Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread

[VicBossMG]

Maushold over Cinccino, good.

 

[pika pal]

Archaludon seems quite a bit too high. It's an absolutely terrifying monster on rain, that's to be sure. But outside of rain, Archaludon honestly reminds me of Goodra-Hisui - it sits there, dies slowly, and accomplishes nothing. I would think a weather-dependent breaker would be more like A- or B+, depending on how good that weather is in general.

Samurott-Hisui at A also feels a little bit weird. Fatter teams will just use Gliscor to set spikes, while more offensive teams seem to either use Deo-S or not bother with spikes altogether with how popular boots are right now. The defensive utility of Samurott-Hisui to soft check Gholdengo is still amazing, and the movepool including SD and Priority also keeps it relevant, but it's still a bit hard to fit on a team right now, and therefore I think it could stand to drop a little bit.

Otherwise, things look pretty good. I'd be tempted to put Gliscor in S as well, just because it seems to define the meta so much right now, but it's probably not quite splashable enough to get there. Interested to see how these rankings might influence talks of action in the tier down the line.

In the case of Archaludon, it's significantly better than Hoodra thanks to Stamina giving it some gain out of taking hits even if it can't initially do anything, and it has more potent offense by a mile on top of the frequent Body Press. I also think it's the case that it benefits from Weather but isn't beholden to it the way, say, Swift Swimmers are, and Rain needs it a lot more than vice versa since it provides a potent Grass Resistance AND a way to kill common Water resists like other Waters and Dragons. Even then I guess the question is: would you run Rain in OU without Archaludon and still be able to play efficiently? Since the answer leans negatory, I think it fair to rank alongside Pelipper (who more or less defines the style's viability)

For Samurott, I think Deo-S presents competition, but also a major point to its viability: On opposition, Samurott-H is often cited as a strong counter lead, completely blanking Psycho from Deoxys and limiting it to one Spike with Ceaseless Edge + Priority, coming out ahead in Bodies and Equal in Hazards at Minimum. This is all without having to significantly change how it plays its Lead set on teams that don't lead with Deoxys-S.

Alternatively, offensive Deoxys-Speed sets appreciate a teammate being able to reliably put down Hazards in its place since it's not doing so, and the Dark Typing to soft-check opposing Dark/Ghosts like Gholdengo, Kingambit, and deter Shadow Ball from the likes of Dragapult all play nice with it. Even the Hazard sets could run lead Deoxys-S and swap its Spikes slot for something else to Counter-Leads like Skill Swap on Hat Switch-ins, or something like Knock Off/Focus Blast to punish attempted switch-ins wanting to use Psycho Boost for turns like Defensive Gholdengo or Pivot Meowscarada. There's a case to make that Deo-S is better at Hazard setting, but also that its various roles overall mean it benefits Hamurott's place in the tier more than hurts/infringes on it.

 

[Ryomathekillers]

why is maushold preferred over cincinno?

are the alternative webs mons, garvantula, araquanid and alternative weather mons, politoad and ninetales simply unviable now as opposed to a brief mention in the lower ranks? I find they all have quite legitimate niches

 

[Cuddly]

why is maushold preferred over cincinno?

Maushold is way stronger.
252 Atk Technician Maushold Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 250-310 (61.8 - 76.7%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Technician Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 200-240 (49.5 - 59.4%) -- approx. 64.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Jolly Maushold is even stronger than Adamant Cinccino by a large margin. With Jolly it also is faster too. Cinccino‘s only niche is having better coverage and can have better speed with Jolly.

 

[TheTraininator]

Maushold is way stronger.
252 Atk Technician Maushold Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 250-310 (61.8 - 76.7%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Technician Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 200-240 (49.5 - 59.4%) -- approx. 64.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Jolly Maushold is even stronger than Adamant Cinccino by a large margin. With Jolly it also is faster too. Cinccino‘s only niche is having better coverage and can have better speed with Jolly.

Cincinno also has Knock Off which isn’t just stronger than Technician Bite, (at least on hit one), but also gives Cincinno more utility/role compression. I actually think the two are pretty comparable as a result.

 

[Cuddly]

Cincinno also has Knock Off which isn’t just stronger than Technician Bite, (at least on hit one), but also gives Cincinno more utility/role compression. I actually think the two are pretty comparable as a result.

Yeah but Population Bomb doing so much more is more valuable especially since the aim of Maushold is KOing things. Knock Off is a fine option for Rocky Helmet and doing more to Ghosts, but otherwise the cost is too much for missing out on Population Bomb.

 

[Antihaxxer]

Cincinno can run items instead of Wide Lens for Maushold ?

