DP Gengar

Gengar definitely needs a revamp as shown by dougs statistics. Also some of the sets were really messed up like Life Orb sweeper. Changed a lot of things around so get ready.

thanks to:
Great Sage - MAJOR editing
Max - giving me the ok to do this and telling me some advice.
Junior - support and helping me decide a set
Matty - support and helping me decide some stuff

current: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gengar

[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Thunderbolt
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Gengar's best set may be the Life Orb set as it can sweep many teams in the blink of an eye. The goal is to simply take down opponents with its high Special Attack and Speed stat and to use Hypnosis on any counter that comes before it.</p>

<p>What makes this set so deadly is that Gengar has access to Hypnosis, a move that has a 70% chance to sleep the opponent. Gengar has very few counters, so Hypnosis can easily put to sleep those few counters the opponent might have. This is a perfect way to take down threats like Blissey; simple utilize Hypnosis to immobilize it and then abuse Focus Blast to take it down.</p>

<p>Gengar has a wide variety of special attacks and makes great use of them. Shadow Ball and Focus Blast will be able to hit every Pokemon in the game neutrally and when combined with Life Orb will beat almost anything. Shadow Ball will be Gengar's general attack and can 2HKO Pokemon such as Infernape and Heracross. Focus Blast will usually OHKO Pokemon who resist Shadow Ball, such as Tyranitar. Thunderbolt is the last attack on the set and can help you take out Pokemon like Vaporeon and Gyarados.</p>

<p>Gengar's high Speed and Special Attack should always be the your first priority. Gengar isn't too interested in boosting its poor defenses unless it runs Will-O-Wisp, as doing so will often have little effect.</p>

<p>An alternate EV spread of 136 Atk / 120 SpA / 252 Spe can be used if Gengar has Explosion. Explosion will always OHKO Blissey and can take out almost any weakened threat. However, losing any of the current moves is a huge loss to Gengar and it is the reason why the current spread is listed as the main option. Focus Punch could also be used for Tyranitar and Weavile, but considering Focus Blast will OHKO them anyway, there is no real reason to include it. Bear in mind that max Special Defense Tyranitar will survive Focus Blast though. Hidden Power Ice will OHKO Garchomp and Salamence and can be considered as an option over Thunderbolt.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Gengar boasts 525 Speed with a Choice Scarf, outspeeding max Speed Deoxys-S and Choice Scarf Garchomp.</p>

<p>It is simple to revenge kill and revenge killing is what Gengar does. Shadow Ball will always OHKO Deoxys-S and opposing Gengar, who think they might have a chance at outspeeding you. It also has the added bonus of OHKOing Azelf and Starmie, threats that would normally outspeed you under standard conditions. Focus Blast can be a godsend at times, especially when you find yourself fighting a Tyranitar with one or two Dragon Dances. Being able to OHKO Tyranitar as well as outpacing it even after 2 Dragon Dances is something very few Pokemon can boast. Thunderbolt is to give you a reliable Gyarados killer, even after a few Dragon Dances. Thunderbolt also will kill unsuspecting Ninjaskand Yanmega. Hidden Power Ice is the perfect revenge killer attack for Salamence and Garchomp, resulting in disastrous consequences for the opponent.</p>

<p>Timid nature may seem like overkill on Gengar, but it provides you enough Speed to always outpace Deoxys-S, something that most Pokemon are incapable of achieving. Special Attack is still important on this set and should be taken advantage of with 252 Special Attack EVs.</p>

[SET]
name: Counter Sash
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Counter
move 3: Destiny Bond / Explosion
move 4: Shadow Ball
item: Focus Sash
nature: Hasty
evs: 136 Atk / 120 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Gengar makes a perfectly viable anti-lead in D/P and should always be considered for its ability to take out half of the opponent's team under ideal conditions.</p>

<p>Counter and Hypnosis allow you to take down any almost any leads. Counter will easily take down any physical attackers preying on Gengar's low Defense. Hypnosis will put to sleep any opponent you have doubts about such as Salamence who can attack on both sides of the spectrum. The next attack is the final chain of this process, sacrificing Gengar to take out an opponent. Destiny Bond works extremely well, especially if used after Counter. The opponent may try for a quick kill and will be immediately killed once they it does so. Explosion also makes for a great attack, finishing off any Blissey who switch in. Shadow Ball is just a basic attack to use when you have nothing else to do. It could even wind up nabbing you a 4th kill.</p>

<p>This time, 136 Attack EVs is helpful for Blissey but if you plan on using Destiny Bond, you could just go for a simple 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed spread.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Gengar has a ton of other options to choose from. It can easily abuse Choice Specs and can be a terror to face if you are not prepared. However, Choice Specs Gengar is still easily counterable with wise prediction and therefore, isn't as remotely useful as the Life Orb set. Leftovers can be used if you fear recoil but the lack in power may prove to be devastating. Expert Belt is always helpful to avoid Life Orb's recoil and can be very powerful with the right attacks. However, Life Orb is the superior option unless running a set with Substitute.</p>

