[SM] CAP Viability Ranking Thread

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It's hard to take a post seriously when there are no real relevant examples to the actual metagame being played in (come on man this is CAP), and when your 1 counterexample, ferrothorn, obviously is going to beat gastro ???? So like, why would I ever send gastro in on that. But then I think, wait, if I get to late game I can sweep with gastro, or maybe I can get a clutch burn on something like zygarde so I don't get 6-0'd, or I can literally tank any move from basically any mon unless they run some obscure coverage like grass knot (again not popular in CAP because its absolute garbage to not run better coverage moves) and respond with a toxic + recover stall combo. And I forgot your mention of pyroak... It's a tanky mon, again, and does not run woodhammer, let alone grass stab.

Is Gastrodon S++++ like gen 6 Tomo, ofc not. But I do support its rise, and as more pokemon are released gastro gets better and better. Perhaps this can get revisited at a late time, but B- is definitely the lowest it should be at and there really is no debate to that. Please learn our metagame first before trying to take over our viability ranking thread.
 
gastro isn't just checked by everything; it straight up loses to anything it doesn't have a type advantage over, and even then sometimes it won't win (see: bloomdoom tran). every pokémon does have checks yes yes yes. not disputing that. however, virtually any pokémon can switch in to gastro with little fear and then heavily damage it. ferrothorn is a great example of pokémon which does not in fact lose momentum by switching into gastro; it loses pretty much 0 health and can then proceed to kill gastro, heal up w leech seed, or set hazards. the player who loses momentum is the gastro user who either must sack their supposed wall or concede hazards. plus, if hazards are up, gastro is no longer able to switch in to literally anything.

edit: ferro cannot get played by gastro no matter what. u cannot overpredict bc it's so passive. idek what "get played by" means in a pokémon sense, but that's not what gastro does to ferro lmao.
gastro isn't just checked by everything; it straight up loses to anything it doesn't have a type advantage over
I present to you: any electric type which doesn't decide to prepare specifically for gastro with HP grass. Although Ani described your attitude pretty well, ima have a look into your reasoning

By all accounts, less common physdef Gastrodon shouldn't check Garchomp and Gliscor although it commonly carries Ice Beam and if not that, Scald to wear at least Garchomp down. It shouldn't be able to check Non-LO TOmohawk, it shouldn't be able to check Mimikyu although it also has access to Clear Smog which is a viable set. By your assumption, the less common set of Gastrodon cannot check any of these Pokemon. Not mentioning SpDef or mixed wall which is the best set. You also fail to listen at all to good three-quarters of my argument. I mentioned that
rather in defensive terms, how many sets it can check, and with Gastrodon, theres a lot.
Gastrodon isn't an offensive Pokemon. It can be if it sets up enough curses but its made to switch in on other Pokemon and force those switches which are so easy to make, therefore baiting in the Ferrothorn and switching into Magnezone or Mega Medicham or Charizard. As before mentioned, Ferrothorn wins the 1v1, but puts itself in a bad situation because then you're face to face with a Zard, Magne, or Mega Medicham. And that's only using an example of a Pokmon who has a clear advantage over Gastrodon.

I agree with a lot of your points, Gastrodon is passive and it does mean a lot of things can switch into it without fear, but that doesn't mean it is a bad Pokemon that doesn't belong anywhere above C, it just means that it might not perform offensively, but can perform very well defensively, and if you can't tell the difference between those two, you're going to have a very hard time in Competitive Pokemon.
 
Why Gastro Sucks: An Essay

1. Poor bulk in relation to power creep

Gastro must invest fully into either def or spdef to check anything at all. Mixed def sets are essentially irrelevant as they fail to check/counter the things gastro really wants to switchin to, like MegaPert or AshNinja. For instance, MegaPert 2hkos mixdef gastro w EQ and LO Tomo 2hkos w hurricane.

252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Earthquake vs. 204 HP / 116 Def Gastrodon: 235-277 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Tomohawk Hurricane vs. 204 HP / 188+ SpD Gastrodon: 207-243 (50 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So, this essay will focus solely on entirely physdef and entirely spdef versions of gastro, both of which are fairly mediocre in general. Being forced to run fully invested in one stat or the other really limits Gastro as its main goal is to be a bulky blanket check for BO/balance. In this current generation, its ability to be a mixed wall suffers gretly due to power creep, not that it was particularly great in ORAS either. Physdef versions, while doing a decent job of checking threats like Mega Swampert and Zygarde, still lose to Lando T (SD adamant has a decent chance 2hko w EQ after rocks, +2ZFly/earth plate EQ both OHKO from full), Mega Medicham, Mega Mawile, and most other wallbreakers in the tier, even excluding those with a type advantage.

+2 252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 357-420 (83.8 - 98.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 355-418 (83.3 - 98.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 255-300 (59.8 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 235-277 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 387-458 (90.8 - 107.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Basically, any decently powerful attacker can 2HKO/OHKO after a boost. Gastro just dies to everything.

SpDef fairs a little bit better, but it still underwhelms in general. It cannot check boosted attackers at all and its only way to slow them down is clear smog, which is a necessity this gen as otherwise it can only toxic them. Quiver dancers like volc+aurumoth run straight through spdef gastro (giga+psyshock, respectively). Tail Glowers like manaphy and syclant can boost up and annihilate Gastro; admittedly, mana does need to be running energy ball, but gastro is still a shaky check. Basically; it cannot wall anything that can boost and barely survives vs strong, unboosted special attackers. Even scarf lele has a chance to 2hko. It cannot check anything except elecs reliably, as almost all relevant fire types commonly carry ways around it (solar beam char-y, giga volc, pyroak in general, grassium heatran, etc). This forces you to run a second fire check which makes teambuilding that much harder. Even weaker mons like kerfluffle can possibly 2hko gastro.

+3 252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 355-419 (83.3 - 98.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon in Psychic Terrain: 180-213 (42.2 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Kerfluffle Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 191-226 (44.8 - 53%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

In summary: Gastro doesnt wall much and it fails to be compress roles effectively.

2. Susceptibility to hazards, status, and knock off

Because Gastro only barely survives most attacks, any chip damage/lack of leftovers it encounters throughout the match means it becomes essentially useless as it is no longer an effective switchin. So, if gastro wants to switchin to something like Rotom to eat a hydro/volt switch, but it gets burned instead, it turns out to no longer be able to wall MegaPert, for example (assuming physdef). Toxicing gastro has an even worse effect for obvious reasons. Spikes, better in SM than in ORAS, have a similar effect, as gastro suddenly cannot switchin to many threats even if fully healthy. Please make note of the wall of calcs to follow:



252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 183-216 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage
252+ SpA Life Orb Tomohawk Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 192-227 (45 - 53.2%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 373-439 (87.5 - 103%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 181-214 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO after 2 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 169-200 (39.6 - 46.9%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery

The list goes on and on and on. Basically, Gastro loses to the few offensive mons it can actually check if statused/chipped in any way. Its bulk does not allow for any imperfect circumstances, which are virtually impossible to prevent.

