Kitsunoh [QC: 0/3]

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emma

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DPL Champion
[OVERVIEW]
  • Versatile, can run offensive and defensive sets well, great move options, solid typing, balanced stats
  • Base 110 speed, can outrun Garchomp, good pivot with U-Turn
  • Iron Fist gives new options it didn't have last gen with boosted Meteor Mash and Elemental Punches
  • Will-O-Wisp and Defog give Kitsunoh support options, crippling opponents and removing hazards
  • 12 resistances including Fairy and Dragon, resists Stealth Rock, forces out key Pokemon like Aurumoth and Mega Crucibelle.
  • Colossoil - Two super effective STABS and Sucker Punch / Pursuit
  • Only a 103 Attack Stat with no way to boost beside Hone Claws
  • Frail defenses at 80 / 85 / 80
[SET]
Name: Offensive Pivot
Move 1: Meteor Mash / Iron Head
Move 2: Shadow Strike
Move 3: U-turn
Move 4: Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Iron Fist
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Meteor Mash is STAB and lets it hit common Pokemon like Tapu Bulu Syclant, and Clefable for super effective damage, along with a 20% chance to raise Kitsunoh's attack.
  • Iron Head is the safer choice with 100% accuracy and a 30% chance to flinch, but with 18 less base power.
  • Shadow Strike is Ghost STAB that can be spammed with a 50% chance to defense drop the opponent and hits Aurumoth, Tapu Lele, and Necturna for twice the normal damage.
  • U-turn makes Kitsunoh a great pivot, being able to switch out on common switch ins like Heatrhan and Tomohawk and gain momentum.
  • Ice Punch is boosted by Iron Fist and can cover Tomohawk and Landorus-T.
  • Thunder Punch is also boosted by Iron Fist and can hit Celesteela and Tapu Fini.
Set Details
========
  • 252 EVs in Speed allows Kitsunoh to speed tie with base 110s with 252 EVs, and a positive nature, such as Latios and outspeeding anything below, including Mega Pinsir.
  • 252 EVs in Attack make most of Kitsunoh's second highest stat, and allow it hit hard with its STAB attacks and coverage.
  • The last 4 EVs are put into Special Defense as it is its lowest defense stat, along with the fact that Kitsunoh already has a odd numbered HP stat.
  • Iron Fist boosts Meteor Mash, Ice Punch, and Thunder Punch by 1.2%.
  • Kitsunoh can outspeed Scarf Volkraken, Kerfuffle, +1 Aurumoth, and Syclant with a Choice Scarf.
Usage Tips
========
  • Pivot with U-turn
  • Clean up late game with fast attacks
  • Break walls with Shadow Strike
  • Pair with Volturn for set-up and momentum - Don't stack ground weaknesses
Team Options
========
  • Switch ins - Dark / Fire / Ground / Ghost - Colossoil, Volkraken
  • Set-up Sweepers - Aurumoth, Manaphy
  • Colossoil checks - Tomohawk / Landot
  • Wallbreakers - Tapu Lele / Koko
[SET]
Name: Support
Move 1: Iron Head / Shadow Strike
Move 2: U-Turn
Move 3: Will-O-Wisp
Move 4: Defog
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Iron Head, main STAB hits Fairy (Clefable) / Rock (Stratagem) / Ice (Weavile) types for super effective damage
  • Shadow Strike another option which hits Ghost (Other Kitsunoh) and Psychic (Aurumoth) types for super effective damage. 50% chance to drop defense can help break walls. Used when team has a good match-up against Fairies.
  • U-Turn = pivot, can gain momentum against common switch ins such as Tomohawk and Landorus-T
  • Defog gets rid of hazards - Stealth Rock (resist) Toxic Spikes (Immune) and Spikes
Set Details
========
  • 252 HP maximizes bulk
  • 252 Spe + Jolly hits 350, outspeeds anything below
  • 4 Atk boosts lone attacking move
  • Frisk scouts item like Lando Helmet/Leftovers, doesn't need Limber because not a need for speed
  • Leftovers only recovery and increases longevity
Usage Tips
========
  • Wisp and U-turn use on switches
  • Defog if they are only on your side or if they are on both you need them off your field more than you need them on the opponents
  • Low Atk w/ no investment = Use Will-O-Wisp or U-turn more
  • Volturn to help bring in sweepers or set-up
Team Options
========
  • Rotom-Wash - covers Fire/Ground, Kitsunoh covers Grass
  • Tyranitar - Covers Dark and Ghosts, Kitsunoh covers Fighting, Steel, Grass, Bug, and Fairy
  • Volturn - Tapu Koko / Torn-T
  • Colossoil checks pls (Tomohawk)
[SET]
Name: All Out Attacker
Move 1: Meteor Mash / Iron Head
Move 2: Shadow Strike
Move 3: Earthquake
Move 4: Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
Item: Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • ice punch if you need more support against lando/zyg or thunder punch if you're running tapu koko and want the boost from electric terrain
  • meteor mash is more powerful but you can miss but you want power on all out attack ya feel
  • shadow strike stab yeet
  • eq to beat common switch ins like heatran or mollux
  • HONE CLAWS to boost atk and acc so meteor mash doesnt miss and is super strong