<p>Gengar obviously can utilize Substitute and Focus Punch fairly well to take out opponents like Blissey and Snorlax. Substitute also can block any status attempts on it. Sludge Bomb and Energy Ball are decent attacks, but their coverage is limited, and should not be used unless for a very specific threat such as Swampert or Shaymin. Will-O-Wisp can go perfectly with Hypnosis, creating a double status Gengar. Mean Look and Perish Song are interesting options and can be used for surprise, but Gengar generally has better things to do.</p>

[EVs]
<p>Maxing Special Attack and Speed is generally the most important thing to do. Gengar is not going to be taking any hits, so hitting hard and fast is a much more reliable plan. As mentioned earlier, 136 Attack EVs will allow it to always OHKO Blissey with Explosion, so be sure to consider that piece of information when choosing Gengar.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Gengar is probably one of the most unpredictable Pokemon thanks to all of the usable options it has. With high Speed and Special Attack, strong special and physical attacks, and 3 immunities (2 of them to the most common attacking types), Gengar is a Pokemon that could be successful on any team.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Gengar has no true counters, as nothing can really switch in on its attacks and survive another one. Prediction is usually the best way to beat Gengar but if that doesn't set well with you, there are a few ways to make sure you stay safe.</p>

<p>Weavile and Tyranitar are both great ways to kill Gengar, especially since he won't switch out in fear of Pursuit. Focus Blast can easily wreck this strategy though, so be wary of that when switching in. Other strong Pursuiters include Metagross and Honchkrow, the latter is capable of Sucker Punch as well. In fact, Honchkrow makes a great Gengar counter thanks to Insomnia preventing Hypnosis.</p>

<p>Spiritomb is a great Gengar counter and Sleep Talk sets can absorb Hypnosis. Other Ghost-types such as Banette and Dusknoir fare well thanks to Shadow Sneak and Insomnia/Pressure. Blissey can heal off sleep with Natural Cure, and will take small damage from Gengar's attacks. Explosion may OHKO though be watch out.</p>

<p>Bronzong and Jirachi can make short work of Gengar, but Hypnosis alongside Shadow Ball can make quick work of these counters.</p>

<p>Gengar relies on its Speed, so paralysis is also a perfect way to completely shut it down.</p>
 
I would include Explosion as an option over Thunderbolt on the main set. You should also mention how using a 29 HP IV actually saves HP over time when using LO.

But that may just be me. I'm not a "nitpicky" person, but someone will probably get to that in a second.
 
Ah well, very true, but there's still the thing about Explosion. I would also list Hypnosis as an option on ScarfGar, or at least make a mention of it in the set comments. Probably something like "if you have Gyarados or Dragons taken care of quite well by the members of your team, feel free to replace either Hidden Power [Ice] or Thunderbolt with Hypnosis, as it allows you to get an extra-quick sleep in the case that your opponent has something too troublesome for the rest of your team to handle."

I don't know, but I see people use it all the time. =/
 

gec

pharos
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Focus Punch could also be used for Tyranitar and Weavile, but considering Focus Blast will OHKO them anyway
"Specially Defensive" Tar can survive a LO Focus Blast, so you may wanna mention that.

Thunderbolt is to give you a reliable Gyarados killer, even after 2 Dragon Dances.
Change Few to 2 Dragon Dances.

Gengar is probably one of the most unpredictable Pokemon thanks to all of the usable options it has. With high Speed and Special Attack, strong special andphysical attacks, and3 immunities
You forgot to space some stuff in this sentence.
 
A Focus Punch set should definately be in the analysis. It doesn't just shut down Gengar's counters, it kills this. At least it should be in other options, but since it has a unique EV spread I think it deserves its own set.
 
<p>Gengar's best set may be the Life Orb set as it can sweep many teams in the blink of an eye. The goal is to simply take down opponents with its high Special Attack and Speed stat and to use Hypnosis on any counter that comes before it.</p>
Forgot to space "stat" and "and".
 
I don't mean to sound conceited seeing as I wrote the current one, but does the Choice Scarf set really need a revamp? The only real important information it's missing is how it fares against Deoxys-S, which isn't worth a rewrite.

Gengar has very few counters, so Hypnosis can easily put to sleep those few counters the opponent might have.
"few counters" doesn't make much sense here seeing as most people will only let one Pokemon get put to sleep.

