(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

I'm not super familiar with the bond phenomenon, but I thought you needed a strong link to your Pokemon to activate it? So you have such strong bonds with this Pokemon that it transforms ... to look like it's ex? Seems messed up :D
Would have been nice if it took traits from your character but alas, they went with the awful anime route instead. I still hate Ash Greninja as a concept even in the anime
 
So... I have mentioned in another thread on Pokemon merchandises how messed Vaporeon life-sized plush looks like. I have another complaint I just realise....
This seems to be complaint to the Pokedex entries, actually.... Easy references in pic.


I'll go straight into their size, specifically their height. According to the Pokedex:
Vaporeon, Umbreon, Leafeon, and Sylveon is 1 meter tall.
Flareon and Espeon is 0.9 meter tall.
Jolteon and Glaceon is 0.8 meter tall.

I can understand their different sizes when they account different features such as Vaporeon's upward head fin compared to Espeon's bare head, but that they are sized differently in random manner (when their unique features are excluded to compare each other) annoys me more than it should have. It came to me as... species-ist, that Jolteon and Glaceon is shorter for no reason. The size differences of 10-20 cm is too noticeable (especially there in the pic).

How should I justify this in biology? Maybe Vaporeon is water itself and we know how abundant water compared to lands on Earth is, Leafeon has significant growth as biologically part plant with photosynthesis, and.... how else?
At least Pokemon GO has XS and XL tag to justify that, and this is a reason for me not to ever support NinGure (Sylveon x Glaceon) ship....

That they measure height from foot to head instead of back like standard dog size measuring, I can at least understand, since children probably don't know that.
 
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Pikachu315111

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So... I have mentioned in another thread on Pokemon merchandises how messed Vaporeon life-sized plush looks like. I have another complaint I just realise....
This seems to be complaint to the Pokedex entries, actually.... Easy references in pic.


I'll go straight into their size, specifically their height. According to the Pokedex:
Vaporeon, Umbreon, Leafeon, and Sylveon is 1 meter tall.
Flareon and Espeon is 0.9 meter tall.
Jolteon and Glaceon is 0.8 meter tall.

I can understand their different sizes when they account different features such as Vaporeon's upward head fin compared to Espeon's bare head, but that they are sized differently in random manner (when their unique features are excluded to compare each other) annoys me more than it should have. It came to me as... species-ist, that Jolteon and Glaceon is shorter for no reason. The size differences of 10-20 cm is too noticeable (especially there in the pic).

How should I justify this in biology? Maybe Vaporeon is water itself and we know how abundant water compared to lands on Earth is, Leafeon has significant growth as biologically part plant with photosynthesis, and.... how else?
At least Pokemon GO has XS and XL tag to justify that, and this is a reason for me not to ever support NinGure (Sylveon x Glaceon) ship....

That they measure height from foot to head instead of back like standard dog size measuring, I can at least understand, since children probably don't know that.
If I could guess, the reason for the size differences is to give them some more differences between each other in their generation groupings. While altogether it looks odd they're different sizes, let's break them down to their gen groupings:

Gen I: Vaporeon (1m), Flareon (.9m), Jolteon (.8m)
Gen II: Umbreon (1m), Espeon (.9m)
Gen IV: Leafeon (1m), Glaceon (.8m)
Gen VI: Sylveon (1m)

As you can see, Gen I has all the sizes, Gen II has the two biggest, Gen VI had the two extremes, and Gen VI only had one so it used the size all of them had (though honestly it probably should have been .9m or .8m). Eitherway, in a way it gives each Eeveelution something unique about them both within their grouping and as a grouping together (I'd imagine any future inclusions would either be a duo of .9m & .8m, solo .9m, or solo .8m).

