EE's VGC 2011 team #1

[Expert Evan]

It's a new VGC season, and with lots to contend with and the trickiness of trying to come up with a team that is able to adapt to as many possible scenarios, Here's a glance of what I've come up with as a team:

With either tailwind or trickroom to choose from, the intent of this team is to setup the speed with tailwind and sweep as fast as possible with the power provided with some of them. While it's done successful on the random wifi rating system and with some moderate success on Pokemon Online along with the battle subway even, with few months to prepare for VGC, I feel I still have room to improve and ultimately hope to qualify at the regionals and move until Nationals and hopefully Worlds. So here's some more details of each intended member:

Whimsicott (M) @ Mental Herb
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Helping Hand
- Encore
- Taunt
- Tailwind

Whimsicott with no attacking moves nor protect can always go first. Start off with tailwind to setup the speed, taunt for other annoyers and whimsicotts not as fast, encore to make predictions work in my favor, and helping hand to strengthen support for some of these sweepers here. Whimsicott has highest speed among all the pranksters available and has been rather fun to use many times.

Terrakion @ Lum Berry
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Quick Guard
- Rock Slide
- Close Combat
- Protect

Terrakion is among the physical sweeping pokemon in the faster tier group, quick guard to prevent whimsicott from being faked out, or protect when expecting that same certain pokemon to do a hi jump kick to that effect, rock slide to target both especially against an amoongus setup and cause flinches and close combat for strongest stab.

Chandelure (M) @ Fire Jewel
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Heat Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
- Protect

Chandelure with special attack enhancing nature with an insane stat and powerful moves. Heat wave again for both targets particularly if amoongus is on the scene again, shadow ball alternatively for foe chandelure/jellicent, psychic for certain fighting types, and protect to stall foe's trick room possibly.

Jellicent (M) @ Water Jewel
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 100 HP / 252 SAtk / 156 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Protect

The mini-kyogre of this generation as this offensive variant can deal heavy damage with water spout so long as it's still in full health, and with tailwind support can easily pull that off unless its sucker punched by likes of foe zoroark or bisharp to name a few. ice beam for foe dragon & grass types, shadow ball for other ghosts/psychics, and protect as goes with other members as well.

Zoroark (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Low Sweep
- Protect
- Counter

Seeing how effectively this fools others, this is often brought in disguised as a terrakion particularly against certain fighting or psychic types that intend to KO it only to end up being sucker punched or countered instead. While this is still of a physical nature, low sweep is used to hurt opponents. Originally I was using hydreigon but am not so sure if I should go back to using it again really.

Musharna (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Telepathy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Helping Hand
- Psychic
- Trick Room
- Magic Coat

The idea of musharna is to serve as an anti-trickroom pokemon, taunt back to whimsicott, outspore amoongus with magic coat, attack fighters, and mainly serve as support.

Based on most matches, if I'm able to setup and predict correctly from the first turn, the match is usually over and done with quickly, but I've had matches where bad first turns costed me dearly. The teams I seem to have most trouble against are from certain sucker punchers, some trick-room or bulky teams, and those that outstall tailwind effectively, and therefore at this point, I'm looking for suggestions, recommendations, or other choices that can make this team any better.

 

[Fantom0]

Few things I can find wrong with this, but these are the things I can:

1) Whimsicott needs Beat Up when paired with Terrakion. To explain this, I'm going to use videogame format...

Whimsicott used Beat Up!
Whimsicott's attack!
Terrakion lost ~ 2 HP!
Terrakion's attack rose!
Terrakion's attack!
Terrakion lost ~ 2 HP!
Terrakion's attack rose!
Pokemon #3's attack!
Terrakion lost ~ 2 HP!
Terrakion's attack rose!
Pokemon #4's attack!
Terrakion lost ~ 2 HP!
Terrakion's attack rose!

Yes, that's 4 attack levels in one blow, and Terrakion still gets to attack.
2) I don't see the point in Musharna. As far as anyone knows, there will be no team preview, so unless your anti-TR is a general member of your main team, it's a bit pointless, as what happens when you use it and your opponent isn't using TR?

