From the voting thread it will probably get howl
[SET]
name: Attack boost
move 1: Howl / Dragon Dance
move 2: Wood Hammer
move 3: Flare Blitz
move 4: Rest / Synthesis
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Rock Head
nature: Impish
evs: 204 HP/252 Attack/52 Sp. Defence
[SET COMMENTS]
I know its not 100% that it will get an attack boost, but from what I have seen it probably will.
Anyway:
<Woodmans name> can happily sit behind its massive defences and boost its pathetic attack to usable levels, its twin 180 BP moves with no bad side affects help it greatly however together they are resisted by quite a few Pokemon most notably Salamence and Heatran (4x grass immune to fire) who can switch in and hit <Woodmans> weaker Sp. Defence.
You have the option of running Brick Break or HP Ice over a STAB attack or healing move to deal with specific counters, however with only one STAB move you will be much easier to wall and without healing you will be worn down.
If it gets Dragon Dance you could invest some evs in speed, here are some numbers to use:
252 evs lets you draw speed with + nature 252 base 100s after one DD.
196 evs means you will beat + nature 252 base 90s after one DD.
188 evs gives you 203 speed after one DD you will reach 304 enough to beat Adamant Garchomp.
124 evs and you beat will base 90s without a nature boost with one DD
70 evs and you beat 252 Heatrn with 1 DD
12 evs makes you outspeed 4 speed base 100s with one DD
[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Larva Plume / Fire Blast / Overheat?
move 2: Grass Knot / Leaf Storm
move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Ground / Rock
move 4: Zap Cannon / Shock Wave / Shadow Ball
item: Choice Specs
ability: Battle Armour
nature: Modest
evs:168 HP / 252 Sp. attack / 8 Sp. Defence / 84 Speed
[SET COMMENTS]
This Pokemon can switch in with ease using its great defences and hit almost everything quite hard, the choice of Hidden power depends on who you fear most Dragons, Heatran or Fire/Flyings.
[SET]
name: Sp. Sweeper
move 1: Charge Beam / Growth
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Hidden Power Ice/Ground/Rock / Rest / Synthesis
move 4: Larva Plume
item: Choice Specs
ability: Battle Armour
nature: Modest
evs: 224 HP / 252 Sp. attack / 32 Sp. Defence
[SET COMMENTS]
The only real problem with this set is that you will ether lack coverage or healing whichever moves you chose. You could drop a STAB move but that would leave you with a much weaker offence against those who resist your remaining STAB attack.
An Attack based set will defenitly make an apperance, but whether it will be in the form of a stat upping one of a choice one is yet to be decided. Personally, it doesn't need both. If people are so stupid they need an analysis to tell them how to make a generic 3 atk+howl or a 4 atk+CB then I'm not sure they should be operating such sophisticated machinery as a computer in the first place lol.
Same pretty much goes for Specs set. If I had to sum it up in one word it's "Generic", and the EV could do with actually being explaned as they seema tad all over the shot, which I'm sure there's a good reason for but I'm afraid I can't read minds XD.
Sp Sweeper will pro'lly make an apperance either as Growth / Charge Beam in other options or as Growth / Charge Beam being a note in another primarily Sp attacking sets comments.
EDIT: Decided one will probably be Choice and and the other Stat upping, ie one from each side of the spectrum (specs + Howl or Band + Growth). Most likely the first.
The Team Support set is already showing Slashitis. :(
[SET]
name: Basic tank
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Lava Plume / Flamethrower
move 3: Synthesis / Rest
move 4: Grass Knot
item: Leftovers
ability: Battle Armor
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 32 SpD / 88 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Use <woodman>'s amazing defenses to come in with ease, and start putting a hurt into opponents. Even with no SpA EVs, Grass Knot is a 3HKO on Tyranitar, Lava Plume can burn him and he will not enjoy Leech Seed either, so do not worry too much about him. Heal wounds with Synthesis or Rest when needed. Feel free to engage in stall wars if you please: Leech Seed and his immunity to critical hits will allow <woodman> to come out on top.</p>
I suppose a Rest/Sleep Talk set is in order, even if he does get Synthesis.
I'll probably end up blending quite a few of the defencive sets together in the end. Something like 3 sets total, Tank, Support and reSTalk.
Here is the set I have every intention of using when this is finally released.
