Jirachi Discussion

The thing is, if it uses Body Slam, it gets set up on by Giratina-o, (assuming Wish/Protect/U-turn/(Debated move), and if it goes for Ice Punch, it's just Groudon bait. Using Toxic makes it all but useless against steels. This set really has 4-move syndrome. Using Substitute would only contribute to this, although I guess it could have some merit on Crunchatize Me's set, but why would Jirachi want a Sub? It doesn't really fear status, and you're going to be switching out of a Groudon/Rayquaza anyways, since you have to give up the move you would hit them with for sub.
 
I don't think Jirachi is overall strong enough to do much besides paralyze one guy at most. It does act as a good check to fast, unscarfed guys like Latias and Latios who threaten you with Calm Minds or to flinch Wobbuffets or Rayquazas.

Yes, you could go for Body Slam or Thunder Wave, but I think Jirachi's real purpose on a team is to trick a scarf onto a wall (to help a set-up) or to eliminate faster threats such as Darkrai.
 
I'm testing Ice Punch, Toxic, Wish-Protect on it now, and I am quiet satisfied by the results it scores. Prediction can replace u-turn to an extent and ice Punch won't allow Rayquaza or Giratina with substitute set up on you, while Toxic is good against threats like Palkia and Latias. Also choiced Dialga can be scouted with Wish and Protect, depending on the attck it uses you can switch to your own dragon or stay and waste its pp.
 

shrang

General Kenobi
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I like the 252 special defense/252 hp Jirachi with Toxic, Wish, Protect, U-turn
It will check any Lati@s without Refresh ( if they do have refresh uturn to a revenger like Garchomp or a proper counter) even hidden power fire won´t hurt to much max special attack Latias does 36.14% - 43.07% and Latios 44.55% - 52.97%.
Even a mixed Rayquaza won´t be able to ohko it with Fire Blast (73.76% - 87.13%)
And Sd quaza with Overheat will do laughable 58.91% - 69.80%.
To sum up, Jirachi is an excellent supporter in ubers and the perfect teammate for any dragon without recovery (gira-o, Palkia, Chomp..)
I've fought that thing, and it really pissed me off. The thing just wouldn't die. I think the only thing that stopped this thing being an outright pain was the fact that I had Ho-oh on my team and it was Sunny.
 
Couldn't jirachi use a more support-oriented set that doesn't involve toxic? Say something like this that would scout item choices:

Jirachi @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 Spe/4 SpDef
Timid nature

Substitute
Icy Wind
U-turn
Wish/Grass Knot

Its primary purpose is to come in vs. something that can be scared off by it and set up a sub (or come in on blissey that you know run toxic or something like giratina who won't be able to break its subs). The key thing about the move choices is that Icy Wind will let you scout items of various switch-ins, depending on the order of your u-turn (and means you can confirm a choice scarf on a lot of things depending on whether they outspeed you after the -1 or not on faster scarfers like mewtwo). I could see this pairing well with wobbuffet and with revengers with type advantages, especially since you're scouting choice items beforehand so you can know for sure that it's a safe switch. It would also slow down lati@s switch-ins enough to let jirachi u-turn to safety and let a 252spe adamant bandtar get a pursuit off on them before tanking an extra hit (or any at all since I'd think a lot of lati@s would set up calm minds vs. a jirachi), which is a very safe way to take them down. This could open up a sweep for cro-ogre or specs kyogre since it's a very nice way to lure in and finish off lati@s. Icy wind also has the benefit of safely 2hko'ing any x4 weak dragon that's locked into outrage or switch-ins, and can even allow you to scout item choice on palkia that opt to use lustrous orb (or a 50% chance of finding out that palkia's scarfed, in which case you can go to wobbuffet and be done with it).

The main benefit of a set like this would just be the ability to scout items, keeping some bulk, and letting you get the jump on lots of scarfers and safeguarding yourself against dumb sets like yache sd chomp, which I don't think has been seen in a long time...but it just keeps a lot of crap under control and would give a team of slower sweepers some nice support while forcing switches.

lol late edit:

Those choices for the last slot are really difficult to decide on: Grass Knot would give you a 2hko on Groudon and Wish could give support to your switch-in which would help a lot with wobbuffet in particular.
 