So not an awful lot I can recommend, but I hope I helped in some bizarre way!

 

[Wildfire]

First little nitpick, I would change Whimsicott's nature to timid and have it at the lowest attack iv. Also for the other non physical attackers, I would make the attack ivs as low as possible. I've seen some swagger teams going around so the lower the attack, the less damage confusion brings.

I do agree that beat up> than helping hand, but Whimsicott can not get encore with it. So unless encore can be replaced, helping hand would have to stay. I'm some what skeptical about no focus sash shandera just because of how many sucker punchs users are out there. The only choice for shandera would be to protect, which isn't the greatest defense. I see that Zoroak is in the back, so would shandera and zoroak ever be in the same battle? You could just have zoroak hold the fire jewel and give shandera the focus sash. When you need zoroak, just switch items.

Also zoroak doesn't seem to useful. But a way to make it better would be to have it change nature. Since it lacks in defense taking a little away, won't bother it much. Also you have counter, so giving it a hasty nature would let counter do more damage (if the attack didn't already bring it down to zero). Also fire jewel could be useful on zoroak if you make it a mixed sweeper. Instead of low sweep, try flamethrower which does a lot of damage to morobareu(the mushroom pokemon). I need to learn the english names soon. Basically for you, low sweep is a filler. Besides shandera and mushanna, you don't have much of a counter to morobareu.

I've almost never see taunt any more so I'm not sure how useful mental herb is now. It could be useful just as a precaution, but there might be better items.

Last little peice of advice, I see all your pokemon are male. I've seen attract on whimsicott occasionally. It wouldn't hurt to change the gender up a little so you are not as susceptible to that move.

Hope this helps.

 

[FMasamune]

Solid team, just a couple of things concerning me though.

1.) Like Wildfire said no competitive player really runs taunt anymore since everyone assumes that their opponent is running mental herb. However that's competitive players, and at a regional I'm sure many people will be running taunt, so I'd say it's safe to run mental herb for now.

2.) My main concern is a solid trick room lead though. Like say Musharna, Samurott or Scrafty, Jellicent leads. If they're running mental herb (which they most likely will, or they'll be able to bluff it) I can't really think of anything you can safely do to counter trick room. Maybe if you change quick guard on Terrakion to roar you can successfully switch out any tr users along with an Amoongus or something else that seems problematic.

3.) Just a personal preference is to run more bulk over speed on a tailwind team. Like change Terrakion to an Adamant nature, and take off the speed evs and run max hp. This will help you survive longer while setting up tailwind, and you'll still easily out speed everything.

4.) This is another personal thing. I find it not good to run Chandelure or Jellicent in the back of a tailwind lead. Because say Bisharp is out for your opponent, and you have Chandelure and Jellicent out. When you're trying to protect predicting the sucker punch on one of your Pokemon, even if you're right you're ultimately stalling your own tailwind out. I'd personally more bulky, hard hitting Pokemon in the back.

5.) Like Fantom0 said Beat Up on Erufuun is an extremely useful move, especially under tailwind.

Hope I helped a bit and good luck in your team building!

 

[ΩDonut]

Put Substitute over Psychic on Chandelure. You have plenty of other things that can hit Fighting-types, but it looks like the only thing that can really handle Bisharp without being Sucker Punched is Terakion. Substitute will put a stop to it, as Huy can attest.

Also, to everyone suggesting Beat Up Erufuun -- the fact that most people recognize it as a great strategy means that good players will be prepared for it.

 

[tofucocoa]

and the fact it doesn't activate Justified 4 times makes it suck, though Beat Up+King's Rock is worth considering for sweet trolling satisfaction

 

[ΩDonut]

and the fact it doesn't activate Justified 4 times makes it suck, though Beat Up+King's Rock is worth considering for sweet trolling satisfaction

It does activate 4 times, so long as you have 4 healthy Pokemon on your team.