3. Utter passivity
Gastro cannot kill anything ever. Spdef sets dont have room for anything but stabs/clear smog/recover which leave it walled by so much. Physdef sets can either run ice beam (brought up by ppl arguing for gastro rise but its shit dont use it) or toxic, which does what it always does. Basically, so much stuff can come in for free and do as it ishes vs Gastro. It serves as a momentum sinkhole on teams that dont rly want that. Offensively, its outclassed by everything from MegaPert to Seismotoad. Defensively, it struggles heavily in this meta.

0 SpA Gastrodon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 88-104 (21.7 - 25.7%) -- 0.9% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Gastrodon Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 194-230 (60.8 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Gastrodon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Landorus-Therian: 284-336 (74.3 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Gastro should drop to D if its gonna move at all. It is heavily outclassed, fails to do what it wants, lacks any utility options (ie SR), and just generally sucks.
 

HeaLnDeaL

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252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 183-216 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage
252+ SpA Life Orb Tomohawk Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 192-227 (45 - 53.2%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 373-439 (87.5 - 103%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 181-214 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO after 2 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 169-200 (39.6 - 46.9%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
I find it funny that the only mon you listed that has a relevant chance of KOing Gastrodon through Recover is a mon that isn't seen much in cap (Bisharp).

In terms of its damage output, of course it's not impressive. Chansey has poor damage too but it makes it through with Toxic, which is commonly used by Gastro too... and Gastro's attacking options are a lot more potent than Chansey's but I digress.

Anyway, I think we're all done with this gastro nonsense, your posts aren't convincing anyone and if all the people posting in favor of gastro aren't convincing you then there's no reason why we should be crapping this thread up over it.
 
I find it funny that the only mon you listed that has a relevant chance of KOing Gastrodon through Recover is a mon that isn't seen much in cap (Bisharp).

In terms of its damage output, of course it's not impressive. Chansey has poor damage too but it makes it through with Toxic, which is commonly used by Gastro too... and Gastro's attacking options are a lot more potent than Chansey's but I digress.

Anyway, I think we're all done with this gastro nonsense, your posts aren't convincing anyone and if all the people posting in favor of gastro aren't convincing you then there's no reason why we should be crapping this thread up over it.
All of the mons listed are ones which gastro supposedly checks/counters but can easily be blown past w hazards up. Furthermore, Bisharp is currently A- in the VR. if you think it is not good, then argue for it to drop. Those calcs only show mons which Gastro "checks" w/o hazards/chip; the list of mons that beat it 1v1 (things it can check) or things it can switchin to (counter) is much lower. Earlier examples of common breakers like Lando T, Mawile, and Medicham, as well as Syclant, Auromoth, and Manaphy, provide examples of mons it cannot check or counter, among many others. For a supposed blanket check, Gastro doesnt actually switchin to much of anything. Chansey also has a variety of things of Gastro, most of which I listed; better utility (see: SR, aromatheraphy, wish), better bulk (even without eviolite), and similar offensive presence (Seismic Toss does similar damage to scald/ep against many targets). Furthermore, Chansey is normally utilized on stall, a playstyle which doesnt give a shit about momentum. Gastro finds itself on balance and bulky offense, where offensive pressure is more important. Please address some of the actual points in my post rather than comparing Gastro to chansey (honestly wtf) and noting that Bisharp is not terribly common. I could certainly be convinced Gastro is good, but that would require actual arguments about how meta trends support its raise. IMO, newly released mons such as MegaPert, the increased presence of spikes and tspikes compared to ORAS, the addition of zmoves, and overall power creep in SM all point towards a decrease in the viability of Gastrodon.
 

snake

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All of the mons listed are ones which gastro supposedly checks/counters but can easily be blown past w hazards up. Furthermore, Bisharp is currently A- in the VR. if you think it is not good, then argue for it to drop. Those calcs only show mons which Gastro "checks" w/o hazards/chip; the list of mons that beat it 1v1 (things it can check) or things it can switchin to (counter) is much lower. Earlier examples of common breakers like Lando T, Mawile, and Medicham, as well as Syclant, Auromoth, and Manaphy, provide examples of mons it cannot check or counter, among many others. For a supposed blanket check, Gastro doesnt actually switchin to much of anything. Chansey also has a variety of things of Gastro, most of which I listed; better utility (see: SR, aromatheraphy, wish), better bulk (even without eviolite), and similar offensive presence (Seismic Toss does similar damage to scald/ep against many targets). Furthermore, Chansey is normally utilized on stall, a playstyle which doesnt give a shit about momentum. Gastro finds itself on balance and bulky offense, where offensive pressure is more important. Please address some of the actual points in my post rather than comparing Gastro to chansey (honestly wtf) and noting that Bisharp is not terribly common. I could certainly be convinced Gastro is good, but that would require actual arguments about how meta trends support its raise. IMO, newly released mons such as MegaPert, the increased presence of spikes and tspikes compared to ORAS, the addition of zmoves, and overall power creep in SM all point towards a decrease in the viability of Gastrodon.
Bisharp is B+, and it's being discussed to drop. The metagame is slow at the moment with Updates coming around the corner, but this VR will be updated before CAP updates happen to give a clear image of the metagame before Updates.

Regarding Gastrodon, at this point, I'd rather see replays of it being good or bad before anything happens to it. Spikes and Toxic Spikes are not that common in this metagame, as hazard removal is much easier to come by with 5 spinners, a Defogger, and the potential of both with Necturna's Sketch move. Simply having Gastrodon on a team pressures a Swampert user not to use Waterfall, or Kingdra not to lock itself into Surf, or Omastar not to use Hydro Vortex, and as superficial as that sounds, one wrong move can end a Rain team since it's so offensive. Sure, it lures in Ferrothorn, but a good Rain user can double out into something else too. I agree that Gastrodon isn't top tier, but it does have some decent qualities on it. Whether or not it deserves B- or not really depends on how it's used in action though.
 
So, as asked, I'm going to share a single replay to show that Gastrodon can be tough to deal with when you don't have Grass coverage or enough raw power to deal pass it, and that even though it's passive, you may trouble trouble to switch on it if you don't want to be burned or intoxicated: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7cap-593718922
I think we've argued enough to justify his rise.

