Metagame Cross Evolution

Dorsia · Thursday at 3:23 PM

Here some nice sets you can use:

:primeape:

+

Samurott-Hisui (Primeape) @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Scarf
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Ceaseless Edge
- Sacred Sword
- Encore / Taunt / Razor Shell

Ceaseless Edge is such a strong move, one of the best of this gen imo. :espeon:

and

variants can't stop spikes stacking and it does strong damages. Encore/Taunt can break through defensive mons while Sacred Sword is a stronger Close Combat with 0 counterparts while ignoring defense boosts. Razor Shell is mainly here to hit effectively :hippopotas:

/

variants.
nb: :Bisharp:

can perform a similar role with higher Atk but less Spe.

:stantler:

into

Hariyama (Stantler) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Facade
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off

Fake Out activates Guts safely and strong priority is always appreciated. Facade/Drain Punch/Knock Off gives you the coverage you need.

:girafarig:

into

Volcarona (Girafarig) @ Kee Berry / Leftovers / Colbur Berry
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Stored Power
- Fiery Dance
- Morning Sun

This one is 100% theoretical lol. Max investment in HP/Def to be bulkiest as possible. Kee Berry + Flame Body can be a good combo yet Colbur Berry exists if Knock Off scares you. Fiery Dance hits Dark Types while potentially increasing SP base power.
Dark types are very strong in this meta so you need to build around it.

Delibird Heart · Thursday at 3:28 PM

I feel like shed tail or just sceptile as a cross evo (since the only 2 other users are cyclizar and orthworm which haven't made any waves in the past) warrants being looked at. It has the same issues it used to in OU and allows for some pretty unfair strategies. Especially in a meta where basically anything could get it, including something with absurdly high base HP like Chansey, or just a very fast mon like Electabuzz which still has decent hp.

smellslikememe · Thursday at 3:56 PM

Delibird Heart said:
I feel like shed tail or just sceptile as a cross evo (since the only 2 other users are cyclizar and orthworm which haven't made any waves in the past) warrants being looked at. It has the same issues it used to in OU and allows for some pretty unfair strategies. Especially in a meta where basically anything could get it, including something with absurdly high base HP like Chansey, or just a very fast mon like Electabuzz which still has decent hp.

Shed Tail is under consideration, expect a vote at some point.

As for other tiering action, the council is considering unbans to retest for OMotM; no guarantees yet, but if anyone has anything specific to discuss regarding potential unbans the floor is open.

EDIT: unrelated; some up-to-date sample teams will be up shortly. While most of the samples are legal, many of them are extremely outdated and built in a pre-DLC/pre-Tera ban metagame.

Imperator Romanum · Friday at 6:24 AM

I had no idea Shed tail was legal, ended up getting destroyed on the ladder today. Shed tail really shouldn't be allowed

Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9crossevolution-2116873601-jt6a2p4xqhn1eu6i6slp5io0zpiknqfpw

Imw0rstadP0keM0n · Friday at 12:04 PM

Imperator Romanum said:
I had no idea Shed tail was legal, ended up getting destroyed on the ladder today.

It's an artifact of the time when the only shed tailers were Cyclizar and Orthworm, both making it obvious which teams relied on it (running very suboptimal pokemon) and therefore counterable. But with things like Chansey Sceptile this strat is both much harder to predict from team load and much stronger in general.

Delibird Heart · Friday at 12:51 PM

Yeah this stuff is ridiculous lol, I just hit rank 1 and 2 on separate alts with it, the second using only shed tail HO from 1000 to #1...

The sooner it goes the better, but perhaps this also highlights the overhwelming nature of some other mons in the tier such as:
- bisharp X tinkaton who can bypass almost all common defensive answers thanks to mold breaker + gigaton hammer, and is also difficult to deal with offensively because of sucker punch (although answers exist in the form of primeape x tsareena for example, those fold once u get passed a substitute from chansey)
- mudbray x cloyster who's unboosted icicle spear is sufficiently strong to defeat most unaware mons before they are able to set up on you, and who kills almost the whole tier after 1 shell smash because of how amazing ground/ice is offensively
- gligar x hitmonlee which is similarly strong, with unburden too to defeat offense, sort of hawlucha on crack

Even if shed tail ends up going, these mons are very strong in their own right and may remain problematic on a screens team for example, which would also give them ample room to set up, similar to shed tail support. I don't know if this should warrant action tbh because I'm very new to the tier and I don't have the experience to make that sort of call, but they definitely feel very very strong.

TDLoriat · Friday at 6:10 PM

Ceruledge (Kubfu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Poltergeist
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
The only thing that can resist you is a ghost/normal type and you boast enough power behind your stabs to chunk or KO huge swathes of the metagame, especially after a swords dance.

Froggologgo · Saturday at 6:12 AM

Hi, when I nickname my Pokémon they don’t chang, what should I do

smellslikememe · Saturday at 8:10 AM

Tiering action was promised, and thus tiering action was taken:

Shed Tail and Espathra are banned! Gholdengo and Speed Boost are unbanned!
:sv/sceptile:

Slate: (YES-NO-ABS)

Action	anaconja	Dark Koopatrol	DosDogs	Gimlaf	PQRDG	smellslikememe	Zuldaar	Result
Ban Shed Tail	YES	YES	YES	YES	ABS	YES	ABS	5-0-2 BAN
Unrestrict Gholdengo	ABS	YES	ABS	YES	NO	YES	ABS	3-1-3 UNBAN
Unban Speed Boost + Restrict Espathra	YES	YES	YES	ABS	YES	ABS	ABS	4-0-3 UNBAN

Reasoning:

If you have played in the past 2 days, you will know that Sceptile-based Shed Tail users currently have a stranglehold on the meta, often outright winning games in less than ten turns by passing absurd HP substitutes to potent setup sweepers. Its influence is generally unhealthy and is agreed upon as broken, so the council was mostly unanimous in this ban vote.

