SM Ubers Gothitelle's Hell.




Teambuilding Process

The team started as a joke team. I started with Gothitelle and Whimsicott. Whimsicott's job, at first, was to Memento or Leech Seed various mons to help out Gothitelle. I needed another Fairy type because Gothitelle couldn't do anything against Dark type mons or against Marshadow (spectral thief). Hazards are never enough and I decided to use a suicide lead, Deoxys-Speed. You know the rule of Ubers: if you don't run Primal Groudon, your team is bad. I decided to run it also to kill Steel types that can destroy my team. Then I decided to go with Mega Lucario to remove other Dark types, but also to counter Fairy types such as Xerneas. While testing, I saw that Whimsicott doesn't work (remember, it was a joke team at first), and I decided to go with Marshadow to have some good priority, but also to steal boosts from SD Arceus.


The Team


Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Tickle
- Rest
Gothitelle, Gothitelle, Gothitelle. This thing is hell. I usually make this thing go on mons that can't kill it (not considering crits, of course), and set up, even if there are Dark types or Marshadow, although you can't do a proper sweep with those mons still alive. Tickle is mostly to lower opponents' attack, especially in non-SD Primal Groudon sets. Rest is the best form of recovery, especially because if I didn't have Rest, Toxic can put this thing on a timer and destroy it.


Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Toxic
- Recover
- Earth Power
Arceus-Fairy was my best choice here. I had to find a way to kill Yveltal, Darkrai and Marshadow, the main Gothitelle threats. Typical set here, except for the fact that I don't have Defog since I don't have any mons weak to hazards (except sticky webs).


Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
Another typical set, really. I wanted to have something that could set up hazards and be able to kill threats more easily (especially Ho-Oh and Lugia). This thing, though, can also put me in a position of disadvantage if somebody wants to go with Xerneas first turn, especially if I didn't put Taunt (I had Magic Coat before, and I would get absolutely destroyed by Xerneas on first turn).


Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Fire Punch
- Precipice Blades
Rule of Ubers number 1: If your team doesn't have Groudon-Primal, it will struggle (or straight up suck).
Really though, this thing is a beast. If you set up, you're guaranteed atleast 1 kills. Just be prepared for Precipice Blades missing, and you're perfect. This thing was needed mainly because of Steel Types and to resist atleast one Moonblast from Xerneas.


Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Tail
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
Xerneas can really be a problem, therefore I needed this. Also, it counters Nasty Plot + Sludge Bomb Darkrai, which also is a problem as Gothitelle can't hit it, Arceus gets beaten by Sludge Bomb (it can survive, but I would still lose a mon most cases). Lucario is the only one that can reliably counter it (before I had Marshadow, that is) in this team. Even though I always get flinched by Dark Pulse. I guess that's another story.


Marshadow @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Spectral Thief
Marshadow was my replacement for Whimsicott. It's one of the best pokemon on the tier and destroys almost every setupping mon in the tier. Also, counters the rare Arceus Ghost.



Darkrai can annoy me, especially if it puts to sleep Arceus-Fairy. Counter it w/ Mega Lucario or Marshadow, however, beware of Nasty Plot sets vs. Lucario. If you get flinched it's almost game over. Groudon works too.



First turn Xerneas can be a problem as it goes instantly to Geomancy. Best way to counter is Taunt with Deoxys, or, if it's late in the game (or just not first turn), go with Lucario and hope that Iron Tail hits. Again, Groudon works too, but still gets 2hko'd by Moonblast.​


Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Tickle
- Rest

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Toxic
- Recover
- Earth Power

Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Fire Punch
- Precipice Blades

Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Tail
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance

Marshadow @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Spectral Thief
 

in the hills

spreading confusion
is a Top Artistis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Your Goth set isn't optimal. Either switch Tickle for Charm for the -2 Attack or switch Psychic for Psyshock to abuse Tickle's Defense drop.

Also ur Deo-S EVs make no sense, use max HP or max Att you don't even have a special move

I can see most PDon sets being a large threat to ur team with Fairyceus as your only defensive check and ur only way to beat it offensively is to chip it.
 