I think that Bisharp should drop as well : the CAP metagme isn't kind at all for the Swords Dancer, the omnipresent Hazehawk ruins it's day, and so does offensive Hawk thank to his Dark resistance, Colossoil and Kerfluffle revenge kills it too, Cyclohm and Pyroak aren't OHKOed by a +4 Knock Off nor by a +2 Black Hole Elipse (Z Sucker Punch), Stratagem can be seen witha technician boosted Vacuum Wave and Syclant can RK Bisharp too if it carries an active Focus Sash, Cawmodore, Krilowatt, Fidgit and Plasmanta all survive a non Z Sucker Punch (even though two of them cannot if SR are up). As a trapper, I would rather use Colossoil thanks to his better Special Bulk and very useful abilities ( Defiant is cool too, but Rapid Spin is way more common than Defog in CAP ), although Bisharp typings helps him against some target like Tapu Lele. Bisharp B+ --> B / B-


 

emma

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im just happy we ended our 12 day feud about the C rank slug


Kitsunoh: B -> B+ / A-

Kitsunoh is hella good. Iron Fist gave it the ability to boost STAB Meteor Mash and coverage Ice / Thunder / Bullet Punch which let it hit Zygarde and Celesteela for super effective damage. 110 Sped outpaces threats such as Aurumoth, Lando-T, and Garchomp. 12 resistances lets it take on Aurumoth, Tapu Lele, Mega Mawile, and Mega Medicham, all A+ or S Rank Pokemon. Kitsunoh also resists SRs which makes it a great defogger. Will-o-Wisp, Wish, Knock Off, Roar, Pain Split, and Taunt all further its support capabilities, and U-Turn makes it a great pivot. Shadow Strike has a 50% chance to lower the opponent's defense which helps break down walls like Tapu Fini. Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Life Orb, Expert Belt, Z Crystals (Steel / Ghost), and Leftovers all work well giving it many options.

Colossoil and Cyclohm both give it problems, but the pros outweigh the cons and Kitsunoh should definitely rise.
 

OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life
I feel like Fidget could rise a subrank. It is not S but A+ makes sense. As a utility what more could you ask for? Access to every hazard bar webs and hazard removal in one slot! That is far from all, also many other utility moves. U-turn lets it pivot, taunt lets it shut down anything slower that isn't attacking, earth power and sludge bomb make it an ideal counter to Tapu Koko. Rockey Helmet sets punish Volt-Turn mercilessly. Fidget has the best role compression in the CAP metagame, if this alone doesn't make it at least A+ then I don't know what would.
 

G-Luke

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Some initial nominations following updates

Rises

B- -> A-
I think its safe to say that Naviathan is the biggest winner out of the updates, and there is no doubt why. Guts boosted Heavy Slam hits very hard right off the bat, and after a boost pretty much nothing is safe. It can produce feats such as OHKOing Mollux with Heavy Slam at +1, one of its best counters pre-update, running though Tangrowth and Celesteela with Icicle Crash and Wild Charge respectively after minimal wearing down, and eating up Plasmanta with Psychic Fangs. What is most dangerous about Naviathan, however, is its unpredictability. Its famous ORAS CM stallbreaker set hasn't changed, and while it has gotten arguably worse due to the prevalence of Dugtrio, still functions great. Whats good is thanks to the buffs, Guts DDance and CM Stallbreaker sets don't share all of the same checks and counters anymore, which means pivoting in that Mollux into Navi expecting a stallbreaking set are pulverized by a Heavy Slam, and Ferrothorns pivoting into DDance sets face imminent doom as the stallbreaking set gets to work. The sheer effectiveness of the DDance set and its unpredictability warrant Navi's rise.

D to B-
My favourite from the updates, Voodoom finally has the tools to not be utter trash. While OU banned what would grant it a solid B+ rank in the form of NastyPass, #CAPMetaCouncil, its still is dangerous enough to use Nasty Plot on its own. The biggest buff in my opinion, are its access to new coverage moves Thunderbolt and Flash Cannon. I personally liked using this core to success.

Tapu Koko @ Magnet
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Ability: Electric Surge
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- U-Turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Voodoom @ Electrium Z
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Ability: Lightning Rod
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Dark Pulse

Simple core and simple to use. Wear stuff down with Koko pivoting power, and smash stuff with a +2 Gigavolt Havoc in Electric Terrain with Voodoom.

Overall Voodoom loves its buffs and can stab itself a little less now that its out of D Rank.

D to B+
Triage and +3 priority Drain Punches are great. Naviathan being everywhere is great. Actual Ghost STAB is great. Things are great for the Mummy, so great it got a movie this summer. Revenakh is great.

B to B+/A-
Icve been using the prawn and its really neat. The simple addition of Volt Switch does wonders for the prawn, as it can now pivot in and out of threats and checks, great combined with its decent bulk, great typing and immunity to hazards.

Drops

B- to D/Unranked
Why this still is ranked so high baffles me. Its only redeeming niche in revenging Mega Meta is long gone, and the speed buff doesn't justify its absolute lack of bulk and subsequent linearness (too frail to run set up sets).

Can we also kick Minior too? I don't even know why its there. (The D Rank in itself is pretty clogged)
 
C to B/B+
Honestly I've been running and seeing Arghonaut a ton and it does such a good job most of the time. It has the ability to stop threats such as Revenankh by just throwing a toxic at them and not care about how many bulk up they may set up. It can stack up Spikes allowing to pressure the opponent and letting teammates sweep. Another point would that it can get rid of ugly pokemons by just using Circle Throw, Arghonaut also has useful coverage such as Earthquake to hit Eletric Types, Magearna, ect on switch-ins.

Also, I was wondering if we really needed a D rank anymore?
 

cbrevan

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I've got a couple of announcements to make, and starting with the most important one, we've added Drapionswing to the Viability Ranking team. He's been one of the better contributors in the thread and has helped with his insight on several Pokemon, so we're happy to have him.

