Battle Tree Discussion and Records

I'm having trouble getting to 20 wins outside of the normal tree. (Yes, I tried pherolele, and after losing to Guzma at 10 I got my balloon popped.) The QR rentals do list teams, but they don't say which ones are newbie-friendly. All I want is the stamp, man...this would be my first time ever getting gold in something. Closest I've gotten before is 131 in the platinum battle hall (gold is 170) before misclicking with cb chomp, and that shit is really mind numbing.

Would be nice to get this off of my bucket list before moving on to some of the many other games that I should have beaten by now but haven't.
 
Forgot Quick Claw was even a thing in the tree! Well, I never!

Jokes aside, every gen has had at least one notoriously dangerous pain in the ass because of that item. DPP Metagross4 was a big one because of the good old Explosion mechanics back then. Donphan4 was also a bad apple until this gen. Now we have Incineroar4 and, as you've experienced, Drampa. IIRC the non-Steelixite packer has a Quick Claw as well.
Sounds like someone has just had the first of many experiences with Drampa-3, he soon will learn to hate him and Sina equally :D
 
Thank you thank you

EDIT: Also, another question about Red's stupid Zard X. How often does he Double Dragon Dance? Because I think I can get him if I switch my lead from Ninja to M-Blaziken. Start with Low Kick (speed boost) and it DDs, I protect (speed boost) *it does SOMETHING*, I EQ.

So does anyone know how often that 'SOMETHING' will be a second DD? I imagine it would be a Dragon Claw and then Metal Chicken should outspeed but I am not sure.
The way DDancers look to be coded seems to be "Always DDance once, DDance twice if outspeed wasn't reached OR 1hko potential is not reached".
In the case of Charizard-4, Altaria-4 and Latios-4 which are usually the scariest DDancers, this generally means DDance turn 1 then go for kill turn 2 as they already sport massive attack and high powered stabs (all 3 have access to 120 BP stabs on top of a second 100 BP or close to stab)

This also often leads to double ddances or even triple ddances if TR is up.

Obviously as per all things on tree take it with a grain of salt, but looks pretty consistent overally.
 
Sounds like someone has just had the first of many experiences with Drampa-3, he soon will learn to hate him and Sina equally :D
I’m mildly surprised it took him until now to have a bad run-in with a QC holder. I’ve always had plenty of run-ins with Hikers/Workers (and at least one of the cops is a ground user) and Steelix3 is one of those enemies I almost always see before long.

Steelix stands out because if I don’t see the pink mega evo swirl, 9/10 that thing is committing suicide. Even Lickilicky will often use up Breakneck Blitz first, if possible (I think Licky3 is also a QC holder lol)

Fun times ahead, Quaggy! Learn to loathe that fucking item. Kukui and Scientists will be among your favorite neighbors and they pack frequent quickies :D
 
The way DDancers look to be coded seems to be "Always DDance once, DDance twice if outspeed wasn't reached OR 1hko potential is not reached".
In the case of Charizard-4, Altaria-4 and Latios-4 which are usually the scariest DDancers, this generally means DDance turn 1 then go for kill turn 2 as they already sport massive attack and high powered stabs (all 3 have access to 120 BP stabs on top of a second 100 BP or close to stab)

This also often leads to double ddances or even triple ddances if TR is up.

Obviously as per all things on tree take it with a grain of salt, but looks pretty consistent overally.
This is very helpful thank you. So he will DD once for sure and since he is Jolly, my Adamant Blaziken's Speed Boost would still be slower. So if I protect on the next turn, Zard should outspeed and go for the OHKO.

Then a second Speed Boost on that turn would get Blaziken faster.

Does that logic follow with how the DDancers typically work?
 
This is very helpful thank you. So he will DD once for sure and since he is Jolly, my Adamant Blaziken's Speed Boost would still be slower. So if I protect on the next turn, Zard should outspeed and go for the OHKO.

Then a second Speed Boost on that turn would get Blaziken faster.