Your Goth set isn't optimal. Either switch Tickle for Charm for the -2 Attack or switch Psychic for Psyshock to abuse Tickle's Defense drop.

Also ur Deo-S EVs make no sense, use max HP or max Att you don't even have a special move

I can see most PDon sets being a large threat to ur team with Fairyceus as your only defensive check and ur only way to beat it offensively is to chip it.
I forgot the move that I should've used, I actually wanted to use Charm, my bad.

Going to fix the Deoxys spread, what happened was that I wanted to run it with PBoost, then I probably forgot lol

I'm going to try to find a good way to counter PDon (although it hasn't been a huge issue for me rn).

ty
 

Stoward

Ah, you're finally awake
Hi, interesting team you have there. Personally I've never used a team with Gothitelle, and I plan on keeping it that way, however it's always nice to see a mon that's seeing no use in ubers get some love... I guess :P I have noticed that this team is pressured quite easily by Ground types, namely Arceus Ground and Primal Groudon, especially the Dual Dance set. You have also mentioned that your team struggles with dealing with Xerneas and also Darkrai (which honestly is a mon that I haven't even considered to be a threat worth mentioning since it's fall from grace in SM), on another note, I can see this team struggling with Ho-oh, since nothing really has the right coverage to hit it super-effectively, and due to your Primal Groudon running an offensive set, I can see Kyogre being quite threatening. Personally I think that the larger issue here is the fact that this team is incredibly easily pressured by offense, as you have 0 speed control, nor do you have anything bulky enough to actually check anything once anything sets up. I will provide some calcs for these below. Although the majority of your team has a fair bit of offensive pressure, so you could argue that your opponent is going to have a hard time setting up, I feel that the way that you've set up your Gothitelle + Fairyceus core basically drains momentum and invites mons to set up. Also I dislike the concept of a suicide lead on this, since it ultimately puts you in a 5v6 situation, so therefore if you were to run a suicide lead, you'd need to keep offensive pressure at all times, however with the core that I mentioned earlier, you're definitely going to struggle to do that. However, despite these criticisms that I mentioned earlier, I do believe that it would only take a few changes to make this team very solid.

Calcs in Red show the damage that opposing mons can do to you, whereas calcs in Blue show the damage that you can do to them. Naturally I haven't included calcs that don't show that these mons are threats (e.g How much damage your primal groudon would do to an opposing primal Groudon). So Blue calcs ultimately show the mons that easily enable the opposing mon to set up.

VS PRIMAL GROUDON
+2 240+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 466-550 (104.9 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Arceus-Fairy Earth Power vs. 168 HP / 36 SpD Groudon-Primal: 160-190 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 240+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Gothitelle: 429-505 (124.7 - 146.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Gothitelle Psychic vs. 168 HP / 36 SpD Groudon-Primal: 97-115 (25.3 - 30%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 240+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 597-703 (247.7 - 291.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 240+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 726-854 (212.9 - 250.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 240+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario-Mega: 1218-1434 (433.4 - 510.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 240+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marshadow: 658-775 (204.9 - 241.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

VS XERNEAS
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Gothitelle: 394-465 (114.5 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. +4 252 HP / 64 SpD Gothitelle: 132-156 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Gothitelle Psychic vs. 72 HP / 100 SpD Xerneas: 85-102 (20.6 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Oh and just for the sake of it
+4 0 SpA Gothitelle Psychic vs. +2 72 HP / 100 SpD Xerneas: 127-151 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- 65.1% chance to 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. +4 252 HP / 64 SpD Gothitelle: 132-156 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (Also have to mention that rest basically allows free setup)
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 390-459 (87.8 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Groudon-Primal: 314-370 (92 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario-Mega: 606-714 (215.6 - 254%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marshadow: 996-1172 (310.2 - 365.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

