An odd choice - The Lum and Chesto Berries

This thread is solely to discuss the usage of Lum Berry. It may seem odd to have a whole discussion thread on a single item, but in Ubers there are so many options where you can use the item and it can work.

Mostly, you'll find Lum Berry on leading Pokemon. This is to be expected; Darkrai is currently the #3 lead, so hitting it and breaking any Focus Sash is definitely worth it. On top of this, because Darkrai has to use Dark Void twice to sleep a Pokemon for a period of time, it has more chance to miss (36% chance instead of 20% chance). It might even help out against any Thunder Wave Kyogre.

But can Lum Berry be used elsewhere? Well, of course it can. Let's take a look at one of my favourite Lum Berry sweepers.


Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide
Garchomp can Swords Dance on many Uber Pokemon who may be expecting a Choice Scarf varient. Outrage will always 2HKO the the most defensive Groudon (with Leftovers), while Groudon fails to OHKO back (even with a Life Orb Dragon Claw). Earthquake is solid versus Dialga, Metagross, etc. Stone Edge OHKOes 252 HP / 52 Def Bold Lugia 79.5% of the time after Stealth Rock damage (63.6% of the time factoring in accuracy), while Lugia fails to OHKO back. It also helps vs Ho-oh.

Now, Lum Berry. The assumption of Swords Dance and no Life Orb generally suggests Haban or Yache Berry. This might mean the opponent will use a very common Darkrai to sleep Garchomp, thus rendering it useless. Only, Garchomp awakes to KO Darkrai. Lum Berry also heals Outrage's confusion. It also allows Garchomp to fake a Choice Scarf early-game, firing off Earthquakes/Stone Edges. Of course, this gives away Garchomp's facade, but then it Pokemon is a team game and you can always use Garchomp as a straight up attacker later on in the game.

Pokemon such as Dialga can fake Choice Scarf sets quite easily. This allows to them to both scare the opponent early game, and be a safer switch-in to Giratina or Thunder Wave Kyogre. There is quite a bit of status in Ubers; Thunder Wave, Will-O-Wisp, Toxic, and Dark Void are all seen fairly commonly. Lum Berry means you can avoid this with ease, and set up or use the extra time to KO the opponent - something which is increasingly important in the fast-paced Uber metagame. Lum Berry can help x take out y, letting a team mate sweep. It's mostly used in a long term plan, concealing information about the opponent.

Another thing, is the mega use of Thunder in Ubers. One of the most used moves, it is often paired with rain to get 100% accuracy. Its 30% chance of paralysis will often ruin sweepers such as Mewtwo. Maybe it might be worth swapping over and testing Lum Berry to see if it still works as well, also being able to fake an item like Choice Scarf? (Thus being able to nab KOes on Scizor with Flamethrower and Blissey with Selfdestruct). Sometimes assumptions can outweigh the power loss!

Finally, I'm going to talk about a barely-ever seen tactic: "ChestoRest".



Palkia @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Rest
- Spacial Rend
- Surf
- Thunder
Pretty much a standard attacker with a 1-time full restore. It's really useful late game. Your opponent might have weakened Palkia, and they might base a plan around finishing it off with an ExtremeSpeed, or a similar "weak" attack. Only, when you bring Palkia in and they play around it, you get a free Rest, destroying their plans and winning you the game.

Alternatively, they might know you aren't Choice Scarf, so it's likely they'd assume Lustrous Orb. So Darkrai can sleep you and finish you? Nope! Because Darkrai eats a possibly-rain boosted Surf. Thunder Wave Kyogre could survive a hit and make it useless for the rest of the team, right? Nah! Kyogre gets a Thunder, only to be followed by a 75% chance full restore - thus meaning you can attack again unparalyzed, ruining their plan. I know this set is odd, but I love it to pieces!

So, in short, this is basically to say Lum Berry and Chesto Berry are ridiculously underrated in Ubers! Have you had any odd experiences with these two items?
 

Fireburn

BARN ALL
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I agree. In fact, I like to use ChestoRestCM Kyogre more than STalk Kyogre now:

---
Kyogre @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 240 HP/234 Def/36 Spd
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rest
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
---

The one time full restore is extremely helpful against more offensive teams, as I can replace the slot the Sleep Talk would normally go in for better type coverage, which has killed many a Rayquaza or Giratina-O attempting to set up on me. It also helps against random hax, and bluffing a Choice Item is always a good thing. In fact, the team I have with this Kyogre on it has never been swept by Rayquaza, since it can't set up on anything. That's one of the advantages of using these items. Better type coverage>Sleep Talk+One time full restore=Stuff cannot set up on your team as easily. :) I've swept many, many teams with this set, as that full restore often ruins their plans of killing Kyogre before I begin my Surf rampage.