Set Details
========

  • literally the same exact evs.
  • max speed jolly to speed tie mega diancie, though adamant can work to get extra power
  • iron fist to boost meteor mash and elemental punches
  • lo (lose hp) / band (locked into move) for damage, but with drawbacks, can use expert belt too to bluff cb

Usage Tips
========

  • try not to reveal eq until you can bop mollux/tran on the switch
  • wallbreak with your nice coverage and let faster pokemon (scarfers, marshadow) to clean up late game
  • if using zmove, make sure to use it smartly since you only have one. dont use it on a super risky prediction bc you dont want to waste it

Team Options
========

  • lures mollux/heatran so anything that struggles against those mons (tapu bulu, aurumoth)
  • ground (landot/zyg) or water (fini) to cover the fire weakness of kitsunoh+tapu bulu or aurumoth
  • colossoil checks because you still lose

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • Z Move - Z Steel or Z Ghost for strong one time attack
  • WishTect w/ Wisp + SStrike. Checks Tomohawk, Medicham, Tapu Lele, and CM Naviathan. Works as a great stallbreaker. 252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Spe Jolly Frisk
  • Knock Off (replace Elemental Punch) removes the opponents items while taking away a solid coverage move.
  • Trick (replace Elemental Punch) - cripple walls with scarf
  • Taunt - Stop healing or set-up / Roar - Stop set-up / Paint Split - Only way of healing (all replace Elemental Punch)
  • 252 HP / 4 Atk / 80 Def / 140 SpD / 32 Spe Jolly Leftovers - avoid the 3HKO from both Kerfuffle and Mega Crucible's STAB Attacks, while 2HKOing both in return. Also takes a +6 item-less Acrobatics from Cawmodore and outspeeds Adamant 252 Speed EVs Colossoil so it can avoid the Knock Off.
  • Memento in order to weaken setup sweepers (tapu bulu) or hella threats (colossoil) but then you die
  • Limber to avoid paralysis do you dont slow down (especially helpful on scarf set) but other abilities are generally more useful
Checks and Counters
===================

**Colossoil**: Both of Colossoil's STAB attacks hit Kitsunoh for Super Effective damage, along with options to cover the faster attack with Sucker Punch and the switch with Pursuit. It also doesn't care about Will-O-Wisp due to Guts, and takes little from all of Kitsunoh's attacks. However, Colossoil does not appreciate U-Turn since it hates getting worn down.

**Cyclohm**: Physically Defensive + Shield Dust allows it to ignore the potential drop from Shadow Strike and Iron Head's flinch chance, Static gives a paralysis chance

**Fire Types**: Fire types such as Mega Charizard X, Mollux, and Heatran take very little damage from Kitsunoh's attacks, especially on the support set. They can't be burned from Will-O-Wisp and do major damage with their STAB attacks.