As mentioned earlier, 136 Attack EVs will allow it to always OHKO Blissey with Explosion, so be sure to consider that piece of information when choosing Gengar.</p>
only with LO

and 3 immunities (2 of them to the most common attacking types)
Fighting and ground are fairly common types, but they're not the most common

Gengar is a Pokemon that could be successful on any team.
"could be successful on any team" isn't saying much. It would probably sound better rephrased as "Gengar is a Pokemon that can be a danger to any team", or something like that.

but if that doesn't set well with you, there are a few ways to make sure you stay safe.</p>
sit well, not set well
 
An alternate EV spread of 136 Atk / 120 SpA / 252 Spe can be used if Gengar has Explosion. Explosion will always OHKO Blissey and can take out almost any weakened threat.
On the LO set you made a mistake. It will only be a OHKO on 148 HP / 252 Def - Bold Blissey if Gengar is Hasty so you should mention that because the nature you are recommending in your set is Timid.
Timid Gengar with 136 Atk Evs and LO equipped does 93.46% - 110.03% damage to the above Blissey (OHKOs 41% of the time).
Hasty Gengar with 136 Atk Evs and LO equipped does 103.92% - 122.38% damage to the same Blissey.

[SET]
name: Counter Sash
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Counter
move 3: Destiny Bond / Explosion
move 4: Shadow Ball
item: Focus Sash
nature: Hasty
evs: 136 Atk / 120 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
...
This time, 136 Attack EVs is helpful for Blissey but if you plan on using Destiny Bond, you could just go for a simple 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed spread.</p>
You have a similar mistake on the counter-sash set. This time you recommend hasty nature but the 136 Attack EVs are wasted on explosion if you are not using Life Orb because you will never get a OHKO on the Blissey mentioned above.
 

junior

jet fuel can't melt steel beams
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Thunderbolt
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Gengar's best set may be the Life Orb set as it can sweep many teams in the blink of an eye. The goal is to simply take down opposing Pokemon with its high Special Attack and Speed stat, and with Hypnosis, its sweeping ability is further boosted as its counters would be unable to do anything.</p>
Opponent generally refers to the person battling.

Its goal isn't to sleep something really. So I rephrased the last bit.

<p>What makes this set so deadly is that Gengar has access to Hypnosis. Gengar has very few counters, so Hypnosis can easily put to sleep those few counters the opponent might have. This is a perfect way to take down threats like Blissey; simple utilize Hypnosis to immobilize it and then abuse Focus Blast to take it down.</p>
Removed "
a move that has a 70% chance to sleep the opponent" as it is general knowledge.

<p>Gengar has a wide variety of special attacks and can make great use of them. Shadow Ball and Focus Blast will be able to hit every Pokemon in the game for at least a neutral damage, and when combined with Life Orb, Gengar will beat almost anything. Shadow Ball is Gengar's main form of attack. It can 2HKO Pokemon such as Infernape and Heracross. Focus Blast will usually OHKO Pokemon who resist Shadow Ball, such as Tyranitar. Thunderbolt is the last attack on the set and can help you take out Pokemon like Vaporeon and Gyarados.</p>
Needs more modality, KD, thus the "can make".

"For at least neutral" for consistency in all the analysis.


[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hypnosis
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
It may be Choiced, but Hypnosis is still a viable option and should be listed. Hypnosis on ScarfGar makes it one of the fastest sleeper, giving it a slight advantage.

Now, from what I have seen and noticed while using ScarfGar with HP Ice is that it is virtually useless more than half the time. It's only really good for Garchomp and perhaps Salamence really.

Modest is also a viable option and should also be listed. Timid lacks the firepower Modest has.

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Gengar boasts 525 Speed with a Choice Scarf, outspeeding max Speed Deoxys-S.</p>
Don't think ' and Choice Scarf Garchomp' is necessary as Gengar is already naturally faster than Chomp.

<p>This Gengar's job is simple, to revenge kill. Shadow Ball will always OHKO Deoxys-S and opposing Gengar, who think they might have a chance of outspeeding you. It also has the added bonus of OHKOing Azelf and Starmie, threats that would normally outspeed you under standard conditions. Focus Blast can be a godsend at times, especially when you find yourself up against a Tyranitar with one or two Dragon Dances. Being able to OHKO Tyranitar as well as outpacing it even after 2 Dragon Dances is something very few Pokemon can boast. Thunderbolt is to give you a reliable Gyarados killer, even after a couple of Dragon Dances. Thunderbolt also will kill unsuspecting Ninjask and Yanmega. Hidden Power Ice is the perfect revenge killer attack for Salamence and Garchomp.</p>
Rephrased "It is simple to revenge kill and revenge killing is what Gengar does." as it's too repetitive etc.

Couple > Few in that sentence.

Removed "res
ulting in disastrous consequences for the opponent." as it is too biased and isn't necessarily true.

[SET]
name: Counter Sash
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Counter
move 3: Destiny Bond / Explosion
move 4: Shadow Ball
item: Focus Sash
nature: Hasty
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Uhh.. You don't even have Explosion as a priority move so focus the EVs on the 'recommended / prioritized' moves. Shift "136 Atk / 120 SpA / 252 Spe" into set comments imo.