We've also updated the thread based off our last discussions on the pre-update metagame. I realize updates have been out for a couple of weeks, but we've all been busy and I haven't gotten the list settled until this week. Since I don't want to focus on an older metagame, I'll be implementing the changes directly into the list. This way, we can all focus on the post-update metagame.
Mawile (Mega) A+ to A
It's a bit too reliant on Trick Room to be as effective as other A+ ranked Pokemon, especially not on the level of Zygarde, Magearna, or any of the Greninja formes. It's still extremely potent under Trick Room and a good wallbreaker outside of it, which is why it's only moving to A.
Medicham (Mega) A+ to A
Medicham just isn't near the level of flexibility other A+ ranked Pokemon has and doesn't exert the same presence those Pokemon have on the metagame. It's matchup against offense is only okay, and it has trouble against fat Psychic-types, such as Mew, which are gaining traction.
Charizhard Mega X A to A-
It's overall held back by a serious case of 4MSS, where it wants to run STABS + Roost + Earthquake + Thunder Punch + DD, and any combination of these moves leaves it walled by a common group of Pokemon, which necessitates more team support to work than other win conditions in A.
Cyclohm A to A-
Flying spam isn't as dominant and Cyclohm lost a major niche in the Metagross ban- since then the metagame has just gotten more specially focused which makes Cyclohm's niche as a powerful physical wall less relevant, plus a number of top threats such as Mageara, Landorus-t, Zygarde, etc. all beat it pretty handily.
Magearna A to A+
Magearna is just a beast of a Pokemon with a lot of flexibility in what sets it can use. Shift Gear sets in particular are becoming more refined at beating it's usually counters with sets running Bolt Beam coverage and Z Fightnium, as well as OTR sets being pretty good.
Mollux A to A-
The stuff it excels at checking/countering is declining, and the stuff it soft checks (i.e. VoltTurn mons) are commonly either paired with Dugtrio or one of the many dangerous threats sitting in the top ranks. Giving a free Substitute to Zygarde is a pain in the ass, and being forced out by Aurumoth, Tapu Lele, Medicham, Landorus-T, and even Syclant is balls since they all have a way to capitalize on the forced switch by setting up, getting up hazards, or just nuking something. Mollux is annoying to switch into for offense because a team's Mollux check often hates getting burnt by Lava Plume, but the same can be said of Toxapex and Scald.
Scizor (Mega) A to A-
Metagross ban left Mega Scizor without one of it's best niches, and Tomohawk, Pyroak, and the other CAPs that check it really makes the SD set hard to run nowadays. Defensive sets are decent checks for Zygarde and some Landorus-t sets, but Hidden Power Fire is a common coverage move on Tapu Lele and Magearna that it wants to check.
Tapu Fini A to A-
Not much to say other than people are generally very well prepped for it at the moment and none of its sets are particularly amazing.
Charizhard Mega Y A- to A
Increase of effectiveness of Rain offense has helped Chary as it's a good counterplay option to Rain, especially how it can push through Rain teams lacking a SpDef Mollux or Pelipper. Outside of helping the Rain matchup, Chary is an overall solid Pokemon that easily takes advantage of the popularity of Pokemon such as Magearna to punch holes in teams lacking a hard switchin.
Jirachi A- to B+
It's just generally checked by a lot of Fire-types, Ground-types, Darks, et cetera both offensively and defensively, and it's a mon that requires more team support than something I would consider self-sufficient enough for A. None of its sets are great right now.
Kerfluffle A- to B+
It's outclassed by mons that hit harder and faster, and unfortunately Parting Shot isn't that good of a redeeming trait for it since most of Kerfluffle's best defensive checks don't give two shits about their attacking stats being lowered a stage. Z-Parting Shot is restricted to HO / setup spam, and even there offense would often prefer to run an attacking Z move on something else. Kerf isn't splashable this gen.
Manaphy A- to B+
It's just not as good as we thought it was, sorry.
Salamence A- to B+
Increase of 100+ speed scarfers (Garchomp, Crucibelle, Keldeo, even stuff like Latios, Syclant, and Greninja) really hurt it's niche of being a setup sweeper able to dodge the common CAP scarfers of Volkraken and Tapu Lele.
Venusaur (Mega) A- to B+
Bisharp B+ to B
Tomohawk still walls this Pokemon up to heaven and back and the popularity of Zygarde and Colossoil makes it hard for Bisharp to get in and do much outside of Pursuit trapping and punishing Defog on Web based teams.
Chansey B+ to A-
The fat blob carries its weight against Mageara and both Greninja formes, which allows it to function of offense to an extent to help them from just getting rolled by those three Pokemon.
Nihilego B+ to B
Scarf set has a lot of competition from Crucibelle which functions better as a pivot and has more initial power, plus the ubiquity of Ground-types and Pokemon such as Magearna really makes it hard for it to function.
Buzzhole B to C
Tomohawk just walls Buzzhole to an extent where it's nearly a liability to use over say Tapu Bulu.
Dragonite B to B-
Gliscor B to C
Kartana B to B-
Keldeo B to A-
Kitsunoh B to B+
Mantine B to B-
Porygon Z B to B-
Scolipede B to C
Slowbro B to B-
Hippowdown B- to C
Mew B- to B
Mimikyu B- to B
Zygarde 10% B- to D
Gastrodon C to B-
Klefki C to Unranked
Mandibuzz C to D
Necrozoma C to Unranked
Ninetails-Alola C to B-
Omanstar C to B-
Raichu-Alola C to D
Reuniclius C to B-
Xuritree C to Unranked
Absol (Mega) D to Unranked
Seismitoed D to Unranked
Tentacruel D to C
Whimiscott D to Unranked
Whishiwasgoodwashi D to Unranked

As you may have noticed, we did a fairly massive update with a lot of changes to a lot of Pokemon. I tried to keep the explanations brief, but I ran out of steam for the lower ranks and I ended up not explaining them. It's not my best work, so if you have any questions about the changes PM someone on the Ranking team or post in the thread about it.

That said, I do want us to focus discussion on the current post update metagame, so try to post about that. Some discussion points I'd like to see are the newly updated CAPs and unranked Megas such as Mega Gallade.
 
Let's get some obvious ones out of the way.

Revenankh D ---> A / A+

Speaks for itself. Triage is so good on Nankh.

Aurumoth S ---> A
It lost illusion. 'Nuff said.

Also, have a nomination that is of my opinion.

Mega Lopunny ---> A- / A
It is really good in the metagame right now. Offensive is the major playstyle in CAP and stall isn't as prominent here. Thusly, MegaLop loves that and can handle a good portion of the metagame. I would prefer to see it at A, but A- is fine by me.
 
Revenankh D ---> B+
This mon gain the ability of triage after updates. Triage allows Revenankh to have priority in most of its moves but it still lacks the power to do a lot of damage. Ghost/Fighting is an amazing offensive typing but Revenankh doesn't have good speed and thats what holds it back I feel. Tomohawk's usage isn't giving it the ability to really shine. As of right now this is where I think Revenankh should be tiered.
 

snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
Let's get some obvious ones out of the way.
Revenankh D ---> A / A+
Speaks for itself. Triage is so good on Nankh.