[SET]
name: Tank #2
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Flamethrower
move 3: Rest
move 4: Toxic
item: Leftovers
ability: Battle Armor
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD Bold
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Slight variation from the main tank set, yet certainly worthy of a place in the analysis. Leech Seed and Toxic + Flamethrower yields a combination not feared by only Tentacruel, and Heatran to a lesser extent (though Heatran certainly does not appreciate the Leech Seed). Leech Seed hits every Pokemon sans Grass Types (and Clefable) and Toxic hits every Pokemon sans Poison Types (hit by Leech Seed) and Steel Types, and Fire STAB helps cover all of this. Rest is so opponent Pokemon with Toxic do not cripple you, and because Leech Seeding while Resting certainly allows Woodman to Rest without Sleep Talk, especially with its bulky nature.</p>
<p>The EVs are designed to allow Woodman great mixed walling potential. At 444 HP / 308 Def / 246 SpD, Woodman can switch into Stealth Rock and not be 2HKOed on average by both Adamant Garchomp's Outrage and Life Orb Timid Gengar's Shadow Ball (both have a 43.26% to 2HKO). <p>
<p>Obviously, Pokemon such as Choice Band Tyranitar, Choice Specs Togekiss, Choice Specs Heatran and the like can switch in easily with this set, but this does not mean that they switch in happily. The first two do not enjoy Toxic or Leech Seed, and Heatran is limited by Leech Seed. The need to carry a Grass move, a high powered Fire move with high Special Attack or Hidden Power Ground is not necessary for Woodman, as it can deal with its checks and counters simply by hitting them with Leech Seed or Toxic and switching out. Toxic and Leech Seed + STAB Flamethrower is a perfect addition to any Stall team.<p>
Nice, but is near certain to end up blended in with other sets. EVs have very good merits though.
[SET]
name: Sunny day
move 1: Fire Blast/Lava Plume
move 2: Grass knot/Solar beam
move 3: Synthesis/Aromatheropy/Reflect/Light screen/HP Ice/Ground/Rock/Fighting/Flare Blitz/Charge Beam
move 4: Sunny Day
item: Heat rock/Leftovers/Life orb/Salac/Petaya Berry
ability: Battle armour
nature: Modest
evs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/6 Hp
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Although its SpA and Spe are pretty low for this sort of thing, especially considering it has no Chlorophyll, it can pull off a sunny day set. If you don't have anything to counter a Heatran in the sun, please use HP Ground. Its not a great set, how easily counterd it is, and how low the returns are. Its there if you really need it anyway. </p>
[SET]
name: Cannon in D AKA Gambler
move 1: Zap Cannon
move 2: Swagger/Will-o-wisp/Charge Beam/Leech Seed
move 3: HP Ice/Ground
move 4: Fire Blast/Grass Knot/Lava Plume
item: Leftovers/Wise Glasses/Wide Lens
ability: Battle Armour
nature: Modest
evs: 252 SpA/252 Hp/6 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>If you feel really lucky (and I mean REALLY lucky), you could try this set. Switch into someone who will definitely switch out and Zap canon the switch in. HP ice means a lesser bolt beam, although considering his SpA, you'll be hard pressed to do much to any special wall. His second slot is essentially a utility. Choose your poison; Parafusion, Anti-wall, double status, stat up, etc.</p>
I'm not very good at set making...
Agreeing with Mekkah. These two are better suited to Other Options.
for espeon's dd attacking set, brick break should be the last option unless you want heatran walling you.
Will defenitly be mentioned in set comments, if not as a slash option.
Helios, your sets may as well be Zap Cannon and Sunny Day in Other Options...
Why are you guys making an analysis on an incomplete Pokemon? This thread is useless seeing how you guys are having moves that may not even be chosen to be in his arsenal.
And now that we have those moves, I fail to see an occasion where a set had to be majorly altered in order to accomodate for that change. Case closed.
latino added this to the comments of the DD set:
And Helios you have 10 options for moveslot 3 of the sunny day set and 5 items......
please narrow it down a lot.
and those sets do kinda fit in other options.
[SET]
name: Light Screen Tank
move 1: Light Screen
move 2: Rest / Synthesis
move 3: Leach Seed / Toxic
move 4: Larva Plume / Flamethrower
item: Leftovers / Light Clay
ability: Battle Armour
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP/ 216 Defence/ 40 Sp. Defence.
(From X-Acts cool ev thingy, with a +2 Sp. Def modifier)
[SET COMMENTS]
This thing has Skarmory like defence to start with so if you set up Light Screen not much can take you down (bar something like CBtar Stone Edge) with Leftovers+Leach Seed healing you and a recovery move.
Toxic could work over Leach Seed against those who can recover off Leach Seed damage and stall you out.
If you use Toxic then Flamethrower is better than Larva Plume as the burn chance would work against you.
Thinking of removeing Toxic and Flamethrower, comments?