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Gengar makes a perfectly viable anti-lead in D/P and should always be considered for its ability to take out half of the opponent's team under ideal conditions.</p>


Overstatement and too much exaggeration. It certainly can't take out half of the opponent's team. It can probably take out 2 at best. Taking out 3 pokemon being taken out by this is way too rare. I'd probably just put usually takes out 2 Pokemon.

<p>Counter and Hypnosis combined with Shadow Ball allow you to take down any almost any leads. Counter will easily take down most physical attackers preying on Gengar's low Defense. Hypnosis will put to sleep any opponent you have doubts about such as Salamence, who usually runs the mix set. The next attack is the final chain of this process, sacrificing Gengar to take out an opponent. Destiny Bond works extremely well, especially if used after Counter. The opponent may try for a quick kill and will be immediately killed once they it does so. Explosion also makes for a great attack, finishing off any Blissey who switch in. Shadow Ball is just a basic attack to use when you have nothing else to do. It could even wind up nabbing you a 4th kill.</p>
Hypnosis doesn't exactly take out anything by itself so I added the SB comment besides it.

Not 'Any', but 'most'. Pokemon that outspeed it can easily nullify its chance to Counter it.


[Other Options]
<p>However, Choice Specs Gengar is still easily counterable with wise prediction and therefore, isn't as remotely useful as the Life Orb set. </p>
Counterable isn't a word.

<p>Gengar obviously can utilize Substitute and Focus Punch fairly well to take out its counters like Blissey and Snorlax.</p>
[EVs]
<p>Maxing Special Attack and Speed is generally the preferable EVs to go with. Gengar is not going to be taking any hits, so hitting hard and fast is a much more reliable plan. As mentioned earlier, 136 Attack EVs will allow it to always OHKO Blissey with Explosion, so be sure to consider that piece of information when choosing Gengar.</p>
Maxing Speed and SpA isn't exactly 'important', just preferable!!


I really want to see the SubPuncher up as it is viable and can work really well because it has no definite counter. It is a big threat to most teams too, as half of them aren't even prepared for it.
 
...
Explosion may OHKO though be watch out.</p>
...
It should be "Explosion may OHKO though, watch out" or "Beware of Explosion, it has a chance to OHKO Blissey".

I think the counters section needs some work. For one, only ScarfTyranitar can afford to come in on Gengar, on Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt and outspeed and KO. Specially defensive Tyranitar falls to Life Orb Modest Gengar regardless as Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt and the follow up Focus Blast will always KO, and taking Hypnosis into account it isn't a reliable switch-in.

Honchkrow isn't a reliable counter due to its lackluster defenses and typing, meaning that LO Focus Blast from Modest Gengar will OHKO 46% of the time, and Thunderbolt will OHKO all the time. It isn't a reliable switchin to Shadow Ball either considering it does 45% minimum which is a sizeable chunk, meaning that it can only come in on Hypnosis. I feel you should replace that part or further explain the limitations of Honchkrow as a counter.

I doubt that Dusknoir can function as a counter without Choice Band, as Gengar 2HKOs with Shadow Ball while Dusknoir is unable to KO back with Shadow Sneak, unless it has a Choice Band, has a +Attack nature and invests at least 208 Attack EVs.
Banette is OHKOed by LO Shadow Ball, and also is weakened severely by Thunderbolt (42% min with max HP / max SpD +nature, 252 HP (recommended spread in analysis), take 64% minimum.

I think you should add these parts in the analysis, and also add in other counters. I feel Calm Special Defence oriented Zapdos should deserve a mention, taking a maximum of 44% from LO Modest Shadow Ball. It can also absorb Sleep with Sleep Talk and threaten Gengar with its attacking moves.

Snorlax should also deserve a mention, taking a maximum of 57% from LO Focus Blast (recommended spread in the analysis, Careful 244 HP / 236 SpD), and dealing a sizeable amount back with Crunch. Choice Band Snorlax also deserves a mention being able to trap Gengar with Pursuit, taking it out if it switches, or Crunch which will OHKO. Snorlax also commonly carries Sleep Talk so you should mention it as a sleep absorber.

The "Trapper" Scizor in the analysis is a viable counter if it comes in on Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt.

In Blissey's case I think the sentence mentioning "Blissey can heal off sleep with Natural Cure" should be rephrased somewhat, mentioning that Blissey cannot do anything back to Gengar while it is asleep.

I also feel Modest should be an option on the Life Orb set, or in EVs, if you want to sacrifice the ability to outspeed neutral natured Dugtrio, +nature base 100s, 102 (Garchomp) and 108 (Infernape).

I would support putting the SubPuncher up, its in another peer edit here posted by Aldaron.
 

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