 

[Havak]

I do quite like the idea of Beat Up on Whimsicott, I think you should at least put it into testing. Despite more experienced players knowing what's coming, I'd honestly expect that it'll help out in at least the Regional you go to. Taunt is probably the move you're most likely to replace, I don't think you'll really use it enough (although you'll know this more than me from testing).

The main offensive core of your team is perfectly fine, but I agree with OmegaDonut's suggestion - replace Psychic with Substitute on Chandelure for reasons already stated.

Without team preview (which I'm very much doubting for Regionals at least) I'm failing to see a real need for Musharna, I see it being more dead-weight than anything else. I'm going to say maybe test out Hydreigon as your final Pokémon - I know it's an additional Fighting-type weakness, but you already have an okay match up with Fighters. I reckon it'd combo well with Jellicent, as you can use Surf to increase your HP, then fire off higher power Water Spouts. Hydreigon can also gain plenty coverage, so another hard hitter like that on a Tailwind team looks good to me.

I like the team though, I'd be surprised if you didn't do well at a Regional with something like this.

 

[Cybertron]

Great team EE: I've been testing something like this and might use it at VGC's this year.

Curious just because I'm a big scrub: How do you counter something like Beat Up + Justified?

 

[JRank]

Great team EE: I've been testing something like this and might use it at VGC's this year.

Curious just because I'm a big scrub: How do you counter something like Beat Up + Justified?

Something that can take a +4 STAB Rock Slide and KO back. (Musharna/Scrafty leads can (usually) do this.

For the team, I can't see any changes that the guys above me haven't already suggested.

 

[ΩDonut]

I reckon it'd combo well with Jellicent, as you can use Surf to increase your HP, then fire off higher power Water Spouts.

That reminds me, if you're not going to run Surf Hydreigon, Jellicent should have Cursed Body instead of Water Absorb. Unless you have teammates that heal Jellicent with Surf, that 30% chance of disabling a move gives you more of an edge.

Great team EE: I've been testing something like this and might use it at VGC's this year.

Curious just because I'm a big scrub: How do you counter something like Beat Up + Justified?

A few off the top of my head:
- Conkeldurr or any other solid Rock resist. Terakion is forced to use Close Combat against it, and Conkeldurr's partner can take out Terakion.
- Fake Out against Terakion + Trick Room first turn
- Rage Powder draws away Beat Up
- Wide Guard + attack with partner

What I really don't like about Beat Up Whimiscott is that in my experience, it tends to be dead weight unless you max SpAttk\Speed and give it Giga Drain or something. So when your opponent does manage to take out Terakion, you're vulnerable while you switch out Whimicott for a useful Pokemon, and that is one of the most common reasons Whimiscott+Terrakion teams lose.

 

[Fantom0]

So that's why my team sucks :/

Anyways, with a better look at the team, I would recommend replacing Zoroark with Landorus. Musharna greatly supports Landorus, in Helping Hand/Telepathy, and Explosion has great use with two ghosts on your team too.

Personally, I run Sacred Sword on Terrakion. This way his reasonable bulk (against NE moves) isn't removed. Sacred Sword deals enough damage anyway.

I don't know whether you prefer Beat Up or Encore on Whimsicott (since both attacks take advantage of Protect), but I can safely say it depends on what your team is trying to do: if it's all-out, I'd say Beat Up, as you can work your way around Amoonguss with Taunt.

 

[Expert Evan]

Thanks for the feedback so far as I've had the chance to try out using Whimsicott with Beat Up to get terrakion's justified to activate 4 times at the start and has done amazingly well on random wifi even against non-VGC team though main goal is for VGC purposes. While infrared makes musharna almost useless, there is one other pokemon that I've been trying out on random wifi and it's done really well for me so far:

Thundurus (M) @ Charti Berry
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderwave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Grass Knot

Prankster and thunderwave stop other tailwind pokemon in their tracks, and charti berry made it able to survive a justified terrakion's rock slide while dealing damage with electric and grass moves other members were lacking.

Edit: battle video demonstrating power of beat up can be seen in battle videos here: 14-97385-52542

 

[infernape-5]

i think the Chandelure should have energy ball instead of psychic it would be good against many rock/ground/water types