Aurumoth S ---> A
It lost illusion. 'Nuff said.

Also, have a nomination that is of my opinion.

Mega Lopunny ---> A- / A
It is really good in the metagame right now. Offensive is the major playstyle in CAP and stall isn't as prominent here. Thusly, MegaLop loves that and can handle a good portion of the metagame. I would prefer to see it at A, but A- is fine by me.
"Speaks for itself" and " 'nuff said" don't mean anything and don't do anything for the thread. I'm not disagreeing with a drop or rise in general for each of those mons, but at least provide actual reasoning to go with it.
 

SHSP

is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top CAP Contributor
Moderator
Mega Gallade to B
SM has been quite the boon to Gallade- the new speed mechanics help it a ton, as well as the meta itself. It's able to handle stuff like Mew better than Medicham can because of Knock Off, and the ability to threaten SD's make it a powerful breaker that threatens a lot of cores much the same way Medi does. It isn't quite as good as Medi because of the lack of immediate power and a severe case of 4MSS (you want SD, CC, zen, knock and ice punch all at once) but it's ability to do well into bulky teams and not be dead weight against offense makes it solidly B rank to me.

Mega Loppuny to B-
I can't really agree with Mega Lop being overly effective in this meta. Sure, it is more offensive than OU for example, but Lop still struggles. The things that make it's life hell still exist: Celesteela is common, Mew is rising in use, Toxapex is common, and stuff like Skarm is still problematic even if they are less common in CAP. On top of the things that also deal with it in OU, CAP adds a laundry list of other issues for it: it struggles into Tomo, Argh and Cyclohm, is revenged by Rev and overall struggles heavily into common builds in CAP.

Mew from B- to A
Mew is very very solid in CAP right now. It's able to handle a lot of what's common now defensively: Medi, Maw, Zygarde, Lando, and is able to cripple attackers with a fast WoW. It certainly despises Colossoil and a rising use of Ash-Greninja, but it's way underrated right now on the VR. It's a versitile hazard user and remover, is able to handle many serious threats in the current meta.
 
S -> A : I think that this one is pretty obivious : Aurumoth isn't as godlike as it was once when Illusion was allowed. His typing has defensive issues and he is no longer able to disguise himself into another Pokemon, which makes the set up a lot harder in some match ups. Also, it will rarely got multiple boosts to outspeed (if you're running Quiver Dance or Dragon Dance) some Scarfer like Volkraken or Crucibelle, something which was easier Illusion again. The ability to lure in and kill a counter to the Pokemon who was actually Aurumoth was something extremely useful too which can change a match, and our legendary bug isn't able to do this anymore. Nonetheless, Arumoth's other abilities are still very good, allowing him to either use powerful inaccurate moves and thus enjoying fully his great coverage or acting as an offensive check to a large amount of offensive Pokemon and giving even more sweeping capabilities by raising his Speed. Aurumoth is still very hard to check and his only "counter" is Unaware Clefable (which can be taken by the odd Final Gambit) and remains one of the most frightening offensive threat in the CAP Metagame due to his access to a bunch of coverage options, his solid BS and three great boosting moves, thus he's a very unpredictable Sweeper and/or Wallbreaker. Being mostly a set up based Pokemon (although an AOA set is perfectly viable) able to get rid of HazeHawk and Unaware Arghonaut helps a lot too, and while his typing may be overall pretty bad defensively, keep in mind that Volcarona suffers from a similar problem and that Aurumoth is very bulky and the physical side and will be able to set up in most games.

D -> B+ / A- : As you already know, Triage is such a great addition for Revenankh. Despite the fact that Figthing is probably not the best type for a priority due to several set up based Mons like Aurumoth, Volcarona and Salamence being resistant to it, Drain Punch keeps a very strong base power allowing to keep in checks a large amount of frail Sweepers like Greninja or Syclant. Many offensives teams could be in trouble against Revenankh as it can be really tough to prevent him for healing himself when you don't have a Lele or a very bulky Fighting resistance. Being countered by Tomohawk and Clefable sucks, but the old Choice Band with Trick can still be a pain for both of them, such a set is now effective outside of crippled those annoyances too thanks to the powerful priority Drain Punch. Ghost / Fighting is a fairly good defensive typing allowing a Defensive Revenankh to work as a great answer to Crucibelle and as a check to some other offensive Mons like Syclant thanks to his overall bulk and priority Moonlight. However, my favorite set is still the SubBU (although BU Sets in general are great, both offensively and defensively inclined), which can be a pain to stop if you don't have something like Tomohawk, Clefable and Arhonaut (the latter can't do much though).

C -> A / A+ : Even before the updates, I thougt that C was already a bit low due to the number of threats Arghonaut was able to Check / Counter (like Syclant, Volkraken, Ash Greninja, Crucibelle-Mega, Volcarona...) , but now that he gets Spikes and Circle Throw, which grants him an utility loved by the very effectives Volturn cores and the ability to use both a Fighting STAB and the ability to phaze something like Cawmodore in one slot, Unaware Arghonaut is now incredibly splashable, and the fact that Naviathan, Revenankh and Voodoom got buffed too just helps him. Arghonaut is a very versatile Pokemon too, mainly thanks to the add of Technician which have made his Aqua Jet a lot more dangerous when holding a Choice Band, especially for Volcarona ( Flame Body can be punishing though), but such a Set isn't very easy to switch into neither giving Arghonaut's coverage, even though it suffers from the omnipresence of Tomohawk, just like Revenankh. I didn't test yet, but I'm pretty sure that Bulk Up Arghonaut is a thing, since BU + Recover being legal now, and Technician Circle Throw / Aqua-Jat being available.

B+ -> A : It has been proven that offensive Kitsunoh's sets became a lot more effective, but in my opinion his best Set is the WishTect : Kistunoh is able to handle a lot of things that Jirachi is able to check like Crucibelle-Mega, Offensive Tomohawk, Magearna ect. despite being less bulky. However, Kitsunoh is blessed with the acces to WoW which helps a ton against some threats like Mawile-Mega and Revenankh, and makes Kitsunoh a lot harder to switch than Jirachi (Heatran and Colossoil are bad news, espiecially the latter if he carries Pursuit, but they should be wary of switching on Kitsunoh without knowing the Set). Being an hard check to Medicham Mega is a very good reason to play Defensive Kit over Jirachi too. Just like Arghonaut, Kistunoh is a versatile Mon, very solid and both Defensive and Offensive aspects, and thus I think he easily deserves to be A.