 

[Cuddly]

Cincinno can run items instead of Wide Lens for Maushold ?

It runs Loaded Dice instead. Both get Technician so if you aren’t running Loaded Dice on Cincinno, you are running Skill Link as an ability which means you lack significant power Technician gives your multi-hit moves.

 

[kingmickey27]

Rillaboom -> Higher

Think A- is underselling it a bit. Having priority against the dangerous fast stuff like rain (which is rated pretty highly here), Boulder, Deo-S, Darkrai, Valiant, whatnot is a handy safety net to have. Knock Off and U-turn are useful as always, but a real big point in Rilla's favor imo is Grassy Terrain. I like pairing it with Archaludon. The healing from Lefties + terrain (and Protect) lets it switch into stuff more liberally (including Earthquakes from Lando-T and stuff), accumulate the Stamina boosts while basically losing no health lol.

Furthermore, because of the addition of High Horsepower to the movepools of Great Tusk (if you don't want to use Headlong) and Gliscor, Rillaboom won't lose synergy with those mons if you want them on the same team as well.

Grassy Terrain alone is potent and not to be underestimated as chip is everything. But in addition to that, it's a good safety net and support mon with good utility and decent defensive typing, and is still capable of plowing through teams once the resists have been taken care of, so it's not like it's a liability to slot this thing in.

 

[2manyflies]

thought kyurem was ranked a lil overrated. Proceeded to hop on the ladder and the boots 4 attack set 6-0'd my bitch 2 games in a row

 

[skyhigh981]

Anyone else tried Alluring Voice on Milotic? After an insane number of years, Milotic finally got an additional coverage move in fairy which is quite good in the metagame.

As usual, Scald is mandatory along with Recover. Ice Beam still works if you’re concerned with Dragonite, Gliscor and their likes and Haze / Flip Turn are good moves too.

 

[Ctann]

thought kyurem was ranked a lil overrated. Proceeded to hop on the ladder and the boots 4 attack set 6-0'd my bitch 2 games in a row

Not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with the implications of your anecdote,

but for the record..

pokemon have been in a viability ranking much lower than S and have been too good, and banned from OU before.

 

[Rogue786]

It's been quite some time since I've last been playing OU, especially with all the dlc; trying to get back into it. It's a curiosity to see Deoxys Speed at A, along with all the other legendaries populating the tier. How are mons like it, Latias, and Darkrai holding up in this metagame?

 

[RyukTheDarkrai]

A+ -> A:

I believe everybody's favorite giraffe is ranked just a touch too high, especially when in comparison to the other Pokemon in A+. Being an Electric Type in a meta infested with excellent Ground Types is no fun, especially with Clodsire and Ting-Lu around. We even have Pokemon Terastalizing into Grounds to beef up the power of their own Earthquake while also providing a nice immunity to Thunderclap, such as Gouging Fire or Iron Boulder. This combined with its terrible Speed tier often leaves it reliant on burning Tera and it unfortunately isn't as strong with it when compared to other Tera Abusers such as Roaring Moon or Gouging Fire. Finally, Thunderclap lacks that special little oomph to really pose as a massive threat as a priority move, especially with all the other excellent Dragons roaming around.

 

[TCTphantom]

S -> S- or to S and to A+

Personally, I do not think there is much of a gap between Gambit and the rest of the S tiers save for Dragapult. It’s damn good, but is it *that* much better than Gliscor or Great Tusk when they are insane glue mons, Gholdengo’s utility vs and on bulky teams, and how absurd Kyurem is? I just feel that it is not insanely better than the rest of S-… save pult. Who’s great, don’t get me wrong. But I wouldn’t put Pult up there with the titans of the tier personally. A good bit of this is just my personal opinion, I know some people think Gambit is absurdly broken. I just don’t think it’s head and shoulders the best Mon in the tier.

 

[sand1234]

S -> S- or to S and to A+

Personally, I do not think there is much of a gap between Gambit and the rest of the S tiers save for Dragapult. It’s damn good, but is it *that* much better than Gliscor or Great Tusk when they are insane glue mons, Gholdengo’s utility vs and on bulky teams, and how absurd Kyurem is? I just feel that it is not insanely better than the rest of S-… save pult. Who’s great, don’t get me wrong. But I wouldn’t put Pult up there with the titans of the tier personally. A good bit of this is just my personal opinion, I know some people think Gambit is absurdly broken. I just don’t think it’s head and shoulders the best Mon in the tier.