VS MEGA SALAMENCE
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Gothitelle: 330-388 (95.9 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Gothitelle Psychic vs. 44 HP / 0 SpD Salamence-Mega: 102-121 (29.8 - 35.3%) -- 24.1% chance to 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 358-423 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 459-540 (190.4 - 224%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 279-328 (81.8 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Fire Punch vs. 44 HP / 0 Def Salamence-Mega in Harsh Sunshine: 103-122 (30.1 - 35.6%) -- 33.1% chance to 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario-Mega: 466-550 (165.8 - 195.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Marshadow: 1122-1322 (349.5 - 411.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
VS HO-OH
136+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Gothitelle: 203-239 (59 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Gothitelle Psychic vs. 224 HP / 72 SpD Ho-Oh: 61-73 (14.9 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO
136+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 220-261 (49.5 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

4 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 224 HP / 72 SpD Ho-Oh: 50-59 (12.2 - 14.4%) -- possible 7HKO
136+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 282-333 (117 - 138.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0- Atk Deoxys-Speed Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 66-78 (16.1 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO
136+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 172-203 (50.4 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Fire Punch vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh in Harsh Sunshine: 141-167 (34.4 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

VS ARCEUS GROUND

252 Atk Arceus-Ground Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Gothitelle: 219-258 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 264-312 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 130-154 (34.1 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 204-242 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 169-199 (70.1 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Deoxys-Speed Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Ground: 35-42 (9.1 - 11%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario-Mega: 344-408 (122.4 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Marshadow: 207-244 (64.4 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Arceus-Ground Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Marshadow: 373-439 (116.1 - 136.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

VS MARSHADOW
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Gothitelle: 338-398 (98.2 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 397-468 (89.4 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 307-363 (90 - 106.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 1014-1194 (420.7 - 495.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario-Mega: 636-750 (226.3 - 266.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

VS KYOGRE
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Gothitelle in Heavy Rain: 330-388 (95.9 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Gothitelle Psychic vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 61-73 (15.8 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy in Heavy Rain: 324-382 (72.9 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 102-120 (26.4 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Groudon-Primal: 150-177 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed in Heavy Rain: 414-487 (171.7 - 202%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- Atk Deoxys-Speed Knock Off vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Kyogre-Primal: 45-53 (11.6 - 13.7%) -- possible 8HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario-Mega in Heavy Rain: 505-595 (179.7 - 211.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marshadow in Heavy Rain: 414-487 (128.9 - 151.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO


MAJOR CHANGES
>

As I mentioned earlier, I feel like having a suicide lead on this team puts you at a disadvantageous situation. Adding Kyogre to this team provides you with a solid wallbreaker, as well as providing you with answers to Ho-oh, Mega Salamence, and Arceus Ground. It also can force out Primal Groudon by bringing in rain and has a chance to OHKO Xerneas pre-setup. The set I had in mind for you was the standard offensive calm mind set, that I've provided you with below:
Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder


MINOR CHANGES


The only real issue that I had with your arceus forme is that I believe that the EVs are sub-optimal. The set that I've provided you allows you to outspeed Jolly Mega Lucario, but gives you enough bulk to check physically threatening mons such as Mega Salamence and Marshadow. This EV change can be shown below:

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Recover
- Judgment
- Toxic



Might not seem like a major change, but I didn't really know what your EVs for Gothitelle were for, so I ripped the spread straight from the XY analysis. I thought that psyshock would be more useful - Especially against calm mind setters like Xerenas and Kyogre. Charm lowers your opponent's physical attack, therefore you're less weak to physical attackers.
Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Rest
- Charm



As much as I'm a huge fan of the double dance Primal Groudon set, After I removed your suicide lead, I had to assign stealth rock to one of your pokemon, and Primal Groudon seemed like the most appropriate one. Also since my changes don't give you a decent Xerneas check so far, I felt the need to make your Primal Groudon set into a bulkier one anyway. The set I had in mind was the Offensive Stealth Rock set from the analysis. 152 HP EVs with 44 Special Defense EVs allow it to while still survive a +2 Focus Blast from Xerneas and +1 Double-Edge from Adamant Mega Salamence after Stealth Rock. 76 Speed EVs allow it to outspeed everything up to uninvested Yveltal and Xerneas and the remaining EVs are placed into attack so that Primal Groudon can 2HKO physically bulky Xerneas, Max Defense Kyogre and OHKO offensive Primal Groudon sets. Dragon Tail is also to deal with set-up sweepers, especially Mega Salamence and Rayquaza, as well as annoy both Giratina formes. Stone Edge is added so that you're able to effectively deal with Ho-oh.