Also this could explain why each one got the size that they did. They represent the amount of their element occurs in nature within their grouping:

Gen I: Vaporeon represents water which covers 70% of the planet's surface, Flareon represents fire which mostly exists as volcanoes and forest fires, Jolteon represents electricity which pretty much is restricted to lightning bolts (and some species of fish).
Gen II: Umbreon and Espeon represent night and day. From our planet's viewpoint, the Moon look larger than the Sun. "But the Sun is actually way bigger than the Moon!". True, but maybe this is where Poke-biology could come into play: due to the Moons bigger appearance in the sky, the Umbreon species is able to absorb more of it thus grow larger (phases of the moon not withstanding).
Gen IV: The majority of the planet's surface is warmer than cold and warmer climates support plant life.

Honestly, I kind of like they're different sizes. As I said, it gives them a neat little trivial difference between each other that isn't just their type. That all said, it has caused a bit of a size issue. 1m and .9m doesn't look too bad, but Jolteon and Glaceon do look like a size too small (which they are). Actually, Jolteon hides its size pretty good, it's more Glaceon that has the problem. Jolteon spiky design makes it look bigger or at least more filled out than it's suppose to be, however Glaceon is meant to be more streamlined so there's nothing hiding its size (plus it looks like it has a smaller head due to its hair cutting off the sides of it face). So if anything I wouldn't say its the size that's the issue but Glaceon's design being too plain to not make up for it.
 

Pikachu315111

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GF, can you figure out a formula for the Starters stats already? I'll forgive Gen I & II due to early installment weirdness, but come Gen III I would think they create the same stat spread to use for all Starters. Yet:

Gen III:
Treecko/Grovyle/Sceptile = 310/405/530
Torchic/Combusken/Blaziken = 310/405/530
Mudkip/Marshtomp/Swampert = 310/405/535

Alright, sorta did it here though for some reason Swampert have an additional 5. But overall a BST of 310/405/530 seems alright for the Starter.

Gen IV:
Turtwig/Grotle/Torterra = 318/405/525
Chimchar/Monferno/Infernape = 309/405/534
Piplup/Prinplup/Empoleon = 314/405/530

... What happened? The Basic Stage and 2nd Stage stats are all over the place, only the Mid Stage are the same.

Gen V:
Snivy/Servine/Serperior = 308/413/528
Tepig/Pignite/Emboar = 308/418/528
Oshawott/Dewott/Samurott = 308/413/528

... Okay, back to somewhat order (this time its one of the Mid Stages that doesn't match the other, Pignite), but at the same time pretty random numbers.

Gen VI:
Chespin/Quilladin/Chesnaught = 313/405/530
Fennekin/Braixen/Delphox = 307/409/534
Froakie/Frogadier/Greninja = 314/405/530

Fennekin family... well, the Basic stage all have different stats though Chespin and Froakie are just 1 point away from each other. After that only the Fennekin family has different BST for its Mid and Final stages.

Gen VII:
Rowlet/Dartrix/Decidueye = 320/420/530
Litten/Torracat/Incineroar = 320/420/530
Popplio/Brionne/Primarina = 320/420/530

FINALLY! It only took you SEVEN Generations! Course who knows if they keep to it next generation.
 
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It would make sense, with the idea that no starter should be better than the others.

But then they have different types (one has to be Grass :P ), and fare differently against the game's various 'bosses', so I'm not sure it would be 'fair' either way.

Definitely easier/neater though.
 
As you say, their usefulness is inevitably going to vary dramatically regardless. Making the BST the same achieves basically nothing and just makes the whole thing feel even more formulaic/less credible. Unless you're dealing with starters that are meant to be independently related to each other, it's quite a coincidence that they would happen to have the exact same BST (of course stats are representational, but replace that with whatever they represent).
 

Pikachu315111

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I don't see any reason to make something that's already way too formulaic and repetitive even more so.
Well first off it's a turn-based battling game, a lot of things are going to be formulaic. Also This doesn't seem to have affected Legendary Pokemon or the Eeveelutions who follow a BST rule. Also wouldn't how the stats be distributed (as well as other traits outside stats such as typing, Ability, & movepool) be the determining factor whether it'll become repetitive?