I really think that Lum/Chesto Berry is very underrated, and is more useful than people might think.
 
Lum berry can also be used on support oriented pokemon, such as support dialga (this is, in fact, listed as an option on the analysis). I'm not sure how effective it is over leftovers, but on things who already have a method of healing, and for things that are actually vulnerable to toxic, it could be extremely useful.
 
Lum berry can also be used on support oriented pokemon, such as support dialga (this is, in fact, listed as an option on the analysis). I'm not sure how effective it is over leftovers, but on things who already have a method of healing, and for things that are actually vulnerable to toxic, it could be extremely useful.

Lum berry/Chesto is a viable option for virtually any lead, because of the fear of Darkrai's sleep tactics. Leftovers does grant that instant 6% recovery which could mean the difference between a 2hko and narrowly avoiding it. The berry path is more meant for you're going to use it for the lead slot, and not not send it out for later use, unless for death fodder. Leftovers is more meant for walling purposes, especially on lead Groudon, who is counted on to counter SD/DD Rayquaza.
 
I was using that Kyogre(with more SA Evs) on one of my old teams and it did good. No leftovers sucks when facing something like scarf Palkia using Thunder but most of the time it will crit you if you let it attack 16 times. But Chesto really pwns certain people who give you a CM or two and then go "oh shit"
 
hm I´m astonished that noone has mentioned Lum-Darkrai yet, as it is a very good choice on it. It will be able to get up to 4 boosts against stall without being toxiced or paralyzed(and toxic has only 85% accuracy), if you can trap Palkia(common scarfer in stall) the game can be ended very quick.
 
The thing about using a Lum/Chesto berry and Chesto-Rest in paticular is that it is relatively easy to play around, such as by taking a turn to boost stats instead of attack, while you, predicting an attack, use Rest, thus wasting the health recovery you were expecting. If you are too reliant on the HP recovery, that can be used against you. Furthermore, if your opponent knows you are holding a Lum/Chesto Berry, (i.e. after the first you play) then they may just attack instead of trying to status you. That said, I think there's a lot of uses for a Lum Berry, such as on a sweeper that you don't want getting paralyzed at an inopportune time. Personally, I think that an SD Chomp is best off with a Haban Berry, a CM Kyogre with a Lum Berry is viable, as it is probably going to be hit with Thunder a lot, and thus getting (fully) paralyzed a lot. Lum Berry mitigates this, of course. However, a Berry is not always useful, while leftovers gives 6.25% every turn, no matter what, so that may be a turnoff for some people.
 
I'm just saying this because it wasn't entirely clear to me: the only reason you'd use Chesto over Lum is if you have Rest and don't want some other status messing up your RestChesto strategy?
 
On a starter, Chesto Berry has only the advantage of not allowing your opponent to avoid paralysis when running something like Dialga/ Groudon if they trick first turn
 
I use Chesto Berry if I know the opponent is loaded with status enflicters.
I don't want the Lum Berry to go to waste, except for the odd paralysis on Palkia that I often run into.
Darkrai, however, ruins it too if it trys to sleep me.
 
On sweepers which don't want life orb recoil, or don't need the extra power of something like expert belt, lum berry seems to be a much more effective option, since the leftovers recover wouldn't benefit very many sweepers, since it was my impression that most sweepers were either bulky and had some sort of recovery or are frail and quick, in which case the recovery wouldn't help at all.
 
Although I often see Chesto Rest used in OU, and of course at the WiFi Battle Tower, it's not something I see in ubers. I like the idea, and I especially think it's feasible with Kyogre's bulkiness.

Nice idea.

Well, Kyogre's bulk should be bolstered by calm minds before having to rest, otherwise you just wasted your only recovery. This method is useful for the benefits of rest, but not having to rely on chance to attack during the rest period. Kyogre's bulk, while impressive, doesn't last as long it should, especially with rainbow colored phoenixs running around brave birding.
 
darkrai @ lum berry
you know the spread
-dark void
-nasty plot
-substitute
-dark pulse

If you have any team without a member faster than this when it is brought out, it is usually game over (if played correctly of course)
 
darkrai @ lum berry
you know the spread
-dark void
-nasty plot
-substitute
-dark pulse

If you have any team without a member faster than this when it is brought out, it is usually game over (if played correctly of course)
Dude, how is that game over, it only prevents other Darkrai`s from sleeping you.
 
darkrai @ lum berry
you know the spread
-dark void
-nasty plot
-substitute
-dark pulse

If you have any team without a member faster than this when it is brought out, it is usually game over (if played correctly of course)
...the fact that you have both Sub and a Lum Berry seems flawed, and with Dark Void, you should sleep after Lum activates, so... no sub. If your going to NP, why don't you use a move like Focus Blast or whatnot, so Dialga with a Lum Berry and Brick break or other NP Darkrais won't laugh at you?
 
has anyone actually used sub mono attack darkrai. It is so much better than dark pulse+focus blast its not even funny. Focus blast is too unreliable and still fails to OHKO many pokemon after the boost.