I think Gambit is the best mon in the tier and there's zero competition for it's role tbh. Yeah there other dark types but they form a good dark spam core with Gambit instead of competing with it. As for Gliscor and Tusk they kinda compete with each other (and also Ting Lu) cuz they're both physically bulky grounds and you really can't use both together except in rare circumstances which reduces their splashability. As for Ghold, I think it should drop to A+ personally as the meta isn't the most kind to it with the amount of dark types running around. Kyurem is definitely very hard to answer but it's not the easiest to fit on teams either so I think it's fine where it is

 

[Conflux123]

art drawn + thread run by ausma | VR concept credit goes to PK Gaming
​

Welcome to the Scarlet and Violet Overused viability rankings, Indigo Disk edition!

In this thread, we, as a community, will be ranking every single justifiably usable Pokemon into "tiers" ranking their viability in the metagame. You're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are viable in OU and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes, but the ultimate decision will be handled by OU Viability Rankings council vote during each slate of rankings!

The general idea of the topic is to rank each OU Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a tier list for the entire metagame, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense, defense, and supportive presences in the metagame within this thread. For example, Cinderace can be ranked in the A- tier as a supportive presence, Walking Wake can be ranked in the A- as an offensive presence, and Dondozo can be ranked in the A- tier as a defensive presence.

Finally, there will be a council of experienced players who will discuss and vote on the ranking of Pokemon. Depending on how the metagame is developing, we could update the thread every couple of weeks or every month+. Please note that your posts still very much matter and will be factored in to what we discuss and the discussions themselves. This thread is nothing without the posters and every informed opinion that is shared is considered a valuable contribution in my eyes, so do not hesitate to post if you know the metagame well and understand the forum rules. The council will consist of the following users:

• airfare
• ausma
• ayevon
• Baloor
• Finchinator
• Highv0ltag3
• Lily
• Mimikyu Stardust
• njnp
• Ruft
• TPP

New

Pecharunt


S Rank

S Rank

Kingambit

S- Rank

Dragapult

Gholdengo

Gliscor

Great Tusk

Kyurem

A Rank

A+ Rank

Gouging Fire

Meowscarada

Raging Bolt

Roaring Moon

Slowking-Galar

Ting-Lu

A Rank

Archaludon

Deoxys-Speed

Enamorus

Hatterene

Iron Boulder

Pelipper

Samurott-Hisui

Skarmory

Volcarona

Walking Wake

Weavile

Zamazenta-Hero

A- Rank

Barraskewda

Cinderace

Clefable

Darkrai

Dondozo

Glimmora

Iron Valiant

Landorus-Therian

Ogerpon-Wellspring

Rillaboom

Serperior

Skeledirge

Torkoal

B Rank

B+ Rank

Clodsire

Corviknight

Dragonite

Greninja

Iron Treads

Latias

Primarina

Tornadus-Therian

Toxapex

B Rank

Alomomola

Amoonguss

Blaziken

Excadrill

Garganacl

Hawlucha

Heatran

Hydrapple

Iron Moth

Keldeo

Latios

Manaphy

Ninetales-Alola

Rotom-Wash

Scizor

Ursaluna

Venusaur

Zapdos

B- Rank

Garchomp

Hoopa-Unbound

Iron Crown

Kingdra

Ogerpon-Cornerstone

Tyranitar

Volcanion

C Rank

C+ Rank

Blissey

Deoxys-Defense

Enamorus-Therian

Indeedee

Milotic

Moltres

Necrozma

Ogerpon

Weezing-Galar

Smeargle

Iron Jugulis

Moltres-Galar

C Rank

Azumarill

Basculegion

Breloom

Ceruledge

Cresselia

Iron Hands

Lilligant-Hisui

Mamoswine

Mandibuzz

Maushold

Muk-Alola

Polteageist

Reuniclus

Ribombee

Sandy Shocks

Sinistcha

Thundurus-Therian

Tinkaton

Grimmsnarl

D Rank

D Rank

Arcanine-Hisui

Cinccino

Empoleon

Goodra-Hisui

Kommo-o

Quaquaval

Scream Tail

Tentacruel

Suicune

Zarude

Dang it Blissey in C+?! It's very VERY good on stall as a special wall. No joke. I've switched into specs wake draco meteors and laughed at it while they switched out after doing a pathetic 33%-50% of my hp. Seriously. Blissey should be a bit higher imo just because of how good of a special wall it is on stall. It tanks the special water hits clodsire can't.

 

[RS25802580]

Thoughts on why Serperior is A-? Personally been having a lot of success with it at the ~1800 level. Compressing Glare/Knock support while doubling as a potent late game wincon is very powerful.