Pirika

O boxeador revolucionário
is an Artist Alumnus
I think a set using Healing Wish could be very useful in ubers. Giving paralyze support and healing things like a life-orb or burned sweeper for a second sweep in the late game.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
Impish nature

-Body Slam
-Fire Punch
-Iron Head/Wish
-Healing Wish

This could be quite useful with Choice Spec/Scarf Kyogre. Kyogre can be used as a lead or a wall-breaker in the beggining of the game, removing things like Blissey (2HKOed by a full health Water Spout) or Latias (2HKOed with Ice Beam).
Jirachi can paralyze part of the opponent's team with body slam and use Healing Wish to restore Kyogre for a second sweep. Few teams will be able to handle a Choice Specs Kyogre using a full health Water Spout in the late game, specially when part of the team is paralyzed.
Things like Life Orb Rayquaza could work in a similar way. Wall breaking in the beginning of the game and sweeping after the Healing Wish.
 
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Serene Grace
236 HP / 180 Spe / 80 SDef / 14 Def
Jolly

Body Slam
Reflect
Light Screen
Healing Wish

This set makes a very effective partner for the rather underrated Dragon Dance Tyranitar, paralyzing two of its major counters, Garchomp and Groudon. Stealth Rock and Spikes support is reccomended to to help Tyranitar finish weakened Garchomp and Groudon after a boost. You can use DS early game and attempt to break through their walls with Tyranitar or Lucario, since they share counters and checks, and replentish your health to 100% and remove all effects from Status with one move, add Paralysis support and both screens, setting up should be easy.

Tyranitar @ Life Orb
Sandstream
108 HP / 148 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly

Dragon Dance
Crunch
Stone Edge
Taunt / Earthquake

Standard Dragon Dance set, although a lure to Scizor is highly reccomended, HP Fire Latias or SD Dragon Claw Rayquaza are able to lure and beat Scizor, one of the few Pokemon capable of stopping this after a boost. If Jirachi manages to cripple Garchomp, it will be likely going to KOd after a boost.
Dragon Dance Boosted LO Crunch vs Standard Scarf Chomp
511 Atk vs 226 Def & 358 HP (80 Base Power): 252 - 297 (70.39% - 82.96%)

Dragon Dance Boosted LO Crunch vs Rock Polish Groudon
511 Atk vs 318 Def & 369 HP (80 Base Power): 178 - 211 (48.24% - 57.18%)

Dragon Dance Boosted LO Crunch vs Supporting Groudon
511 Atk vs 324 Def & 404 HP (80 Base Power): 177 - 208 (43.81
% - 51.49%)

Add Spikes and Stealth Rock damage plus Jirachi´s light Body Slam damage input and you have a great Pokemon to base a team around.​
 
i would like to say that iron head is good move to use on the wish support set over protect. while it may not have the 100% chance of protecting yourself from the attack unlike protect (its 70% factoring paralysis), iron allows jirachi to hit a good amount of things for damage including mewtwo, darkrai, raquaza etc.
 
does anyone know what the final ruling is on Draco Meteor being a useable move on Shoddy? and if it's no, does that make Jirachis with DM in Wi-Fi banned?
 

Theorymon

Have a wonderful day, wahoo!
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
does anyone know what the final ruling is on Draco Meteor being a useable move on Shoddy? and if it's no, does that make Jirachis with DM in Wi-Fi banned?
Draco Meteor is indeed a usable move on Jirachi in Shoddy. In fact, I tested Draco Meteor on a Life Orb Jirachi set, and found it useful because in additon to still OHKOing Rayquaza after SR and Garchomp (it does the same amount of damage as Hidden Power Ice), it also sometimes OHKOed Palkia after SR and did a massive amount of damage to Giratina-O. I'll post the set later when I find it.
 
an expert belt set with draco meteor / HP fire / body slam / iron head (or some other moves after the first two) seems very interesting, luring in and devastating both dragons AND scizor!
 

Delta 2777

Machampion
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 10 Champion
It should be noted that Thunder is a very useful move on Ubers Jirachi, especialy since it is boosted to 100% accuracy in rain (Kyogre) and has a 60% chance to paralyze. Thanks to this, Jirachi can paralyze its opponents reliably without using the damageless Thunder Wave or the weak Body Slam. It should be noted that the rain provided by Kyogre also removes Jirachi's Fire weakness, allowing it to take the hits of Pokemon such as Fire Blast Dialga much better.
 