Does that logic follow with how the DDancers typically work?
If you using Blaziken, if they can threaten 1hko right away they might go for it, which leaves you in a risky spot. You also will likely not be able to 1hko even after a second speed boost allows you to outspeed, still putting you in the situation of "what if he doesn't ddance and still attacks" scenario.

But then, Charizard4 and Latios4 are generally a dreadful nightmare for all of us, mostly because they always come with set 3 as well, so you are in the position of "If i nuke it it might be the other set and not die, if i don't it might ddance and sweep me"

I’m mildly surprised it took him until now to have a bad run-in with a QC holder. I’ve always had plenty of run-ins with Hikers/Workers (and at least one of the cops is a ground user) and Steelix3 is one of those enemies I almost always see before long.

Steelix stands out because if I don’t see the pink mega evo swirl, 9/10 that thing is committing suicide. Even Lickilicky will often use up Breakneck Blitz first, if possible (I think Licky3 is also a QC holder lol)

Fun times ahead, Quaggy! Learn to loathe that fucking item. Kukui and Scientists will be among your favorite neighbors and they pack frequent quickies :D
To be honest Drampa3 (and glaceon) at least was pretty rare if not playing on Sun (damn you Sina). Steelix is rare and even when it shows up it isn't often a threat due to its stabs not being impressive, and Emboar/Incineroar sets also often aren't threatening even factoring in lucky QCs, same goes for Licki as you always imply it will seppuku turn 1 (like all other relevant Explosion users, I lost count of how many times Metagross3 just blows up right away).

I myself did not have a huge dread of Drampa and Glaceon until I did the rookie mistake of buying UltraSun instead of UltraMoon.


p.s. I'm trying to make TR work with Mega Obamasnow. Looks promising, made it to 50 already then lost like a noob to a disastrous turn 2 misplay. Really wish i had HA starters right now though.
 
If you using Blaziken, if they can threaten 1hko right away they might go for it, which leaves you in a risky spot. You also will likely not be able to 1hko even after a second speed boost allows you to outspeed, still putting you in the situation of "what if he doesn't ddance and still attacks" scenario.

But then, Charizard4 and Latios4 are generally a dreadful nightmare for all of us, mostly because they always come with set 3 as well, so you are in the position of "If i nuke it it might be the other set and not die, if i don't it might ddance and sweep me"


To be honest Drampa3 (and glaceon) at least was pretty rare if not playing on Sun (damn you Sina). Steelix is rare and even when it shows up it isn't often a threat due to its stabs not being impressive, and Emboar/Incineroar sets also often aren't threatening even factoring in lucky QCs, same goes for Licki as you always imply it will seppuku turn 1 (like all other relevant Explosion users, I lost count of how many times Metagross3 just blows up right away).

I myself did not have a huge dread of Drampa and Glaceon until I did the rookie mistake of buying UltraSun instead of UltraMoon.


p.s. I'm trying to make TR work with Mega Obamasnow. Looks promising, made it to 50 already then lost like a noob to a disastrous turn 2 misplay. Really wish i had HA starters right now though.

As far as I know Zard X can't OHKO Mega Blaziken without a DD (I was checking the calcs). So a Low kick, followed by Protect, followed by EQ on X or a Flare Blitz on Y (I think) does it. But yes I hate that damn Zard.

edit: looks like he has a 6.3% chance of OHKO with Dragon Rush
 
Well, the main problem that lies there is the fact that you won't know which Charizard is. All trainers that have 3 also have 4.

Which means by low kicking turn 1, you are opening yourself to this
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 200-236 (129 - 152.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Which brings what to what I said above:
Charizard4 and Latios4 are generally a dreadful nightmare for all of us, mostly because they always come with set 3 as well, so you are in the position of "If i nuke it it might be the other set and not die, if i don't it might ddance and sweep me"
Similar pattern you can do for Latios34, Latios3 will 1hko with Psychic.
 
Well, the main problem that lies there is the fact that you won't know which Charizard is. All trainers that have 3 also have 4.