**Physical Walls**: Due to Kitsunoh's average attacking stats, and not investing much on the Support set, it leaves Kitsunoh to get walled by common physically defensive Pokemon such as Tomohawk and Cyclohm. Knock Off can be used to cripple common switch ins, along with Will-O-Wisp, but keep in mind that Mega Pokemon such as Mega Venusaur don't care about Knock Off, but all of those mentioned don't appreciate a burn.

**Choice Scarf Users**: Common Choice Scarf users, such as Volkraken and Landorus-Therian, can easily outspeed Kitsunoh, isn't holding a Choice Scarf, and hit hard with a Super Effective STAB attack.
 
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emma

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hit em with the qc checks

will ofc beef up and use good grammar when im able to write this up in paragrpah form
 

snake

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This analysis feels incomplete. There definitely needs to be a WishTect set. To my knowledge, spark came up with this one:

Kitsunoh @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Strike
- Will-O-Wisp
- Wish
- Protect

252+ SpA Life Orb Tomohawk Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Kitsunoh: 122-144 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Kitsunoh Shadow Strike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tomohawk: 96-114 (27.3 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

The more times you have to use Taunt to stop Kitsunoh's recovery, smack Kitsunoh with Hurricane, or miss with Hurricane, the more times Kit gets to smack you with Shadow Strike.

0 Atk Kitsunoh Shadow Strike vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Tomohawk: 144-171 (41 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

After one Shadow Strike defense drop, you've effectively forced Tomohawk to Roost every turn. This is huge given how effective of a stallbreaker Tomohawk can be. Kitsunoh also acts as a good check to Medicham, Tapu Lele, and CM Naviathan. Frisk lets you scout for items, and you can't trap this guy with Dugtrio. I'm no stall player, but I know beating all of those stallbreakers with just one Pokemon isn't a small feat for stall teams. Not sure if you should merge this with the support set, but I'm feeling like it should be a new set because the usage tips and team options will be much different.

I'm feeling like a Choice Band set deserves more than OO too, but I need to test it. cbrevan, HeaLnDeaL, any objections to any of these changes?
 

HeaLnDeaL

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I'm not sure how I feel about band moving out of OO, but really the bigger problem here is that we seem to be pushing for sets that are criminally undertested. Kitsunoh got relatively minor changes but the ability alone was enough to shift how Kitsunoh operates. Really, for any mon with notable changes I'd like all writers and all QCer to provide some quality replays of any sets written/suggested. This is not "theorymon-a-set." Personally, in all of the matches I've played and watched so far, the only Kit set I've seen has just been an offensive one. I certainly think more exist, but I don't like the idea of just making sets that haven't been tested for nearly long enough.
 

snake

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I'm not sure how I feel about band moving out of OO, but really the bigger problem here is that we seem to be pushing for sets that are criminally undertested. Kitsunoh got relatively minor changes but the ability alone was enough to shift how Kitsunoh operates. Really, for any mon with notable changes I'd like all writers and all QCer to provide some quality replays of any sets written/suggested. This is not "theorymon-a-set." Personally, in all of the matches I've played and watched so far, the only Kit set I've seen has just been an offensive one. I certainly think more exist, but I don't like the idea of just making sets that haven't been tested for nearly long enough.
I'll see if I can grab some replays of WishTect, but spark seems to be playing well with it. In any case, I'll be testing Kitsunoh's sets since I've been meaning to anyways.
 

Deck Knight

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Err, doesn't HazeHawk just Haze away any Defense drops inflicted by Wishunoh? I suppose the continuous pressure is there if you keep spamming it and getting the drop, but Haze removes negative defensive drops too.
 

snake

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Err, doesn't HazeHawk just Haze away any Defense drops inflicted by Wishunoh? I suppose the continuous pressure is there if you keep spamming it and getting the drop, but Haze removes negative defensive drops too.
Stallbraker tomo runs Hurricane, Focus Blast or Aura Sphere, Taunt, and Roost. It's criminally underused honestly.
 