Gholdengo was restricted in a period where the meta was relatively undeveloped and was never retested since. However, the DLC changed things quite a bit, and aside from an influx of checks (both offensive and defensive), the absence of Tera also reduces the variability in checking any particular Gholdengo evo. The council acknowledges that there is a distinct possibility that Gholdengo as an evo may still possibly be an unhealthy influence, but given its long absence from the meta is still worth retesting.

This was an idea that had been thrown around for quite some time, and it was generally considered a matter of due course for this slate. Speed Boost was not previously seen as a broken element in past gen metagames, but Espathra introduced broken elements with its combination of setup + Stored Power. With the absence of Tera and the introduction of other Speed Boosters, the council still believes that Espathra itself is likely still broken, but other Speed Boost donors are worth testing.

Tagging dhelmise to implement, thanks in advance!

InkyDarkBird · Saturday at 8:34 AM

Why is Gholdengo being unbanned if the majority of the council did not even vote to unban it? The vote is 3-1-3. Shouldn’t the undecided council members have more time and analysis to review Gholdengo?

Notgamingreally · Saturday at 9:20 AM

Idk take it up with smogon voting this isn’t council’s problem that abstain isn’t do not unban.
Also submitting this https://pokepast.es/96ab1c0f0e9c2004 as a sample team, works pretty well.

Imperator Romanum · 2024-05-07T12:01:31-0400

I peaked, take alook.

Shed Tail is still allowed on the ladder btw dhelmise

This guy really is the face of the meta right now! Whether you run HO, offense, balanced, semi-stall or pure stall you cannot go wrong with Gligar. With arguably one of the top five best type combinations, tremendous physical bulk, solid offenses and a great movepool Gligar is, imo, S+ rank in cross evolution. It's the defining threat.

:Gligar:

Offensively the most threatening set imo. This thing is absolute monster, reminds me of Mega Salamence in OU. 140/129/145 defences is wild when paired with 190. I've ran EQ, Dual Wingbeat, Dragon Dance and Taunt to shred teams. Taunt means your opponents can't use recovery, status inducing moves or phazing to beat you. The unaware mons you usually can't beat you 1v1 with taunt. However, there is one counter...

:Gligar:

Ironically, and fittingly, the best counter is the to Gligar Gyarados is Gligar Milotic! With Marvel Scale activate you have a whopping 484 HP & 703 defence. Since it attacks on the special side with Earth Power, Ice Beam/Scald there's nothing opposing Gliars can do.

There's plenty of other sets and opportunities, feel free to drop some other options!

I've also been experimenting with some Ubers staples to see if they hold up in the current meta! I've had some success with DD :necrozma-dusk-mane:

and

. With stabs that ignore abilities :necrozma-dusk-mane:

is able to muscle through unaware mons and :koraidon:

is a good check to offensive teams & weather wars. Pretty solid!

Here's a bunch of Gligar sweeps!

Iynhe · 2024-05-07T17:23:43-0400

My time to shine!
Other than Sheer Force Life Orb, another cool thing I like to try in CE is Illusion.
These were done the last time CE was otmotm, iirc. Or even the time before.

Gyarados (Mankey) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- U-turn

Zoroark-Hisui (Glimmet) @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Power Gem
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Rock Polish

Noivern (Salandit) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Frisk
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast
- Boomburst
- U-turn

Armarouge (Litleo) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Armor Cannon
- Hyper Voice
- Energy Ball
- Taunt

Venomoth (Zorua-Hisui) @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Shadow Ball
- Giga Drain
- U-turn

Forretress (Bramblin) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Power Whip
- Strength Sap

Well, Gyarados is free, so I paired it with (iirc) the mon (or one of the mons) with the highest attack among base mons.
Glimmet was chosen as the Illusion mon because it had a high spatk.
Salandit and Litleo should pressure special walls, in theory. Bramblin makes and removes hazards (i wanted to try something different at the time and I liked SSap. Zorua I thought it would be interesting with QD and Tinted Lens.

Sylveon (Bergmite) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pixilate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Hyper Voice

Clodsire (Dunsparce) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Haze
- Hyper Drill

Revavroom (Mudbray) @ Leftovers
Ability: Filter
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Facade
- Shift Gear

Zoroark-Hisui (Glimmet) @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Power Gem
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Rock Polish

Toxtricity (Stantler) @ Leftovers
Ability: Punk Rock
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Boomburst
- Thunderbolt
- Earthquake
- Shift Gear

Hariyama (Crabrawler) @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Thunder Punch

Pixilate rapid spin so it won't be stopped, plus fairy is a nice defensive type.
Dunsparce is simply a strong wall. Mudbray and Stantler are fun Shift Gear mons, and one being mixed is also more fun.
Same illusion mon as before. Crabrawler with Guts and CB is there to in theory hit hard.

Nothing in these two teams ever really worked for me, but I'm too bad a builder to waste more time to create something that should work.
If you want to try an Illusion mon, please do and have fun, but do it properly LMAO

Metagame Cross Evolution

Have you done the tiering survey?

Yes

I'll do it later

Dorsia

Delibird Heart

smellslikememe

Imperator Romanum

Imw0rstadP0keM0n

Delibird Heart

TDLoriat

Froggologgo

smellslikememe

InkyDarkBird

Notgamingreally

Imperator Romanum

Iynhe

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