Bless You Mekkah. (garchomp ttar discussion)

Jumpman16

np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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In a perfect world we can strive for a competitive battling scene with as few complaints as possible. But when you think about it, the VERY SAME reason that this discussion is going on here is the reason I am not a all inclined to strive towards such utilitarianism: much of the aforementioned complaints are coming from legitimate pokemon retards. These are battlers who haven't played for more than a month or two before crying that they are getting beaten by Garchomp all the time when their idea of a counter is an Ice Shard Weavile, or battlers convinced that U-turn by itself is a Wobbuffet counter. I'm not even exaggerating—I'm sure those of you who stomach Stark have seen such startling displays of a lack of basic pokemon mechanics and strategy. These aren't the kind of people whose complaints I am going to listen to—I would both rather and eagerly listen to smart, proven competitors like Hip.

We should, though, accept what you said in your previous post, that no tier system is going to be 100% balanced and therefore met with 100% acceptance. If we start there, we can gladly forget the (largely un- or misinformed) opinions of the masses, and attempt to determine amongst ourselves whether the banishment of Garchomp from standard play would be for the good of the game, or actually result in the "slippery slope" referenced above where Salamence and Heracross are next, and then Lucario, etc. I am much more inclined to keep Garchomp in, because, aside from the fact that I am inclined to buy into that admittedly fallacious slippery slope argument, I have been convinced since 2006 that it is impossible to counter everything in DP. All of us may be benefited by reading Surgo's treatise again, where he states that we should be building our teams with a goal in mind rather than trying to counter the myriad threats in DP, before turning our attention to whether Garchomp or Deoxys-S or Wobbuffet or Latios are indeed broken in a metagame that is more wide open than ever before simply because there are more pokemon than ever before.
 

cloud

groove, slam, work it back, filter that baby, bump
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cress was pretty much made to beat garchomp, i think.

i can't say i agree with you hip, simply because there are ways to deal with garchomp and tar, and i find a bit of a flaw in your argument (and your views, because i know that you love bronzong) when you say cress is useless but list bronzong as viable. cress and bronzong are akin in that they are walls and don't really hurt anything.

cress does suffer from the pursuit weakness but there are ways around that, too. i think my main quarrel with garchomp is sand veil, it's just such a fucking pain - outside of that, it's a manageable pokemon.
 

Hipmonlee

Have a nice day
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I dont love bronzong. If I could I would drop it in a heartbeat. But it can stealth rock, hypnosis and explode. When I see my opponents using cresselia my heart fills with joy, I remember like 2 battles I have had trouble with cresselia. But I am pretty sure I won both. If it is a good pokemon, I have yet to see any evidence of it.

Have a nice day.
 

Aeolus

Bag
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Jump and I had a discussion today on shoddy battle with Colin where it was decided that a new tier will be tested in which all formerly uber pokemon that Obi suggested in his stark thread will be allowed. I believe we should suspend discussion on the banning of Garchomp and Tyranitar until we can see the outcome of this new test. If it becomes apparent that the admission of Obi's suggested pokemon maintains an open metagame, I'd have to say that I suspect that both Garchomp and Tyranitar would would fall back in line... so to speak.
 

X-Act

np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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So should we post an announcement on Stark telling everyone to stop discussing the uber and OU tiers, promising the public that stuff will be tested eventually? It's useless for people to continue discussing Garchomp and stuff if this mentioned test is going to be held.
 
I think the solution Aeolus presented is much, much better than leaving the situation in the open as it is, however I still think that no matter how much you test, people will still disagree with how good certain Pokemon are.
 

Jumpman16

np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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And a lot of those people, as I stated above, are legitimate pokemon retards whose opinions on competitive pokemon should be largely ignored by us besides to hand out infractions for spouting trollish misinformation and generally not promoting anything even remotely resembling decent discussion.

I really like Obi's idea now that I understand the point behind it is to slowly determine what really overcentralizes the game starting from near-scratch. Just as importantly at the moment, I'm inclined to agree with X-Act that we should seriously consider banning talk about tiers (again) in Stark until Obi's proposed test is underway...especially given what Mekkah's mentioned about there never going to be 100% consensus anyway. Those threads are horrible, do not accomplish anything besides ensuring a half-dozen infractions at least, triple that in deleted posts, and are absolute magnets for idiocy and passionate strawmen.

yay for insomnia
 
Humpman16 said:
And a lot of those people, as I stated above, are legitimate pokemon retards whose opinions on competitive pokemon should be largely ignored by us besides to hand out infractions for spouting trollish misinformation and generally not promoting anything even remotely resembling decent discussion.
Obviously I am referring to semi-good to skilled players who are "not very satisfied" (to put it in a little soft way when it comes to how AA words things) about our current system. The idiocy supports both sides about equally with arguments like "Darkrai is a better Gengar" "no it has no immunities" etc which can altogether be named as void when it comes to making a decision.
 

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