Which means by low kicking turn 1, you are opening yourself to this
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 200-236 (129 - 152.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Which brings what to what I said above:

Similar pattern you can do for Latios34, Latios3 will 1hko with Psychic.
That makes sense. I think the safest bet is to treat it as the scariest Zard that would sweep my team, which would probably be X.

Man Zard having two Megas makes this a bit of a pain.
 
It's not really "Zard's" problem. As i said, the "which set is going to screw me" is common to a lot of pokes, Charizard and Latios are one (Latios3 is specs, Latios4 is mega ddance)

Few more honorable mentions that you can learn to hate purely because of the unpredictability:
Rhyperior34 - 3 is sash metal burst + horn drill, 4 is Z-rockium with protect
Snorlax34 - 3 is LO with protect and double edge, 4 is AV with fissure and body slam
Drampa34 - Drampa3 is quick claw nightmare, 4 is modest with speed EV and Z-dragonium
Magnezone34 - 3 is bright powder which also has Thunder Wave, 4 is AV, both can also be Sturdy on top of that making Z-moving risky
Alakazam34 - 4 is Specs and can be Inner Focus, 3 is Mega and can trace your ability potentially turning it against you (Trace beast boost or speed boost is fun i promise)
Garchomp34 - 3 is scarf, 4 is mega
Tyranitar34 - 3 is Chople ddance, 4 is mega
Aerodactyl34 - 3 is mega, 4 is band

list can continue quite a lot.
 
It's not really "Zard's" problem. As i said, the "which set is going to screw me" is common to a lot of pokes, Charizard and Latios are one (Latios3 is specs, Latios4 is mega ddance)

Few more honorable mentions that you can learn to hate purely because of the unpredictability:
Rhyperior34 - 3 is sash metal burst + horn drill, 4 is Z-rockium with protect
Snorlax34 - 3 is LO with protect and double edge, 4 is AV with fissure and body slam
Drampa34 - Drampa3 is quick claw nightmare, 4 is modest with speed EV and Z-dragonium
Magnezone34 - 3 is bright powder which also has Thunder Wave, 4 is AV, both can also be Sturdy on top of that making Z-moving risky
Alakazam34 - 4 is Specs and can be Inner Focus, 3 is Mega and can trace your ability potentially turning it against you (Trace beast boost or speed boost is fun i promise)
Garchomp34 - 3 is scarf, 4 is mega
Tyranitar34 - 3 is Chople ddance, 4 is mega
Aerodactyl34 - 3 is mega, 4 is band

list can continue quite a lot.
Hey I have lost to that Magnezone many a time. Good memories there. That chomp is always a bit spooky as well.
 
If you using Blaziken, if they can threaten 1hko right away they might go for it, which leaves you in a risky spot. You also will likely not be able to 1hko even after a second speed boost allows you to outspeed, still putting you in the situation of "what if he doesn't ddance and still attacks" scenario.

But then, Charizard4 and Latios4 are generally a dreadful nightmare for all of us, mostly because they always come with set 3 as well, so you are in the position of "If i nuke it it might be the other set and not die, if i don't it might ddance and sweep me"


To be honest Drampa3 (and glaceon) at least was pretty rare if not playing on Sun (damn you Sina). Steelix is rare and even when it shows up it isn't often a threat due to its stabs not being impressive, and Emboar/Incineroar sets also often aren't threatening even factoring in lucky QCs, same goes for Licki as you always imply it will seppuku turn 1 (like all other relevant Explosion users, I lost count of how many times Metagross3 just blows up right away).

I myself did not have a huge dread of Drampa and Glaceon until I did the rookie mistake of buying UltraSun instead of UltraMoon.


p.s. I'm trying to make TR work with Mega Obamasnow. Looks promising, made it to 50 already then lost like a noob to a disastrous turn 2 misplay. Really wish i had HA starters right now though.
I suppose this is where RNG experiences have differed for both of us. I see Steelix3 fairly often, certainly more than 4 (but its not much of a threat like you said) and Incineroar4 and Emboar3 have both been large thorns in my balls recently.