It should be noted that Thunder is a very useful move on Ubers Jirachi, especialy since it is boosted to 100% accuracy in rain (Kyogre) and has a 60% chance to paralyze. Thanks to this, Jirachi can paralyze its opponents reliably without using the damageless Thunder Wave or the weak Body Slam. It should be noted that the rain provided by Kyogre also removes Jirachi's Fire weakness, allowing it to take the hits of Pokemon such as Fire Blast Dialga much better.
Sun is more prevalent in the upper stages of the ladder, and Garchomp says hi to your thunders. Thunder and Grass knot would be redundant coverage, just to cover Groudon, so I wouldn't use thunder at all.
 

Delta 2777

Machampion
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 10 Champion
Sun is more prevalent in the upper stages of the ladder, and Garchomp says hi to your thunders. Thunder and Grass knot would be redundant coverage, just to cover Groudon, so I wouldn't use thunder at all.
Just because sun is more prevailent doesn't stop you from throwing a Kyogre on your team; sure Garchomp (who isn't even that common) and Groudon can switch in on your Thunders, but why is running Grass Knot even that important? SpecsOgre will still OHKO with Surf (and isn't OHKO'd), as well as Groudon (who also isn't OHKO'd). Jirachi shouldn't even be staying in on Garchomp in the first place. Thunder meanwhile still hits Kyogre, along with Shaymin-S, Ho-Oh, Lugia, and Mew[two]. Combine that with the fact that you no longer need to run Thunder Wave/Body Slam, and you have another option for that last slot, which is very important for the versatile Jirachi, whose movepool consists of Iron Head, U-Turn, Wish, Protect, Grass Knot, Draco Meteor, Ice Punch/HP [Ice], Reflect/Light Screen, or even Stealth Rock, and Thunder is more than just viable but even a standard when used on a team with Kyogre.

EDIT: I disagree with you ultimifier, but I suppose that's just my personal opinion.
 
Just because sun is more prevailent doesn't stop you from throwing a Kyogre on your team; sure Garchomp (who isn't even that common) and Groudon can switch in on your Thunders, but why is running Grass Knot even that important? SpecsOgre will still OHKO with Surf (and isn't OHKO'd), as well as Groudon (who also isn't OHKO'd). Jirachi shouldn't even be staying in on Garchomp in the first place. Thunder meanwhile still hits Kyogre, along with Shaymin-S, Ho-Oh, Lugia, and Mew[two]. Combine that with the fact that you no longer need to run Thunder Wave/Body Slam, and you have another option for that last slot, which is very important for the versatile Jirachi, whose movepool consists of Iron Head, U-Turn, Wish, Protect, Grass Knot, Draco Meteor, Ice Punch/HP [Ice], Reflect/Light Screen, or even Stealth Rock, and Thunder is more than just viable but even a standard when used on a team with Kyogre.
But body slam hits garhcomp, groudon, AND all of the bolded pokemon as well. So thunder vs body slam from my analysis.

Thunder: (pros)
-Hits ginatina-o
-100% accuracy when raining
-Hits kyogre, lugia, and manaphy for SE damage.
(cons)
-Useless in sun
-allows free switch for groudon and garchomp
-requires you to run kyogre.

while body slam ALWAYS has 100% accuracy, exchanges hitting giratina for hitting garchomp and groudon, and does NOT require you to run kyogre for it to be useful.

Body Slam >> Thunder
 
Draco Meteor is indeed a usable move on Jirachi in Shoddy. In fact, I tested Draco Meteor on a Life Orb Jirachi set, and found it useful because in additon to still OHKOing Rayquaza after SR and Garchomp (it does the same amount of damage as Hidden Power Ice), it also sometimes OHKOed Palkia after SR and did a massive amount of damage to Giratina-O. I'll post the set later when I find it.
I ran this set with moderate success:

Jirachi@Life orb
40 hp/252 SpA/216 spe timid
-Draco meteor
-Calm mind
-Grass knot
-Hp fire

This Jirachi is meant to beat Jolly ray and below, and since I lose to Palkia all the time there's no point in running max speed. The hp is there for some bulk, max special attack is obvious. Grass knot is for Kyogre and Groudon mostly, but can also be used for Palkia that are weakened. Hp fire is to ensure that Forretress and Scizor can't switch in on me, unless it's raining or I've used draco.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top