I agree with many previous nominations (although I think that Gallade should be B+ and Voodoom and Lopunny B), I need to think more about Malaconda and Plasmanta, I think that Necturna might deserve to be A (Phantom Force is definitely a good addition as a powerful Z-Move, but Necturna is a great user of Z-Moves in genral, Leech Seed is interesting too) and I think that Crucibelle-Mega and Syclant could maybe drop (both of these hurt my soul, but I think the updates aren't kind to them, however they are great candidates for Volturns, sooooo... I would be honestly happy to be wrong here). I'll developp later, I should play with or watch them more first.
 

Drapionswing

Eating it up, YUMMY!
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
I'm really enjoying the changes the updates have brought on thus far. I feel like the changes + meta trends have really pushed us into a bulkier metagame, which is definitely proving to be reminiscent of Gen 6, well bar you know... z moves. This trend of bulkyness is definitely had a huge influence over my nominations.

B -> A Rank +
A+ -> A:
Krillowatt is in my opinion the biggest winner of the updates. Volt Switch allows krillowatt to easily compete with Tapu Koko for a moveslot, due to Magic Guard + its bulk. Krillowatt is able to switch into many more moves than Tapu Koko which gives it a crazy amount of opportunities to create momentum with little to no precaution. Being immune to rocks is obviously a big win here, but Krillowatt can switch in on many attacks thanks to it's insane bulk. Things like Celesteela(which commonly runs Flamethrower), Volkraken or Keldeo can be switched into with Krillowatt fairly easily, this gives Offensive teams a really strong backbone as even OHKOing krill is a task. Being able to run Ice Beam to hit grounds provides you OHKO's verus some of the more prevalent grounds meaning you can click your electric stabs easier. Bulkier teams definitely have limited counterplay to prevent krillowatts Volt Switch and forces more aggressive plays, taking the player out of the playstyle. I definitely don't think Tapu Koko has gotten worse, infact I think it's still better than Krillowatt, but Tapu Koko's dominance as the top Electric-Type is what makes it A+, and Krillowatt being almost as good as Tapu Koko is why I think it should drop.

Replays showing off krill's longevity:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7cap-605051124
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7cap-603921001

A- -> A Rank:
Pinsir is definitely one of the top Megas in the Cap Metagame right now, it loves this fat metagame as I'm sure everyone knows that Mega Pinsir just eats those teams alive. Bulky cores of Tangrowth + Heatran/Mollux just get eaten alive, whilst also being able to get passed Haze Tomohawk as a sweeper just puts Pinsir in A. FWG cores don't have much answer to Mega Pinsir and with Arghonaut and Revenankh on the rise Pinsir just becomes even stronger. Having priority to hit weakened offensive checks such as Tapu Koko or Stratagem allows a limitation of the answers to it. A big trend I've noticed is Skarmory is not as common here due to Tomohawk being our premiere defensive Flying-Type, thus allowing Pinsir way more freedom here. As far as Mega competition goes, Pinsir is in my opinion the best Mega to use in CAP right now, the metagame is really flying weak which leads me to want to nominate Pinsir to A+, however I think the metagame needs more time to grow before I make that nomination.
 
Hey all. The post-update metagame has had a few weeks to settle now. The CAP VR team has been working on a list of discussion points based on the new metagame. I'll do my best to sum up the reasoning for each of these:

New Additions
Gallade (Mega) to B+/B
Swampert (Mega) to B+/B
Heracross (Mega) to B/B-
Manectric (Mega) to B/B-
Tyranitar (Mega) to B/B-
Gardevoir (Mega) to B-
Lopunny (Mega) to B-
Cresselia to C
Camerupt (Mega) to C
Pidgeot (Mega) to C
Smeargle to D
  • Though Mega Gallade shares similarities with Mega Medicham and lacks its initial brute strength, Mega Gallade still carves itself a niche in this metagame with its higher Speed tier and ability to bust through certain cores. For example, Pokemon like Mew, Kitsunoh, and Aurumoth can all check Mega Medicham reasonably well, but are much more nervous to switch into Mega Gallade due to Swords Dance and Knock Off.
  • Mega Swampert has brought new life to rain teams and has cemented itself as one of the best Megas for the archetype. Its physical prowess and valuable Electric immunity allow it to handle Pokemon that rain teams could otherwise struggle with. Though it lacks viability outside of rain teams, it's a near staple to consider when it comes to building and preparing for rain.
  • Mega Heracross is quite strong against fat teams and has the bulk to get in a hit or two against offense. Its typing lets it serve as a decent check to Ground-types and prevents Dugtrio from trapping it easily. The massive presence of defensive Tomohawk and Flyinium Z Landorus-T do make its life difficult.
  • Mega Manectric acts as a solid momentum grabber thanks to its impressive Speed stat and respectable offenses. However, it hasn't made much of a splash in the metagame so far. Teams already tend to be prepared for dealing with Electric/Ice/Fire coverage coming off the same mon thanks to the presence of other Electric-types such as Zapdos and Cyclohm.
  • Mega Tyranitar saw a brief stint of usage in the pre-update metagame, but quickly fell off when Revenankh, Arghonaut, and others hit the scene. It can still be quite dangerous, but it usually requires hefty team support to be successful.
  • Mega Gardevoir faces stiff competition from other Psychic-type Megas such as Alakazam, Gallade, and Medicham as Tapu Lele partners, as well as Tapu Lele itself due to its similarities in typing and offensive capabilities.
  • Mega Lopunny faces some issues with consistency. While it can be incredibly potent versus some variants of offense, it has the unfortunate tendency to be near deadweight in certain matchups. Defensive Tomohawk can be quite the roadblock.
  • Cresselia has a small niche as a secondary Trick Room setter with a Ground immunity, allowing it to check Pokemon like Landorus-T. It can preserve momentum and heal a weakened offensive teammate with Lunar Dance.
  • Mega Camerupt usage so far has primarily been as a Trick Room abuser thanks to its low Speed and high offenses, and it can check some notable threats such as Magearna and Tapu Koko.
  • Mega Pidgeot hasn't changed much this generation. It still faces direct competition from Tornadus-T, but it boasts perfectly accurate Hurricanes.
  • Smeargle has a very small niche as a Sticky Web setter for Hyper Offense. While it faces stiff competition from Necturna and has no offensive presence, Smeargle's ability to Sketch four moves makes it the preferable lead for some teams, being able to cram Stealth Rock, Spore, and other moves into its set.