When I face Emboar3, it’s usually one of the Ace Trainers with a sun team, and so the heat will be on, making its Flare Blitz extremely painful. I had also been trying to use Stakataka successfully, so it’s never a welcome sight. Incineroar was in a similar boat, but having Hariyama around renders it a little more moot. Still, I fucking hate it.

Abomasnow is a blast but I won’t use it on a team until triples returns. When I steamrolled 100 battles with it, I had Azumarill to weaken/kill fire leads and just better synergy in general. This is one instance I’d prefer Musharna to Oranguru because the jump in SpA would be significant. I needed Musharna to kill a lot of things Blizzard wouldn’t when it wasn’t using HH.

Speaking of Musharna, I’ve been giving it a lot of attention lately. Relaxed 236/252 guarantees surviving Tyrantrum4 Head Smash and Armaldo4 X-Scissor, and while SpD suffers as a result it still survives Gengar4 Shadow Ball, the strongest in the tree if I’m not mistaken. Also has promising calcs against most dark STAB not called Honchkrow Black Hole Eclipse. I love Oranguru to death but it’s time to give some attention back to my old crew.

Also looking at new Ally Switch users and took an interest in max special bulk Rotom Wash as a means of eating fires, Hydro Pumps and Ice Beams. May not bear much fruit, but I liked it on paper.
 
Looking for some strategy tips...

I'm playing Super Singles, leading with Dragonite, Adamant, with 196 speed EVs (the rest in HP). I run Dragon Dance, Outrage, Fire Punch, and Iron Head. I chose 196 speed EVs because it outspeeds jolly tyranitar by 1. Tyranitar2 and Tyranitar3 are jolly, and use dragon dance and rock slide. Unless they miss or I crit, they will beat my Dragonite if our typical battle happens (we both dance, then I use outrage and they use rock slide) unless I outspeed them (I can survive one rock slide but not two). Outrage has about a 45% chance to OHKO at +1. Earthquake will always kill at +1, if I change my moveset to have it. I'm wondering if I should up to 252 and just leave 4 in HP (or def or spdef).

196 speed EVs: 125 speed --> 187 after one dance (I think it drops the decimal part, instead of rounding up)
252 speed EVs: 132 speed --> 198

There are a bunch of dragons in between 125 and 132 speed, like certain sets of latios, kingdra, etc. However I don't think any of these can OHKO me, and I usually do a dragon dance first anyway, because I don't want to be locked in to outrage before dragon dancing. I will definitely OHKO all of these after one dragon dance. So I'm looking more at the +1 part...

Between 187 and 198 speed are some other threats, mainly all four weavile sets. When I see Weavile, I usually switch. If I'm at +1 with 196 EVs, I would also switch, because below is what would happen...

Weavile-1: No ice moves. This one flings a razor claw, so I know which weavile it is if I see it.
Weavile-2: This one has nevermeltice. If it uses ice punch, it has a 31.3% chance to kill me at 56 HP EVs (slower speed dragonite). If I use faster dragonite, I will outspeed it and OHKO with iron head if I'm at +1 dance (Iron Head does enough damage to OHKO it even at +0). If it uses ice shard, it's a guaranteed 2HKO either way.
Weavile-3: Can use fake out, then ice punch for a definite kill. (has focus sash)
Weavile-4: similar to weavile3, can use fake out then ice punch. (also has focus sash).

Other threats between 187 and 198 are some ribombee sets, but these have quite weak attacks and I can survive two easily, and kill them with a +1 iron head.
Noivern-1 is between here but it has no dragon attacks.
Greninja-2, timid, is here, and it has ice beam and will 2HKO me at either EV spread. I will OHKO it with outrage unboosted. This Greninja has rain dance + damp rock, and the AI loves to use weather moves even when it should be attacking, so I may get to outrage it without being hit here.
Salamence-4 (a jolly mega set) has dragon rush is in this speed range.

My other team members get shuffled around a bit, but usually it is Protean Greninja and Mega Kangaskhan. Sometimes one or both are switched for Mega Gyarados, Gliscor, Scarf adamant Kartana,, or Porygon-Z (which uses Z-conversion on Thunderbolt).