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 236 Atk / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Tail
- Stone Edge



Honestly don't really have any issues with your Marshadow set, other than that I have to question why you've got 30 IVs in attack, it seems unnecessary. It was probably an error, but a brilliant excuse for me to add a picture of Marshadow to this rate :P I do feel like Rock Tomb could be a nice option though in order to punish ho-oh or anything that outspeeds Marshadow, but HP ice is honestly fine, since it hits Zygarde and Mega Salamence pretty hard, and so far your only Zygarde answer is Kyogre. Anyway, I really enjoyed rating this team and I hope you enjoy using it with its changes. If you have any questions, feel free to ask :)

Oh yeah and last of all
Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Rest
- Charm

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Recover
- Judgment
- Toxic

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 236 Atk / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Tail
- Stone Edge

Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Tail
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance

Marshadow @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hidden Power [Ice]/Rock Tomb
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Spectral Thief

Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Origin Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Thunder


A further note to add is that I found Gothitelle + fairyceus to be quite underwhelming on this team when I was testing it. Ideally I feel like replacing these with Choice Scarf Yveltal + Groundeus, since you'd still be checking opposing Yveltals, Ghost Types such as Mega Gengar and Marshadow as well as having a more solid answer to Primal Groudon. However I'm aware that this would change how you originally intended for the team to run. Personally I believe that Gothitelle doesn't really do that well in ubers, but if it were to be used, it'd belong on a more defensive playstlyle such as balance or stall, but at the end of the day, it's up to you, and I wish you good luck using that team :)
 
Last edited:
Hi, interesting team you have there. Personally I've never used a team with Gothitelle, and I plan on keeping it that way, however it's always nice to see a mon that's seeing no use in ubers get some love... I guess :P I have noticed that this team is pressured quite easily by Ground types, namely Arceus Ground and Primal Groudon, especially the Dual Dance set. You have also mentioned that your team struggles with dealing with Xerneas and also Darkrai (which honestly is a mon that I haven't even considered to be a threat worth mentioning since it's fall from grace in SM) [It's kinda used around 1300, so I guess I can consider it a threat], on another note, I can see this team struggling with Ho-oh, since nothing really has the right coverage to hit it super-effectively, and due to your Primal Groudon running an offensive set, I can see Kyogre being quite threatening. Personally I think that the larger issue here is the fact that this team is incredibly easily pressured by offense, as you have 0 speed control, nor do you have anything bulky enough to actually check anything once anything sets up. I will provide some calcs for these below. Although the majority of your team has a fair bit of offensive pressure, so you could argue that your opponent is going to have a hard time setting up, I feel that the way that you've set up your Gothitelle + Fairyceus [The fact is that it's one of the best cores for Gothitelle as it allows to counter most things (except Steel Types) that don't allow Gothitelle to sweep (it can't hit Dark Types), as much as it's true, I don't know what I should put. Maybe Xerneas? I don't know lol]core basically drains momentum and invites mons to set up. Also I dislike the concept of a suicide lead on this, since it ultimately puts you in a 5v6 situation [You're right, however Rocks/Spikes are still great to have, especially against Lugias], so therefore if you were to run a suicide lead, you'd need to keep offensive pressure at all times, however with the core that I mentioned earlier, you're definitely going to struggle to do that. However, despite these criticisms that I mentioned earlier, I do believe that it would only take a few changes to make this team very solid.

Calcs in Red show the damage that opposing mons can do to you, whereas calcs in Blue show the damage that you can do to them. Naturally I haven't included calcs that don't show that these mons are threats (e.g How much damage your primal groudon would do to an opposing primal Groudon). So Blue calcs ultimately show the mons that easily enable the opposing mon to set up.