Rises
Charizard (Mega-Y) A to A+
Volkraken A to A+
Cyclohm A- to A
Dugtrio A- to A
Pinsir (Mega) A- to A
Toxapex B+ to A-
Mew B to A-/B+
Pelipper B to B+
Naviathan B- to A-/B+
Arghonaut C to A/A-
Malaconda C to B-
Revenankh D to B
Voodoom D to C
  • Mega Charizard Y has continued to climb in relevance and remains one of the metagame's most effective Megas. Mega Charizard Y + Dugtrio cores are simple yet highly effective and are becoming an increasingly common sight. It's a contender for the prestigious ranking of A+.
  • Volkraken is being considered for a rise thanks to its Choice Specs set. It's notoriously difficult to switch into, and its overall impact on the metagame and teambuilding can be felt to a similar degree as the other threats in A+.
  • Cyclohm's newfound access to Volt Switch has diversified the sets that it can run effectively, and it has the movepool to directly threaten every Ground-type in the metagame. Though it recently dropped, this new tool might be just enough to justify it moving back to A.
  • There isn't much to be said about Dugtrio since its capabilities are fairly straightforward. It has a vital niche in several offensive cores and most stall teams, and its impact on teambuilding is significant.
  • Mega Pinsir is another highly effective Mega Pokemon in the current metagame as explained by Drapionswing's earlier post.
  • B+ is likely undervaluing Toxapex's defensive capabilities in the current metagame. Shed Shell Toxapex is one of the few forms of reliable counterplay to Zard Y + Dugtrio. It still offers utility in Toxic Spikes and Haze and great staying power with Recover and Regenerator.
  • Mew's support capabilities in Defog, Will-O-Wisp, and Stealth Rock and ability to check threats like Mega Medicham thanks to its typing and reliable recovery make it a good candidate for a rise.
  • Rain as a whole has seen a spike in effectiveness lately, and players are starting to experiment with more set variety on Pelipper, namely with Choice Specs. Despite its moderate Special Attack, Choice Specs Pelipper is surprisingly difficult to switch into, and things like Chansey don't enjoy a potential Knock Off.
  • Naviathan got a bunch of new tools from the updates, turning its formerly irrelevant Dragon Dance set into a competent sweeper. It can switch up its set to fare better against specific playstyles; options like Taunt and Slack Off are better against fat teams, but the lessened coverage can hamper its ability to sweep faster teams.
  • Arghonaut has catapulted into relevance largely due to the addition of Spikes to its movepool. It can fit onto a wide variety of teams thanks to Unaware + reliable recovery, allowing it to check a variety of physical setup sweepers and even some special attackers such as Syclant and Volkraken.
  • Drought has given Malaconda a bump in viability. Drought-boosted Synthesis greatly aids its survivability as a sun setter, and it has a wide range of methods of supporting the team through Glare, Heal Bell, Rapid Spin, and Pursuit.
  • Triage has given Revenankh a relevant niche in the metagame. +3 priority Drain Punch gives it the ability to revenge kill weakened threats, and priority Moonlight increases its staying power. Bulk Up sets got a bit better since thanks to having a stronger priority option, but many of the threats that plagued the set's effectiveness before are still relevant now.
  • Voodoom hasn't gotten too much better, as it still faces competition from special attackers that are faster and can hit harder right off the bat like the Greninjas, but Nasty Plot makes it reasonably difficult to switch into.

Drops
Aurumoth S to A
Syclant A+ to A
Pyroak A to A-
Alakazam (Mega) A- to B+
Charizard (Mega-X) A- to B
Mollux A- to B+
Scizor (Mega) A- to B+
Tornadus-T A- to B+
Excadrill B+ to B
Hoopa-U B+ to B
Kerfluffle B+ to B
Serperior B+ to B
Salamence B+ to B/B-
Weavile B+ to B
Gyarados (Mega) B+ to B-
Manaphy B+ to B-
Volcanion B+ to C
Bisharp B to B-
Nihilego B to B-
Thundurus B to B-
Aerodactyl (Mega) B- to C
Breloom B- to C
Buzzwole B- to C
Diggersby B- to C
Dragonite B- to C
Gliscor B- to C
Porygon-Z B- to C
Omastar B- to C
Scizor B- to C
Magneton C to unranked
Pyukumuku C to unranked
Shedinja C to unranked
Zygarde-10% C to unranked
Minior D to unranked
  • With Aurumoth's loss of Illusion, it's no longer on par with the S ranks in terms of metagame impact. While it's still dangerously versatile, it does suffer from the trend of faster scarfers, as base 94 Speed means that +1 Aurumoth is still outsped by just about every viable Choice Scarf user. Pokemon like Greninja and Zygarde are ranked as A+ an have an arguably larger impact on the current metagame, so flat A could be a good starting rank for new Aurumoth.
  • Syclant was teetering on the edge of A+/A viability before updates and was a hot topic for debate. Arghonaut has always been one of the best Syclant counters, and with its sudden relevance in the metagame, this could likely be the final straw that pushes Syclant down a rank.
  • Pyroak's unique set of resistances have become less valuable in the current metagame. While it's still a solid tank, Mega Metagross's banning and the decline of other Steel-types like Mega Scizor have reduced Pyroak's splashability. Many players are opting for Tangrowth as the go-to defensive Grass-type; despite lacking Stealth Rock, it's less prone to being worn down thanks to its typing and Regenerator, and it can't be taken advantage of by Ash Greninja and Zygarde as easily.
  • Mega Alakazam has seen a general decline in usage and effectiveness, and A- is likely overselling its capabilities.
  • Dugtrio's steadily increasing relevance continues to harm Mollux, as it's heavily pressured to do much besides click Lava Plume versus Protean Greninja, Ash Greninja, Tapu Koko, and other things it could otherwise check due to fear of getting U-turned/Volt Switched on and being trapped. This worsens its problem with being worn down quickly, as it's less free to be clicking Recover or performing support duties. More generally, Ground coverage to deal with Mollux in the form of Earthquake on Celesteela and Mega Charizard Y isn't uncommon. Mollux is still as solid as ever at checking Greninja formes and Magearna, but it's unfortunate that they're paired with Dugtrio as much as they are.
  • Mega Scizor has been falling off ever since the Mega Metagross ban, and it suffers from trends such as certain Fire-types rising in usage. Overall, it's arguably less effective than the other mons currently residing in the A rankings.
  • Tornadus-T's Life Orb set was the main set keeping it A-, and it's becoming shakier versus stall now that different teambuilds are being explored (Zapdos is being more frequently seen), and certain Electric-types in general are picking up in usage (Cyclohm and Krilowatt). It'd likely fit better down in B+.
  • The rest of the drops should be fairly self-explanatory. Many of them were simply initially overvalued in terms of their effectiveness (e.g. new Gen 7 toys, overhyped Z sweepers, etc), but a few dropped for metagame-related reasons. If there are any questions about any of these, feel free to ask them or discuss these mons. Hopefully the lower ranks will look a bit tidier after they're filtered out.