LA cos we can and its fun, and the movepool bit is almost done anyway.
Improving the "Anti-Recoil" set.
[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Wood Hammer
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: Rock Tomb / Return
item: Choice Band
ability: Rock Head
nature: Adamant
evs: 168 HP / 252 Attack / 8 Sp. defence / 88 Speed
[SET COMMENTS]
With a CB and maxed out attack <woodman> reaches a decent 394 attack, this combined with his awesome bulkiness and twin 120 base power STAB moves (that lack recoil damage due to his ability) make him a force to be recond with, however his speed lets him down somewhat even with with max it would reach only 219 so it is better to invest in his defences.
For the last moveslot Rock Tomb lets you hit Flying/Fires and Dragons who resist all your other moves super effective, Return is a strong move and hits a lot neutral, Payback and Aerial Ace are pretty much the only other options.
I think Aldarons set could replace the subseed set, this thing is not fast enough to sub in the face of enemys.
Also I fixed up my sets with evs.
Light Screen will end up in the Support set. Thanks for EV ideas. Also thanks for replicating the set I specifically had in the OP for the purpose of stopping people writing the extreemly obvious. Thanks again.
Because most of the moves are accessory moves. Synthesis is easily replaceable by Rest on any set. If Howl/Curse/Dragon Dance don't make the cut, drop their set. Aromatheropy is only a secondary option and can easily be cut.
It's called a WIP - Work In Process. It's merely a head start. Thinking about the layout, what kind of movesets, etc. Many things we already know are 100% on him. We don't have to revamp the entire analysis if suddendly Aromatherapy doesn't make it.
So no, it is definitely not useless.
If you want my opinion:
Honestly, there are WAY too many movesets. It should be narrowed down to about two to four three sets because many of the movesets are repetitive. All the extra options, including the Choice Specs and Choice Band sets which don't really stand out so much, should be moved to Other Options where you can simply describe them briefly.
The "subseed" set ultimately goes against the slow, bulky nature of the Pokemon and should definitely be left out for the "Tank" set (Grass Knot/Lava Plume/Leech Seed/Rest), which should be the first set listed for its all-time usefulness. Basically, the set Mekkah posted, although I prefer Aldaron's EVs listed in his set for the calculations rather than outspeeding slow Tyranitar and friends.
The second set would most likely be the unofficial "Attack Booster" (Howl is winning by a long shot, Dragon Dance is losing by a few votes) because it seems to be unique enough to have its own mention.
...As for the rest, I honestly don't know. Aromatherapy, Light Screen, Reflect and all of that should depend on its usefulness if it wants to be included as its own set.
@ Aldaron: In my opinion, a toxic set shouldn't deserve its own place. Toxic is better off in the Other Options, simply because deterring common set up Pokemon with your double-STAB is much more useful for a stall team. Yeah, it's cool that it nails its counters nicely, but what real use is it unless you the wearing down of that counter helps you sweep an opponent's team?
Toxic generally gets a better place where it replaces a move that is not as prominent as a powerful second STAB attack (there are exceptions, but mostly in the older generations). It cannot instantly deter Pokemon such as Taunting DD Gyarados and Tyranitar without both of its complimenting STABs, and that is mostly why I think it is a weak set.
Subseed will indeed and up blended in with the three main defencive sets. But obviously every set here will not end up in the analysis. If there's something I've learnt from doing the previous analysis, it's to not feel constrained by the number of sets you feel an analysis should contain. Previously, it was like doing the analysis on a budget, attempting to stick to 3-4 sets. Quite frankly, this Pokemon has four moveslot syndrome to quite an extreme and to avoid slash-itis more than four sets is going to be necesary. I, nor anybody else, should feel limited by the percieved number of moveseets we think this Poemon should be allowed to have in the analysis. If the number of viable movesets was infinite than our analysis should reflect that, if you know what I'm saying. Look at the Clefable analysis if you need a good example. This Pokemons kind of in that boat.
Right so this thing will get:
-Synthesis
-Aromatherapy
-Howl
and will not get:
-Charge Beam
-Dragon Dance
-Curse
Well, prpare theeselves for ultimate penis-tastic fishy moveset!