As you say, their usefulness is inevitably going to vary dramatically regardless. Making the BST the same achieves basically nothing and just makes the whole thing feel even more formulaic/less credible. Unless you're dealing with starters that are meant to be independently related to each other, it's quite a coincidence that they would happen to have the exact same BST (of course stats are representational, but replace that with whatever they represent).
Having their BST be the same would give the design team a scope to work with. They'll know exactly how many stat points they'd have to work with so be more focus on placing those points to the stat they want that Pokemon to focus on. In addition after doing so they might find they have "leftover" points and those could be put in stats not to focused on to buff them up a little (give an offensive Pokemon some more defense/Speed or a defensive/speedy Pokemon some more damaging power).

Also, they are related to each other: They're the Starters. Pokemon that seems to have been specifically bred to be given to new trainers if they went to the Professor. Why wouldn't they be equal to one another? Unless you're implying that the Starter with seemingly the disadvantage should have a higher BST (though a few points difference I doubt would make a difference as it's more the stat distribution, type & movepool that makes a Pokemon lacking).
 
Also, they are related to each other: They're the Starters. Pokemon that seems to have been specifically bred to be given to new trainers if they went to the Professor. Why wouldn't they be equal to one another? Unless you're implying that the Starter with seemingly the disadvantage should have a higher BST (though a few points difference I doubt would make a difference as it's more the stat distribution, type & movepool that makes a Pokemon lacking).
By "independently related" I mean related beyond the fact that they've been chosen as starters. They've been grouped together, but that doesn't make them, on their own, related to each other in any way. It's not a question of why they wouldn't be equal; it's just incredibly unlikely that they would naturally come to be if they're just three unrelated species.

There's not much for me to say, though. We have different priorities: you're focused on the game design, and I'm focused on the world design. I think the latter has to trump the former, but I don't expect most people to agree.
 
Chances are there's some logic behind the starters' BSTs - maybe not much, but you gotta start somewhere I guess. I'll actually include gen 1 and 2 as well.

Bulbasaur/Ivysaur/Venusaur = 318/405/525 [Gen I: 253/325/425] (Total: 1248 [1003]) Lv 16/32
Charmander/Charmeleon/Charizard = 309/405/534 [Gen I: 249/325/425] (Total: 1248 [999]) Lv 16/36
Squirtle/Wartortle/Blastoise = 314/405/530 [Gen I: 250/325/425] (Total: 1249 [1000]) Lv 16/36

Chikorita/Bayleef/Meganium = 318/405/525 (Total: 1248) Lv 16/32
Cyndaquil/Quilava/Typhlosion = 309/405/534 (Total: 1248) Lv 14/36
Totodile/Croconaw/Feligatr = 314/405/530 (Total: 1249) Lv 18/30

Turtwig/Grotle/Torterra = 318/405/525 (Total: 1248) Lv 18/32
Chimchar/Monferno/Infernape = 309/405/534 (Total: 1248) Lv 14/36
Piplup/Prinplup/Empoleon = 314/405/530 (Total: 1248) Lv 16/36

One point worth noting right away is that while the individual stages of the starters in gens 1, 2, 4 and 6 seem to have some odd discrepancies, across the entire evolution lines they pretty much even out again (although why the Blastoise and Feraligatr lines have 1 point more than the other starters in those gens is anyone's guess). In the same vein, the middle stages tend to be the same (once again there are exceptions with Pignite and Braixen, but more on (one of) them in a bit).

Basically, it seems like GF wanted there to be some trade-off between early-game and late-game usefulness in terms of stats. In their base forms, the BSTs indicate Bulbasaur > Squirtle > Charmander and then in their final stages that's flipped around with Charizard > Blastoise > Venusaur. This also works out nicely with Oak's descriptions when you pick your starter in FRLG.