VS PRIMAL GROUDON
+2 240+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 466-550 (104.9 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Arceus-Fairy Earth Power vs. 168 HP / 36 SpD Groudon-Primal: 160-190 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 240+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Gothitelle: 429-505 (124.7 - 146.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Gothitelle Psychic vs. 168 HP / 36 SpD Groudon-Primal: 97-115 (25.3 - 30%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 240+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 597-703 (247.7 - 291.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 240+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 726-854 (212.9 - 250.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 240+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario-Mega: 1218-1434 (433.4 - 510.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 240+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marshadow: 658-775 (204.9 - 241.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

VS XERNEAS
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Gothitelle: 394-465 (114.5 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. +4 252 HP / 64 SpD Gothitelle: 132-156 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Gothitelle Psychic vs. 72 HP / 100 SpD Xerneas: 85-102 (20.6 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Oh and just for the sake of it
+4 0 SpA Gothitelle Psychic vs. +2 72 HP / 100 SpD Xerneas: 127-151 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- 65.1% chance to 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. +4 252 HP / 64 SpD Gothitelle: 132-156 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (Also have to mention that rest basically allows free setup) [I agree, but I need a good recover move. Sadly it's the only one that's viable (except protect and leftovers)]
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 390-459 (87.8 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Groudon-Primal: 314-370 (92 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario-Mega: 606-714 (215.6 - 254%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marshadow: 996-1172 (310.2 - 365.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

VS MEGA SALAMENCE
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Gothitelle: 330-388 (95.9 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Gothitelle Psychic vs. 44 HP / 0 SpD Salamence-Mega: 102-121 (29.8 - 35.3%) -- 24.1% chance to 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 358-423 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 459-540 (190.4 - 224%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 279-328 (81.8 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Fire Punch vs. 44 HP / 0 Def Salamence-Mega in Harsh Sunshine: 103-122 (30.1 - 35.6%) -- 33.1% chance to 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario-Mega: 466-550 (165.8 - 195.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Marshadow: 1122-1322 (349.5 - 411.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
VS HO-OH
136+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Gothitelle: 203-239 (59 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Gothitelle Psychic vs. 224 HP / 72 SpD Ho-Oh: 61-73 (14.9 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO
136+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 220-261 (49.5 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

4 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 224 HP / 72 SpD Ho-Oh: 50-59 (12.2 - 14.4%) -- possible 7HKO
136+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 282-333 (117 - 138.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0- Atk Deoxys-Speed Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 66-78 (16.1 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO
136+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 172-203 (50.4 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Fire Punch vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh in Harsh Sunshine: 141-167 (34.4 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

VS ARCEUS GROUND

252 Atk Arceus-Ground Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Gothitelle: 219-258 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 264-312 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 130-154 (34.1 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 204-242 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 169-199 (70.1 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Deoxys-Speed Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Ground: 35-42 (9.1 - 11%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario-Mega: 344-408 (122.4 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Marshadow: 207-244 (64.4 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Arceus-Ground Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Marshadow: 373-439 (116.1 - 136.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

VS MARSHADOW
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Gothitelle: 338-398 (98.2 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 397-468 (89.4 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 307-363 (90 - 106.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 1014-1194 (420.7 - 495.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Marshadow Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario-Mega: 636-750 (226.3 - 266.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

VS KYOGRE
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Gothitelle in Heavy Rain: 330-388 (95.9 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Gothitelle Psychic vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 61-73 (15.8 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy in Heavy Rain: 324-382 (72.9 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 102-120 (26.4 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Groudon-Primal: 150-177 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Speed in Heavy Rain: 414-487 (171.7 - 202%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- Atk Deoxys-Speed Knock Off vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Kyogre-Primal: 45-53 (11.6 - 13.7%) -- possible 8HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario-Mega in Heavy Rain: 505-595 (179.7 - 211.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marshadow in Heavy Rain: 414-487 (128.9 - 151.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO


MAJOR CHANGES
>

As I mentioned earlier, I feel like having a suicide lead on this team puts you at a disadvantageous situation. Adding Kyogre to this team provides you with a solid wallbreaker, as well as providing you with answers to Ho-oh, Mega Salamence, and Arceus Ground. It also can force out Primal Groudon by bringing in rain and has a chance to OHKO Xerneas pre-setup. The set I had in mind for you was the standard offensive calm mind set, that I've provided you with below:
Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

[I see your point, but I'd prefer having rocks up. I could change Groudon's set to a RockPolish set, maybe?]

