblast (educated guess, correct me if I'm wrong) or, the more probable course of action on my part, Excadrill can come in and finish up with Iron Head.

EDIT: Just double checked; unless it's been confirmed as an egg move this gen, Serebii has Iron Head listed as a Gen5-only move for Excadrill. Sad times.

 

[Disaster Area]

There is one true counter to xerneas, and I'm only mentioning because you've just said otherwise;
Mega-mawile can come in as you geomancy boost, tank a +2 attack (it ought to be a 252HP invested set anyway) and OHKO in return with its massively powerful iron head. And if your bulkier spread survives that, it usually also carries sucker punch. So there is a true counter even in non-pokebank X/Y ubers (and it is viable, clearly if it has that niche).

 

[Kibblecat]

There is one true counter to xerneas, and I'm only mentioning because you've just said otherwise;
Mega-mawile can come in as you geomancy boost, tank a +2 attack (it ought to be a 252HP invested set anyway) and OHKO in return with its massively powerful iron head. And if your bulkier spread survives that, it usually also carries sucker punch. So there is a true counter even in non-pokebank X/Y ubers (and it is viable, clearly if it has that niche).

That's true, I'd not thought too hard about Mawile, but you might be right there. Any idea on the calc for a +2 HP Fire against Mawile?

 

[Disaster Area]

I haven't got one, sorry. I'm not sure if it would KO. I think your only option is to eliminate mawile before you try to sweep with xerneas. Shedinja also comes to mind (HP Fire or Toxic or something would beat that. That being said that's a lot rarer)

 

[Kibblecat]

I haven't got one, sorry. I'm not sure if it would KO. I think your only option is to eliminate mawile before you try to sweep with xerneas. Shedinja also comes to mind (HP Fire or Toxic or something would beat that. That being said that's a lot rarer)

Xerneas Unboosted HP Fire vs. non. HP invested Mega Mawile

252+ SpA (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 152-180 (44.44 - 52.63%) -- 22.27% chance to 2HKO

And, at +2

+2 252+ SpA (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 304-358 (88.88 - 104.67%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO

Invested Mawile

252+ SpA (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 152-180 (37.62 - 44.55%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252+ SpA (custom) Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 304-358 (75.24 - 88.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mawile's Attacks:

252+ Atk Huge Power (custom) Iron Head vs. 208 HP / 0 Def (custom): 516-608 (115.95 - 136.62%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power (custom) Sucker Punch vs. 208 HP / 0 Def (custom): 172-203 (38.65 - 45.61%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So, basically Mawile can 1HKO but serves as a soft check at best, as it can't switch in on a HP fire and basically has to catch Xerneas unboosted and early game to not take a huge chunk from HP Fire. Plus, if he catches boosted Xerneas behind a sub, he'll lose too, seeing as sucker punch will break the sub but won't deal the remaining 75%. So yeah, it's a bit iffy, I can see that he'll be the best check to Xerneas pre-pokebank, but a few ifs and buts attached, and she won't be breaking through the whole team by any means; she'll have trouble breaking through Skarmory, she can't switch in on Mence despite her dragon immunity as she fears Earthquake and Flamethrower, especially the former with an SD or a Moxie boost; she has similar issues with Scizor's Brick-Break and Bullet Punch in that she won't be 1HKO'd straight off but'll take a fair chunk, and she'll have the same with Excadrill who can 1HKO with a boosted Earthquake, and won't have trouble setting up on her if he gets even a single Speed Boost from Blaziken.

 

[Disaster Area]

Any wise mega-mawile user, such as myself, knows full-well that as soon as xerneas is sent out, switch in mawile straight away. Might be nice to have a calc of how much a HP Fire does to regular mawile at 252HP/0SpD as well. For that matter though, I've never met anyone running HP Fire on Xerneas, and often I can get m-mawile in against Xerneas with trick room up too. Is bronzong non-pokebank? That might also potentially be a counter.

 

[Kibblecat]

Any wise mega-mawile user, such as myself, knows full-well that as soon as xerneas is sent out, switch in mawile straight away. Might be nice to have a calc of how much a HP Fire does to regular mawile at 252HP/0SpD as well. For that matter though, I've never met anyone running HP Fire on Xerneas, and often I can get m-mawile in against Xerneas with trick room up too. Is bronzong non-pokebank? That might also potentially be a counter.

Yes, Bronzong is available in Friend Safari, and I could go and do calculations, but its safe to say that with higher HP and Def than M-Mawile, it should survive a boosted HP Fire, provided it came in while Xerneas was setting up. It'd be even better if Heatproof was worth running over Levitate, but, it's not unless you want to give over a whole Pokémon to counter Xerneas (which it may well be worth doing, really). I'll run a calc on Gyro Ball at some point but I'm certain that against +2 Speed Xerneas it'll be a 1HKO. Similarly, though, it's the only reason to run Gyro Ball on Bronzong (and, to be honest, in Ubers, the only reason to run Bronzong at all).

 

[Mega Moltres]

This team is pretty good, if you look at it all except Xerneas are currently available in Pokebank OU. Switch out Xerneas for another high Sp Attacker like CM Latios and you could run Pokebank OU.

 

[Kibblecat]

This team is pretty good, if you look at it all except Xerneas are currently available in Pokebank OU. Switch out Xerneas for another high Sp Attacker like CM Latios and you could run Pokebank OU.

Well, exactly, this was part of the appeal of this team; I might make one or two changes on top of that because it's centred around an Ubers meta, since you'd be amazed what adding threats like Xerneas, Yveltal and Mewtwo can do to the meta.

 

[Haruno]

Just out of curiosity, what is the point of exca/spread? The reasons you listed for its spread is for poke bank ubers which your team is not. If you really wanted a defensive spinner and also a check to xern might I suggest forry? Also helps sets up hazards which your team likes

Edit: for xern ditch psyshock and tbolt and replace it with hp fire + support move since psyshock hits nothing relevant and same applies with tbolt bar molty/talonflame which in all honesty aren't the biggest worries you have

 

[Kibblecat]

Just out of curiosity, what is the point of exca/spread? The reasons you listed for its spread is for poke bank ubers which your team is not. If you really wanted a defensive spinner and also a check to xern might I suggest forry? Also helps sets up hazards which your team likes

Edit: for xern ditch psyshock and tbolt and replace it with hp fire + support move since psyshock hits nothing relevant and same applies with tbolt bar molty/talonflame which in all honesty aren't the biggest worries you have

Actually, I specifically said that the threats that gave him issues were "out of the picture." As per the reasons given on the Smogon strategy-dex (albeit written for Gen-5, but still just as applicable in a gen that only added threats that he can deal with) where this set was lifted straight from, the purpose of the EVs is to balance out his defences and allow him to outspeed base-90's who haven't invested in speed.

Xerneas had already made those changes, as per the first comment on the thread, I'd just not edited them into the OP by mistake despite switching the EVs and Nature as suggested.

EDIT: To briefly clarify on Excadrill; I was a bit unsure on how they balanced out his defences too, but it's published as a working spread and he's not there to function like a standard sweeper, especially outside of sand, so I'm not in any rush to change something small like that, that I've found working well - thanks for your time to comment though, much appreciated, and if I get an overwhelming amount of people also suggesting that Excadrill's spread is odd, I'll definitely try something new!