What you might find odd in this context is evolution level - it makes sense in gen 4, Chimchar has the lowest BST and evolves the earliest whereas Turtwig has the highest and evolves the latest. Likewise, you get Torterra at the lowest level, but in terms of BST it's the weakest of the three final forms. The main flaw with this argument is of course that it doesn't work in gen 2. Maybe that's a result of wanting to carry over the gen 1 stat totals while also accounting for grass having bad match-ups early-game or something, who knows.


Treecko/Grovyle/Sceptile = 310/405/530 (Total: 1245) Lv 16/36
Torchic/Combusken/Blaziken = 310/405/530 (Total: 1245) Lv 16/36
Mudkip/Marshtomp/Swampert = 310/405/535 (Total: 1250) Lv 16/36

Snivy/Servine/Serperior = 308/413/528 (Total: 1249) Lv 17/36
Tepig/Pignite/Emboar = 308/418/528 (Total: 1254) Lv 17/36
Oshawott/Dewott/Samurott = 308/413/528 (Total: 1249) Lv 17/36

The gen 3 and gen 5 lines are balanced with the exception of Swampert and Pignite each having 5 points over their respective counterparts. To me it seems the only connection here is that both of those lines have the lowest speed out of all the starters in their respective gens, so I would guess speed is where those 5 points went. Maybe they felt they had to reach a certain speed threshold, but were unwilling to sacrifice any of the other stats for whatever reason.


Chespin/Quilladin/Chesnaught = 313/405/530 (Total: 1248) Lv 16/36
Fennekin/Braixen/Delphox = 307/409/534 (Total: 1250) Lv 16/36
Froakie/Frogadier/Greninja = 314/405/530 (Total: 1249) Lv 16/36

...I've got nothing for these guys. It seems like Fennekin was another attempt at the trade-off idea from Kanto, Johto and Sinnoh, but why Chespin and Froakie are pretty much identical at the same time? No clue.


Now of course there are a lot of other factors to consider in reality - stat distribution, type match-ups and so on, as others have already pointed out. But that's why there's only some logic to be found here and not an overwhelming amount.
 
It might have already been mentioned, but the process of transferring between Gens before Pokebank is...really bad. What could have been a simple process where you select the Pokemon you want to move from one PC to another becomes a time consuming mini game. And the big catch is, you can only transfer 6 Pokemon per day. Have a whole PC full of mons? Hope you enjoy spending weeks tediously transferring mons from one game to another, catching them all over again, and then, at the end of it all, leaving one behind. It still bugs me slightly that Gamefreak's solution to an unnecessary problem is a paid service, as opposed to something as simple as removing the number limit and stupid catching game, but I suppose they have to make money somehow, right?
 
People often take a jab at Team Flare for being the worst villainous team but during my playthrough of HGSS I've come to realize that even Team Flare isn't as bad as the disaster that is GSCHGSS Team Rocket. I'm going to be talking with HGSS in mind because I've just finished the Team Rocket plot (and I don't remember GSC that well). I don't care that it's a remake because GSC was even blander when it came to Team Rocket anyway, so I don't think there would've been any issue with changing a few things.

So you first encounter Team Rocket at Slowpoke Well. It's set up decently well. A vile team cutting the tails off of Slowpoke with no regard for the Pokemon, all for the sake of profit? It's not a bad set up to introduce Team Rocket to the player. While minor, Proton doesn't have a unique battle theme which makes him seem less threatening than the standard Grunt (I know it's a remake but that's no excuse - and I know Gen 1 did it too but I still have a problem with it). But it's minor, and at least he's set up to be a threatening villain.