MINOR CHANGES


The only real issue that I had with your arceus forme is that I believe that the EVs are sub-optimal. The set that I've provided you allows you to outspeed Jolly Mega Lucario, but gives you enough bulk to check physically threatening mons such as Mega Salamence and Marshadow. This EV change can be shown below:

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Recover
- Judgment
- Toxic

[Gonna change, ty.]

Might not seem like a major change, but I didn't really know what your EVs for Gothitelle were for, so I ripped the spread straight from the XY analysis. I thought that psyshock would be more useful - Especially against calm mind setters like Xerenas and Kyogre. Charm lowers your opponent's physical attack, therefore you're less weak to physical attackers.
Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Rest
- Charm

[They're to have better phys bulk. You know, CM only boosts Sp. Def so investing in Defense isn't bad].


As much as I'm a huge fan of the double dance Primal Groudon set, After I removed your suicide lead, I had to assign stealth rock to one of your pokemon, and Primal Groudon seemed like the most appropriate one. Also since my changes don't give you a decent Xerneas check so far, I felt the need to make your Primal Groudon set into a bulkier one anyway. The set I had in mind was the Offensive Stealth Rock set from the analysis. 152 HP EVs with 44 Special Defense EVs allow it to while still survive a +2 Focus Blast from Xerneas and +1 Double-Edge from Adamant Mega Salamence after Stealth Rock. 76 Speed EVs allow it to outspeed everything up to uninvested Yveltal and Xerneas and the remaining EVs are placed into attack so that Primal Groudon can 2HKO physically bulky Xerneas, Max Defense Kyogre and OHKO offensive Primal Groudon sets. Dragon Tail is also to deal with set-up sweepers, especially Mega Salamence and Rayquaza, as well as annoy both Giratina formes. Stone Edge is added so that you're able to effectively deal with Ho-oh.
[Ah perfect, although I'd like something maybe with rock polish. Going to test both (w/rock polish and non rock polish)].
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 236 Atk / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Tail
- Stone Edge



Honestly don't really have any issues with your Marshadow set, other than that I have to question why you've got 30 IVs in attack, it seems unnecessary. It was probably an error, but a brilliant excuse for me to add a picture of Marshadow to this rate :P I do feel like Rock Tomb could be a nice option though in order to punish ho-oh or anything that outspeeds Marshadow, but HP ice is honestly fine, since it hits Zygarde and Mega Salamence pretty hard, and so far your only Zygarde answer is Kyogre. Anyway, I really enjoyed rating this team and I hope you enjoy using it with its changes. If you have any questions, feel free to ask :)
[30 IVs in Atk are for HP Ice. I see your point with Ho-Oh, though].
Oh yeah and last of all
Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Rest
- Charm

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Recover
- Judgment
- Toxic

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 236 Atk / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Dragon Tail
- Stone Edge

Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Iron Tail
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance

Marshadow @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hidden Power [Ice]/Rock Tomb
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Spectral Thief

Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Origin Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Thunder


A further note to add is that I found Gothitelle + fairyceus to be quite underwhelming on this team when I was testing it. Ideally I feel like replacing these with Choice Scarf Yveltal + Groundeus, since you'd still be checking opposing Yveltals, Ghost Types such as Mega Gengar and Marshadow as well as having a more solid answer to Primal Groudon. However I'm aware that this would change how you originally intended for the team to run. Personally I believe that Gothitelle doesn't really do that well in ubers, but if it were to be used, it'd belong on a more defensive playstlyle such as balance or stall, but at the end of the day, it's up to you, and I wish you good luck using that team :)
[Honestly I don't really wanna remove Gothitelle, since it's what the team is built around lol, I find the core to be good but that gets threatened by Mega Gengar, that's my only fear. You're right about Groudon.]
thanks! replies in bold and in []
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
The structure of this team is not effective. Deoxys-S is a suicide setter that must rely on its teammates to ensure that the opponent cannot Defog / Spin. Gothitelle is a Pokemon that takes a very long time to break down support Arceus - the greatest threat to Deoxys-S' purpose. To strip it down, you're trading a Pokemon to get hazards, and then you may be able to trap that support Arceus in exchange for losing your hazards. Now your hazards are gone forever. It would make much more sense to have a Pokemon that can set again after the support Arc has been eliminated.