Deck Knight

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Stallbraker tomo runs Hurricane, Focus Blast or Aura Sphere, Taunt, and Roost. It's criminally underused honestly.
Yeah, just wanted to verify since presently Tomo is listed as a counter, and the Wishunoh's set heavily implies a better matchup against Tomohawk, but it isn't the Hazehawk matchup. This is a Kitsunoh analysis so it seems reasonable to have the focus on Kitsunoh's performance vs generalized threats and avoid calling a mon a counter in one section but suggesting a set overcomes that counter in another.
 

snake

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Yeah, just wanted to verify since presently Tomo is listed as a counter, and the Wishunoh's set heavily implies a better matchup against Tomohawk, but it isn't the Hazehawk matchup. This is a Kitsunoh analysis so it seems reasonable to have the focus on Kitsunoh's performance vs generalized threats and avoid calling a mon a counter in one section but suggesting a set overcomes that counter in another.
But if Wishunoh works well on stall teams because it can withstand stallbreaker LO Tomohawk (and other stallbreakers too) then it should probably have the set listed. If Wishunoh really wanted to, it could run Toxic to wear down defensive Tomohawk.

If I'm reading your post right, you're saying that stallbreaker Lele and Choice Scarf Lele can't be on the same analysis because Chaney walls Scarf but loses to stallbreaker Lele.
 

Deck Knight

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But if Wishunoh works well on stall teams because it can withstand stallbreaker LO Tomohawk (and other stallbreakers too) then it should probably have the set listed. If Wishunoh really wanted to, it could run Toxic to wear down defensive Tomohawk.

If I'm reading your post right, you're saying that stallbreaker Lele and Choice Scarf Lele can't be on the same analysis because Chaney walls Scarf but loses to stallbreaker Lele.
I'm mostly saying that the analysis should note in the set notes which Tomohawk it is the set addresses so the analysis itself is more cohesive. It's a minor observation that will help new players understand the meta a little better.
 
So hm
I personally am unsure of Choice Scarf Pivot as a set name I mean isn't that just offensive pivot? I'm also a bit disliking that your only offensive set is based on U-Turn. I feel like another offensive set such as Choice Band / Life Orb as an All-Out-Attacker are worth more than just a mention and could be written.

On your first set I was surprised that you didn't even mention Earthquake as a possibility as it allows Kitsunoh to hit threats such as Mollux and Heatran that you have mentioned but not once said that Kitsunoh had enough power to get rid of?

I personally think that your analysis is lacking and that so much more could be mentioned, Kitsunoh is very versatile in it's moveslots which most of the time surprises opponents. It has pretty big coverage options, priority, and has access to set up moves such as Hone Claws which you fail to highlight.

I am no QC member though :)
 

snake

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I still think Wish Kit deserves at least OO. Still one of the only stallmons that doesn't really care about Tomo, Lele, Mmedi etc. all in one. There's a post of mine up there explaining it.
 

emma

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i will definitely add it to oo. i can make another set or replace the current defensive set if thats what qc wants
 
Wish Tect Kitsunoh definitely deserves a set, I personnally think it should be the first listed and replace the current Utility set as it can wall / check a dozen of offensive threats ( Medicham, Crucibelle, Tomohawk and Magearna to name a few) and brings a lot of support to his team with Wish and potentially Defog too. The majority of Kitsunoh I have seen run this set and it does such a great job in both balance and stall teams. I would never play a support Kitsunoh without Wish.
 
So I does have a few mentions,

To stay on topic I agree that Wish Support Kitsunoh should have a set, I'm not sure if it should be the first one listed though, as good as Kitsunoh is as supporting a team I don't know how "better" it is against regular Support set and I doubt it is.

For the offensive sets, if you're not going to include Limber a slash, maybe give it at least a mention. One of Kitsunoh's best ability is its speed and being paralysed just gives it barriers and would make you lose your role to pivot with U-turn.

I've also seen many versatile options on Kitsunoh such as memento instead of Will-O-Wisp in order to take out set-up sweepers such as Crucibelle or threats such as Colossoil.
 
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emma

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i added memento and limber to oo

i will wait to add wishtech or replace another set or w/e until i get an official confirmation from qc
 
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