I'm wondering, what notable things will I survive at 56 HP EVs that I won't at 4? (or def/spdef EVs). It's a bit harder to figure that out.
You want Earthquake on Dragonite always. Has much better 2-move coverage than anything else does. As for Speed vs HP EVs, it's up to you to figure out where you want to sit there. A lot of things you mentioned between 187 and 198 are valid threats, and are dependent on what teammates you have. I realized that my teammates could cover everything in that range better than Dragonite, so I saw no need for the extra EVs there. Since your teammates get shuffled around, you will probably end up going to max speed. Also the HP EVs survive Garchomp4's CH dragon claw (and by extension Garchomp3's Outrage) so that you can OHKO them before they threaten the rest of your team.
 
You want Earthquake on Dragonite always. Has much better 2-move coverage than anything else does. As for Speed vs HP EVs, it's up to you to figure out where you want to sit there. A lot of things you mentioned between 187 and 198 are valid threats, and are dependent on what teammates you have. I realized that my teammates could cover everything in that range better than Dragonite, so I saw no need for the extra EVs there. Since your teammates get shuffled around, you will probably end up going to max speed. Also the HP EVs survive Garchomp4's CH dragon claw (and by extension Garchomp3's Outrage) so that you can OHKO them before they threaten the rest of your team.
Hmm, considering that Wally has ended me with that scarfchomp a few times, I suppose I"ll go for 196 Speed/56 HP.

If I do replace something with Earthquake it'll probably be Fire Punch, but I'll miss being able to kill Scizor before it can do anything. I rarely find myself wishing I had Earthquake, since most electric types die to a +1 outrage anyway (I think Magnezone dies to a +1 fire punch), Iron Head does pretty well against Rock Types... maybe I could kill things like Steelix in one less hit with EQ than Fire Punch, but it's not much of an offensive threat, so I'd just use an extra dance instead. Heatran is probably the main consideration for EQ.

And yeah, while I do shuffle teammates, by far the two I use most frequently alongside it are

Greninja @ Expert Belt (sometimes I switch to Life Orb, but I have noticed survivng a lot of hits from full health at ~ 5 HP with Expert Belt, although I can't remember which ones off hand)
Protean, Timid, 252 Spatk/252 Speed/4 HP
Ice Beam
Surf
Grass Knot
Dark Pulse

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Scrappy, Adamant, 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 HP
Fake Out
Power Up Punch
Return
Sucker Punch

I'm sure people will tell me to put Earthquake on Kangaskhan too, but I rarely find she needs it. I'd put it on Dragonite first, probably.
 

NoCheese

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Hey boss, I meant to ask, is there any particular reason the Multis section is still a WIP? Anything I or anyone else can do to help 'complete' it, as it were?
I didn't start it as early as I did the rest of the thread, so though I've gone back and added things, I worry that I've missed streaks from the early days. Going to change it to "please let me know if you spot a missing streak!" and force myself to take another pass through the early pages and see what streaks I can find.
 
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I didn't start it as early as I did the rest of the thread, so thought I've gone back and added things, I worry that I've missed streaks from the early days. Going to change it to "please let me know if you spot a missing streak!" and force myself to take another pass through the early pages and see what streaks I can find.
hoi boss, Just passing to mention that in my 14x streak, I used both Typhlosion and Entei, alternating, so could be worth adding it :)
 
Just a quick question about Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. Are Totem pokemon allowed in the battle tree. because i would love to use Totem Mimikyu in my run.
 
Both fellows who ran the Kommonium Z teams used Totem for the extra girth. Good enough reasoning if you hate Mega Aerodactyl that much... I know there’s a couple other things that know Sky Drop, but Aero is one of the only relevant users past 40, I think.
 
Can't upload how? Have you tried going into the PC in Festival Plaza to upload it there? Or is the battle video from the previous version of the game?

Sorry, I meant to say I forgot to actually save the battle video in my frustration of losing haha. so that's why i can't show a battle video here on the forum. Should i make a picture of the guy that tells me what my record is?
 

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