Name: ScarfGuana
Move 1: Aerial Ace
move 2: Grass Knot/Energy Ball
move 3: Flare Blitz/Lava Plume/Overheat
move 4: Shadow Ball
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Rock Head
nature: Naive
EVs: 252 Speed/144 Attack/112 Sp.Attack
Explanation: With that Speed investment, ScarfGuana hits 360 Speed, fast enough to outrun Jolly Garchomp and Adamant Weavile. The Attack EVs are for letting Aerial Ace OHKO Heracross, and Grass Knot or Energy Ball cripples Gyara and Memepert.. The fire STAB is really preferential: Flare Blitz will do a good chunk of damage to Blissey, while Lava Plume is a good consistent move for Skarm and his volcanically-fearing friends, while Overheat runs just like any good old hit-and-run stratagem. Shadow Ball is for Gengar and ghosts, who would otherwise piss this thing over: He also outruns any Gengar that isn't scarfed!
Then there's this little bastard I call 'Son of the Chain'
Name: Son of the Chain
Move 1: Toxic/Will-o-Wisp
Move 2: Overheat/Leaf Storm
Move 3: Fire Blast/Grass Knot
Move 4: Flare Blitz/Wood Hammer/Brick Break
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head
Nature: Brave
EVs: 252 Attack/240 Sp.Attack/16 Sp.Defense
Explanation: Fuck me, what with not one, but TWO base 140 STAB moves running off special attack, can you really say that this guy is a diet version of Chain Chomp? What with hom focused on his Special Attack, Overheat and Leaf Storm will rape just about anything in sight. Brick Break can be used over the STAB recoil moves if you want to kill Heatran, FB and Grass Knot are best used in the way that they are pretty much backup for if you want to save the power moves for later. Another interesting feature is that Overheat has the vision of OHKOing Bronzong, which this bastard outruns, even with the -Speed nature. Toxic is best as an opener with it to lul the foe into a false sense of security, then raping when they send in something like Heracross to kill with Stone Edge.
No, I will not "prpare theeselves for ultimate penis-tastic fishy moveset".
Bastard, fuck, rape, bastard, rape. And that's all in one moveset.
Fix your language before you ever post a set to be concidered for an analysis again. None of those words were warented. None were in good humour and none contributed anything to this thread.
Right i want to give this a go.
name:sub special boost
move1:substitute
move2:growth
move3:flame thrower/lava plume
move4: Grass Knot/Energy Ball/
Item:leftovers
ability:battle armour
nature: modest/bold
Ev's: 252 hp/ 160def/ 96 sp.atk
Set comments: Max out hp so that the substitute can last a while and the give him 160 defense for the same reason. Use growth when sub is out to get his special attack higher so that you can get rid of the opposition. Until he is down.
name:sub physical boost
move1:substitute
move2:howl
move3:flair blitz
move4:wood hammer
item:leftovers
nature: adamant/impish
ability:rock head
Ev's: 252 hp/ 160 def/ 96 atk
set comments: pretty much the same as the above but with stronger moves.
These are just Erics set with Substitute added on :( If you have status use AT.
My comments on recently posted sets:
ScarfGuana
Scarf seams an odd way to go with mediocre at best attacking stats.
The moves are odd (AA? Shadow Ball? why not BB and Shock Wave?) and the STABs have /itus.
Son of the Chain
May be decent, but each move has 2 or more options, narrow it down please.
sub special boost
How does sub help him? Surely Rest would be far better, but then you have my sp. sweeper set.
sub physical boost
as above.
yeah he totally ripped off your sets lol :(
use substitute which will last about one-two turns and howl/growth until it is gone rest can't exactly do that can it? i guess i forgot to point that out i'll edit it. i already did put that there don't scan read Eric :p
Kind of doesn't work like that, you may aswell just let them attack you directly until you've statted up enough in that case. Status and F-Punch are really the only main uses for Substitute.
Well... it needs the moveslot, and the sub only has the HP you would have had anyway... so.. it blocks status, but rest does that anyway.
ok didn't see this post before I writ above comments.
Well i didn't base my set on healing i based it on sweeping/tanking.
I say for this guy, we just give all of the Choice Sets a mention in Other Options. None of them really stand out, and they are all basically the same thing: Fire Move/Grass Move/Filler/Filler.
I actually like the Mixed user, but it probably should have Special Grass moves and Physical Fire Moves. Something like:
- Leaf Storm
- Flare Blitz
- Brick Break
- Howl/Filler
Having your main physical attack type resisted 4x by Skarmory is bound to end badly. Fire is resisted by Water-types (as far as walls go), which is annoying, but there are more Steel type walls than Fire types.
Yeah I wouldn't mind a mixed set either, but it'll require quite a bit of thought and discussion.
<quote from Megalolz here> Jesus, please learn to write in the SCMS format before trying it. That is not how we write analyses at all. I also recommend to get into general strategy more, this thing has no real use for Sub without Seed.
Doug/other mod, you can close this now. I'll have analysis draft #1 up within the hour. TYVM :)