After the introduction of Team Rocket, you don't hear or see them for 5 gyms (assuming you go in the correct order). You're already over half way through Johto by the time you're going to see them again. Why? Not even a small encounter? You forget about them and then suddenly you have 95% of the Team Rocket plot shoved at you, with the only break being a quick Gym detour. Again, the set up isn't bad - Magikarp being forced to evolve, but it's how the game suddenly forces you through the Team Rocket plot in 1-2 hours of gameplay that bugs me. You could remove the Slowpoke Well incident and you'd have the entirety of the Team Rocket grunt in what is basically one go (I'm ignoring that one Kanto Grunt here). There's not any real urgency to it to begin with either. Lance is clearly a capable trainer (he has a dragon!) and he could easily clear out the Rocket Hideout without the player. At least when similar incidents happen with other Teams they atleast recognize your strength/skill with Pokemon is required, but nothing is stopping Lance from just dealing with Team Rocket there and then. This isn't like other games where the Champion isn't very plot relevant, he's here and actively helping - why are you there? Yeah OK he saw you deal with the Red Gyarados well, but it just doesn't feel as urgent when Lance is there.

OK, so now you've cleared the Rocket Hideout and got yourself the next Gym Badge. Immediately after you're forced into more Rocket plot. The take over of the Goldenrod Radio Tower. The first thing I realized is that the player has absolutely no need to try and dress like a Team Rocket member. You just cleared the Rocket Hideout, I doubt the Grunts at the Radio Tower are going to give you much more trouble so this doesn't make sense. So you've almost cleared out the Goldenrod Tower, and you go through two Executives (who really are just glorified Grunts, more on that later). You're here, at the climatic final battle. You face off against Rocket Executive Archer... Who? The climatic battle isn't even Ariana, who would've been a more sensible choice given how she'd been introduced as "the interim boss of Team Rocket" and the player was already aware of her existence. But nope, instead you face off against a hidden nobody. There is absolutely no hype for this fight at all. At least Giovanni had been introduced to the player and had already been set up, but Archer? Archer has no personality. Oh and it is by far the worst Team Leader fight ever. People complain about recent leaders only having 4 Pokemon, but Archer? 3. 3 Pokemon. How am I supposed to take this seriously? Oh and his team is awful too - two members of the same evolution line and a Koffing? That's so boring. The fight immediately preceding this one had a more interesting team - Ariana. Seriously, why wasn't she the final boss? Arbok, Vileplume and Murkrow? That's way more interesting than Houndour, Houndoom and Koffing.

OK, so you've beaten Archer and... that's it. He gives like 4 lines of dialogue and then walks away, never to be seen again. Nice knowing you Archer...or not, since you're such a bland character. You get a Wing and then... that's it. Do whatever you were doing, go on your merry way. It's so bland and boring? Why? Where's the climax?

Oh well, mabye this would be salvageable if they had some memorable characters!...oh wait...Proton is immediately set up as a scary character. And that is completely wasted because you don't see him again until the very near end of this awful plotline. And there he's nothing more than a glorified Grunt with some generic dialogue. Petrel is a bit better because you don't forget him and his gimmick as being able to disguise himself isn't that bad, but it feels like that's all there is too him. Well, he seems like a nice person I guess, but there isn't much. Ariana is... bland. She respects your strength and wishes you were a part of Team Rocket - there isn't much more to her.

Oh hello Archer. You're the worst. You don't even have a "gimmick" like the other three executives do. There is nothing to you at all. You're just... there as a poorly set up final villain. I'm struggling for things to say about you because you're that bad. You want Giovanni to return - that's nice. The fact that that's all I can say about the Leader really isn't good. Everyone else had some sort of personality and/or an existent plot, but you... you're seen for one moment and one moment only.
 
Those are complaints about how Team Rocket is presented and how the games are structured, not about Team Rocket itself. Flare is itself insanely stupid and impossible to take seriously, whereas Team Rocket is actually credible.


If they insist on repeating the "evil team" formula, tweaked just slightly in SM, they could at least stop calling every single group a "team." I always assumed it was related to what they're called in Japanese, but either way it's incredibly dumb and unsubtle.
 