The way the structure wages the hazard war isn't the only quirk. This team has few to no options vs. Ground-types - common offensive types in the tier. You have no immunities, and not even a resistance. Offensive Ground-types target what they want and have free reign. This team has Ho-Oh and Kyogre problems too. You have Pokemon that let these threats in rather easily, and you have no swtich-ins. Again, they pressure what they want and just take KOs.

The problem isn't that Gothitelle has been slapped onto what is seemingly trying to by a Hyper Offense team (it would be more of a problem if offense was scarier than it is), it's more that the rest of the team doesn't accommodate covering tanky offensive mons. A structure that uses Mega Salamence over Mega Lucario and Ferrothorn over Deoxys-S, and SR allocated to P Don or Arceus-Fairy, while not flawless, is much much better than what is presented here and only changes two Pokemon. Another structure change that could work is Mega Salamence over Mega Lucario, Magearna over Deoxys-S, and using a water resisting Arceus.

Summary:
- Change Mega Lucario to Mega Salamence
- Change Deoxys-S to Ferrothorn
- Run Stealth Rock on Primal Groudon or Arceus-Fairy
or
- Change Mega Lucario to Mega Salamence
- Change Deoxys-S to Magearna
- Change Arceus-Fairy to Arceus-Water
- Run Stealth Rock on Primal Groudon

Once you've decided on how your team structure will change you can get more into the detail work of EVs and spreads. Start with the analysis standards (make sure Primal Groudon checks Xerneas well on the first structure) and detail from there. Good luck with the team.
 
The structure of this team is not effective. Deoxys-S is a suicide setter that must rely on its teammates to ensure that the opponent cannot Defog / Spin. Gothitelle is a Pokemon that takes a very long time to break down support Arceus - the greatest threat to Deoxys-S' purpose. To strip it down, you're trading a Pokemon to get hazards, and then you may be able to trap that support Arceus in exchange for losing your hazards. Now your hazards are gone forever. It would make much more sense to have a Pokemon that can set again after the support Arc has been eliminated.

The way the structure wages the hazard war isn't the only quirk. This team has few to no options vs. Ground-types - common offensive types in the tier. You have no immunities, and not even a resistance. Offensive Ground-types target what they want and have free reign. This team has Ho-Oh and Kyogre problems too. You have Pokemon that let these threats in rather easily, and you have no swtich-ins. Again, they pressure what they want and just take KOs.

The problem isn't that Gothitelle has been slapped onto what is seemingly trying to by a Hyper Offense team (it would be more of a problem if offense was scarier than it is), it's more that the rest of the team doesn't accommodate covering tanky offensive mons. A structure that uses Mega Salamence over Mega Lucario and Ferrothorn over Deoxys-S, and SR allocated to P Don or Arceus-Fairy, while not flawless, is much much better than what is presented here and only changes two Pokemon. Another structure change that could work is Mega Salamence over Mega Lucario, Magearna over Deoxys-S, and using a water resisting Arceus.

Summary:
- Change Mega Lucario to Mega Salamence
- Change Deoxys-S to Ferrothorn
- Run Stealth Rock on Primal Groudon or Arceus-Fairy
or
- Change Mega Lucario to Mega Salamence
- Change Deoxys-S to Magearna
- Change Arceus-Fairy to Arceus-Water
- Run Stealth Rock on Primal Groudon

Once you've decided on how your team structure will change you can get more into the detail work of EVs and spreads. Start with the analysis standards (make sure Primal Groudon checks Xerneas well on the first structure) and detail from there. Good luck with the team.
hello

i already put sr on pdon, didn't update the rmt. my bad.
i may try using ferrothorn, thanks for the suggestion.
i will try mega mence too. ty!

magearna is also another cool looking mon for the team especially for the help that it would give to gothitelle. ty
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top