Plus, with sub stall teams become a non issue. Lum can work to stop opposing blissey from statusing you, then you sub rendering there attack useless and proceed to wreck shit with a +6 darkrai.

Against offense you could sub immediately after bringing him out, assuming the opponent is switching. Now you can put someone to sleep getting a free turn, or play mind games if it is a restalker.
 
has anyone actually used sub mono attack darkrai. It is so much better than dark pulse+focus blast its not even funny. Focus blast is too unreliable and still fails to OHKO many pokemon after the boost.

Plus, with sub stall teams become a non issue. Lum can work to stop opposing blissey from statusing you, then you sub rendering there attack useless and proceed to wreck shit with a +6 darkrai.

Against offense you could sub immediately after bringing him out, assuming the opponent is switching. Now you can put someone to sleep getting a free turn, or play mind games if it is a restalker.
Well, you can`t just say it`s better than Dark Pulse + Focus Blast Darkrai, and as a Stall player I can assure you the DP + FB Rai is harder to take down.
 
Well, you can`t just say it`s better than Dark Pulse + Focus Blast Darkrai, and as a Stall player I can assure you the DP + FB Rai is harder to take down.
With darkrai, it's either do or die time. He either sweeps a lot of things with dark pulse and focus blast, or dies after he sleeps something. His fragility doesn't help either. Sometimes, even the slept pokemon can easily dispose of darkrai easily like sleep talking scarf heracross or rest talk Kyogre, thus negating the main purpose of dark void, which is to aid in set up.
 
Now of course, the thing to do with a Darkrai is to not sleep something first turn. Rather, set up a Sub, and then make your choice accordingly. If they switch to say, a Dialga, it's obviously of the Bulk-up variety, which happens to be mind game fodder. If you do sleep it, you can just Sub until Sleep Talk doesn't choose Outrage, and take the time to Nasty Plot. However, if they switch to a Scizor, either Dark Pulse, or Void it, if you think it's their only Darkrai Check. Many a noob (and even some veteran players) can be easily defeated with proper use of a Darkrai.
 
Because chesto is now more common than lum, Ive started testing a darkrai lead that ignores paralysing leads.

Darkrai @ Choice Scarf
Adamant
252 Atk / 6 HP / 252 speed
trick
swords dance
sucker punch
dark void

the idea is to trick a choice scarf onto a lead that will status you and set up in it's face. Since darkrai will most likely be taking a thunderwave, sucker punch negates the speed drop. Since they will be trapped in a now useless move, swords dance on the switch. Thus works better if they have a lum berry becUse they might try to status you again, so another sword can be danced. Dark void stops anything setting up on Sucker punch.
Any thoughts?
 
Because chesto is now more common than lum, Ive started testing a darkrai lead that ignores paralysing leads.

Darkrai @ Choice Scarf
Adamant
252 Atk / 6 HP / 252 speed
trick
swords dance
sucker punch
dark void

the idea is to trick a choice scarf onto a lead that will status you and set up in it's face. Since darkrai will most likely be taking a thunderwave, sucker punch negates the speed drop. Since they will be trapped in a now useless move, swords dance on the switch. Thus works better if they have a lum berry becUse they might try to status you again, so another sword can be danced. Dark void stops anything setting up on Sucker punch.
Any thoughts?
Sucker Punch is just asking to get set up on.
 

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
lol In my warstory I almost lost to a Lum Berry Palkia.
I played the whole game thinking that it had Lustrious Orb or Choice Scarf. So am just pointing out that Chesto Rest is a very viable stratigy.
I think that the items are very viable but the majority of the time, the work best as items held by leads.
 
lol In my warstory I almost lost to a Lum Berry Palkia.
I played the whole game thinking that it had Lustrious Orb or Choice Scarf. So am just pointing out that Chesto Rest is a very viable stratigy.
I think that the items are very viable but the majority of the time, the work best as items held by leads.
It's more of a gimmick, as more players are swapping away from status leads.
 

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
True but Palkia can fake items better than most sweepers which makes Lum a useable option, still classed as a gimick though I guess
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top