Hopefully this list generates some ideas for discussion! If you passionately agree or disagree with any of these, post away.

We'd like to get an update of the thread completed before CAPTT really gets going so we have a snapshot of the metagame. This way we'll have a solid base to work with as we observe metagame trends happening throughout the tournament.
 
I either agree or am neutral on most of the nominations above, except these ones (sorry I'm on phone and I'm too lazy to C/C sprites) :

Charizard-Y : I don't think Zard-Y is at the same level than most current A+ mons like Celesteela or Tapu Lele as he isn't as splashable and / or versatile as them nor better than A ranked Mons. Despite the fact that there are more ways to remove SR in CAP, there are also more checks like Crucibelle-Mega, Cyclohm, Heatproof Naviathan (if no Focus Blast) and to a lesser extent Volkraken. Charizard-Y's effectiveness is also quite dependent of which kind of team he's facing as HO can often prevent you from removing hazards and / or allowing Zard-Y to come on the field safely with offensive pressure. Most Volt Switch and even U-turn users like Crucibelle, Krilowatt and Tapu Koko can take advantage of Zard-Y too.

Pyroak : Even in a Metagame without Metagross-Mega, Pyroak still belongs in A in my opinion due to the number of threats it checks / counters (Magearna, Kitsunoh, Krilowatt, Tapu Koko...). The SR weakness sucks, yes, but Roak has enough bulk to avoid most 2HKOes even when he takes 25% on the switch-in, depending on your spread. Pyroak can also be a pain to take down and the burn from Lava Plume and potential Ground coverage can discourage several Pyroak answers to come in. Being able to take at least one hit like Head Smash from Crucibelle-Mega and doing damage with Earthquake / Earth power is also a prouf that Pyroak is difficult to 1v1 for a wide amount of offensive Pokemon.

Kerfluffle : In a Metagame where Volturn and Set-up Sweepers are this good, fast Parting Shot (Z or not) is a very good addition to most teams, even though there are Kerfluffle's switch ins who don't mind too much of the drop ( Toxapex and Amoonguss in particular ), they can be taken advantage of by Kerfluffle's allies due to their lack of power. Z-Celebrate Kerfluffle can become quite threatening as well for those who rely on something like Pyroak to check it. Tapu Lele is certainly a big competitor offensively, but the better Speed and ability to give Momentum and set up opportunities is very valuable.

Mollux : While not as splashable as it once was in a Metagame with Genesect, Aegislash and Pheromosa, Mollux is still useful for similar reasons than Pyroak, which means it checks a good number of threat like Magearna, Volkraken (somewhat), Tapu Koko... even though he fears some potential HP Ground. Providing both Rapid Spin and SR support, being immune to both Toxic and WoW and being not that easy to switch in due to threat of the burn (and regular Poison), especially from something with such an high Spa are all helpful as well. Mollux is also fairly threatening and hard to switch into when played offensively because of his high Spa, Thunderbolt, HP Ice or Ground, Trick and to a lesser extent Eruption.

Hoopa-U : Fearing the uncompetitive Dugtrio omnipresent in stall teams and U-Turn is a problem, but I don't see any Pokemon in the Metagame as hard to tank and to switch into than Hoopa-U. By the way, he's not just a dead weight against offensive teams since his special bulk allows him to often take one neutral hit (or more) on the special side and get at least one kill, these teams won't like the Choice Scarf or even Z-Trick variants.

Salamence : I won't mind too much if he goes to B, but I think he's on the same level than Gyarados. The Flying type gives a STAB very useful for a Set Up Sweeper as it gets rid of Tomohawk and Arghonaut as well as a resistance to priority Drain Punch and Aqua Jet (Ice Shard isn't that common). It does have Fire coverage to lure some of his common answers too. Even though he would love to hit Lando-t as hard as Gyarados, he doesn't suffer very much against Cyclohm and Scarf Volkraken.

Porygon-Z : Same thing than Mence with Electric coverage ( which is probably the best option currently), Hazehawk might prevent you to sweep for the rest of the game as you can't use Z-Conversion more than once, but at the cost of his life. The defense boost makes P-Z not that easy to Revenge Kill, especially if he runs Recover. Getting an opportunity to set up isn't very easy against most offensive teams, but P-Z can become deadly, as most people don't mind too much about him when Teambuilding.

I think that Voodoom, Revenankh and Toxapex could be even higher. I have other opinions, I'll share them later.
 

cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
We didn't get much discussion on sparktrain's discussion points, so I went and implemented them into the list as an update. This mean's the list is now up to date with the post update meta with the exception of this week's mega releases. Everything listed is up for discussion, but please refrain from discussing the new megas until they've settled into the metagame.
 

BP

Beers and Steers
is a Contributor to Smogon
Mew A- -----> A / A+

I've been using Mew a lot recently and I have to say it is currently one of the best blanket checks in the tier because of the ungodly amount of coverage it gets. It can check and counter A lot of prevalent Pokemon in the tier. Idk I don't really have much to say other then it is to good for A- I'm kind of on a time crunch right now
 

OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life
Kartana to B+

Kartana has improved a lot with recent meta shifts. Scarf is really good when played well and it is the set I'm basing this post on. It can rip apart balanced and offensive teams alike due to it's very high attack combined with Beast Boost. Very solid check to M-Diancie, very sold counter to M-Crucibelle, and very solid counter to DD Naviathan which are major selling points of its viability. It can tremendously pressure certain builds just by existing and it forces enough switches to justify a slot for defog on the set if you want defog. It not only beats A-Ninetails easily but you can squeeze in Brick Break to remove screens if you want to remove screens while still dishing out damage. This mon has several ways to capitalize on the switches it forces including wide enough coverage to hit the entire meta at least neutrally and also hitting large amounts of the meta super-effectively. Other sets like sd+3 attacks, 4 attacks lo, and probably even sub+sd are possibly viable too but I only have used the scarf set so idk...It also pairs extremely well on VoltTurn being able to obliterate the ground types that would try to stop you from getting chip by pivoting. Demolishes Fairy and Ground types which is reason enough alone for a rise but the recent meta trends virtually necessitate a rise for the ultra beast at this point.
 
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