Pikachu315111

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If they insist on repeating the "evil team" formula, tweaked just slightly in SM, they could at least stop calling every single group a "team." I always assumed it was related to what they're called in Japanese, but either way it's incredibly dumb and unsubtle.
In Japan each group ends with "-dan" which translates to "gang". So in Japan they're known as Rocket-dan/Rocket Gang, Aqua-dan/Aqua Gang, Magma-dan/Magma Gang, etc..

I guess they changed it to "team" since, at least in the US, we have a different interpretation of what a "gang" is (the rapper thug image; Bloods, Crips, etc.). That was either deemed too violent and/or not properly representing what Team Rocket was (Team Rocket are based on the Yakuza, a criminal organization) so changed it to "team" to get the criminal organization idea across better (and also give a less violent image... until you play the games and its revealed they killed a Marowak).
 
In Japan each group ends with "-dan" which translates to "gang". So in Japan they're known as Rocket-dan/Rocket Gang, Aqua-dan/Aqua Gang, Magma-dan/Magma Gang, etc..

I guess they changed it to "team" since, at least in the US, we have a different interpretation of what a "gang" is (the rapper thug image; Bloods, Crips, etc.). That was either deemed too violent and/or not properly representing what Team Rocket was (Team Rocket are based on the Yakuza, a criminal organization) so changed it to "team" to get the criminal organization idea across better (and also give a less violent image... until you play the games and its revealed they killed a Marowak).
Though "gang" does fit Team Skull almost to a T... but by this point it's tradition to call the antagonist group of the game a Team.
 

Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
There would be huge backlash from an already-pissed group in parents if Team Skull was called a game. Pokémon would be toast.

And I'm going to be the first one to complain about the design of Lycanroc-Dusk. It looks to me like a recolored Midday form with a bit more hair. It's not very creative at all.

i'm not a pokemon fan according to verlisify
 
And I'm going to be the first one to complain about the design of Lycanroc-Dusk. It looks to me like a recolored Midday form with a bit more hair. It's not very creative at all.

i'm not a pokemon fan according to verlisify
Well, at least they said it will not be available in the wild through conventional methods, so unless it gets plot exposition (please don't, Game Freak; pick a reptile or dinosaur instead) we won't be coming across it, so it compensates.

Dusk Lycanroc's design has plenty of problems... but it being way too similar to the Midday form is far from the worst. The worst one is the kind of animal it's based on.
 

Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
Well, at least they said it will not be available in the wild through conventional methods, so unless it gets plot exposition (please don't, Game Freak; pick a reptile or dinosaur instead) we won't be coming across it, so it compensates.

Dusk Lycanroc's design has plenty of problems... but it being way too similar to the Midday form is far from the worst. The worst one is the kind of animal it's based on.
Well, that might just mean that you have to evolve Rockruff, rather than just going to the Vast Poni Canyon. I'd honestly, truly hate it if it gets plot exposition. As it is, I'm already considering not buying USUM, and I think this thing has the potential to nail that in the coffin.
 
People unhappy with the Dusk form, just wait until you see the Dawn form ;)

And so this isn't just a nothing post, Dusk form apparently gets Accelrock and Counter (yay...), with the ability Tough Claws. (From Serebii)
 

Pikachu315111

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People unhappy with the Dusk form, just wait until you see the Dawn form ;)

And so this isn't just a nothing post, Dusk form apparently gets Accelrock and Counter (yay...), with the ability Tough Claws. (From Serebii)
With it getting both its contemporary's "signature" moves I'm further pushed to thinking there's no Dawn form. What would they even do with the Dawn form, not give it any of its contemporary's signature moves? Instead have it focus on an Ability gimmick, even a signature Ability?

Also, can we stop treating Counter as something special? It's not, at least not on Lycanroc Midnight. I sorta get what they were going for with Midnight being a sort of blood knight, but I think there could have been a better way to show that off and not compromise it's battling capabilities.
 

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