 

[TheTraininator]

Dang it Blissey in C+?! It's very VERY good on stall as a special wall. No joke. I've switched into specs wake draco meteors and laughed at it while they switched out after doing a pathetic 33%-50% of my hp. Seriously. Blissey should be a bit higher imo just because of how good of a special wall it is on stall. It tanks the special water hits clodsire can't.

You’re not wrong about how good it is on stall, but Pokémon restricted to a single niche playstyle tend to inherently end up in the C-ranks. Blissey this gen doesn’t see much use outside of stall, but it’s very good on stall, thus the upper end of C.

 

[flyingtaco]

from C to B/B+

Lilligant-hisui is an incredible speed control option on sun teams, fixing sun's bad HO matchup. The set I have been liking is

Lilligant-Hisui (F) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Solar Blade
- Close Combat
- Triple Axel
- Sleep Powder

With this set, you can check/revenge kill many scary offensive threats to sun, including Kingambit, Iron Boulder, Roaring Moon, Iron Valiant (if you chip it slightly beforehand), and with tera ghost, Dragonite as well. It's speed tier of 618 in the sun is very important, since the next fastest speed control options for sun, roaring moon and venusaur, are outsped by booster energy iron boulder, which otherwise 6-0's sun without lilligant at +2. Lilligant also has much more immediate power than its fellow chlorophyll sweeper Venusaur since it can run adamant instead of jolly and also has triple axel to hit dragon types, notably having (almost) a guarenteed OHKO on dragapult.

Here are some calcs demonstrating the power:
252+ Atk Lilligant-Hisui Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 318-378 (100.3 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Lilligant-Hisui Solar Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fighting Iron Boulder: 232-274 (72.2 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (after they sub you are very likely to kill them)
252+ Atk Lilligant-Hisui Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 440-520 (136.2 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Lilligant-Hisui Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 330-390 (94 - 111.1%) -- approx. 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Lilligant-Hisui Solar Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 211-249 (72.7 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Lilligant-hisui also controversially has sleep powder, which can give you a free turn 55% of the time in a bad matchup. Sleep powder is also very useful for scouting tera, a trait very useful for the Kingambit or raging bolt endgame. Here are a few replays of H-lilligant in action (note that these replays are with LO, which is a less consistent but more powerful option)

H-lilligant goes on a rampage after walking wake gets trapped by tera grass heatran:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2028763766?p2

H-lilligant's incredible offense matchup shown here:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2028402405?p2

H-lilligant breaks through balance even without LO:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2034744511?p2

H-lilligant saves me from D-nite:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2028769596

Even when you get unlucky, (sleep powder missing), you can still scout for tera as shown here:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2035053840?p2

 

[sims796]

Dang it Blissey in C+?! It's very VERY good on stall as a special wall. No joke. I've switched into specs wake draco meteors and laughed at it while they switched out after doing a pathetic 33%-50% of my hp. Seriously. Blissey should be a bit higher imo just because of how good of a special wall it is on stall. It tanks the special water hits clodsire can't.

Don't forget Heal Bell.

 

[658Greninja]

I wasn’t sure when to post these, but I think I’m ready to share my thoughts.

A > A+: This was the first placement I had to disagree with, because Volcarona is such a key player in this metagame. It is the single best Kyurem check in the tier while blanket checking Enamorus, Archaludon, and Gholdengo.

It is also the deadliest setup sweeper in the tier because you don’t know if its offensive, or bulky, you don’t know if it is Tera Ground or Water, so you swap into Dragapult to check it, and then it blasts it with Tera Dragon Blast, which also nukes Roaring Moon on the switch. You could try to Toxic it with Glowking and then it reveals itself to be Substitute.

As a result of that excellent defensive profile and offensive malice, Volcarona is very easy to splash onto a team, especially for the many Balance teams that struggle with Kyurem.

A > A+: Weavile is just as good if not better than Meowscarada. I would consider it a side-grade. While Meowscarada is a fantastic Poke, it could struggle in certain areas that Weavile may excel in, especially vs offense. Meowscarada needs to slowly chip Skarm with Knock + U-Turn. Weavile just nukes it with a +2 Tera Ice T-Axel.

On top of this, Weavile has access to Ice Shard to snipe Tera Flying Moon and weakened offensive targets that Meow could not do. It does trade that for the ability to pivot, which is what makes Meow a great poke, but Weavile is more offensively threatening to both defensive and offensive playstyles.

A- > A: In recent days, players has been experimenting with Hypnosis Darkrai, which has resulted in 20 pages worth of ban sleep/ban Darkrai discussion and has seen ladder success. Simply for sparking such a debate, Darkrai deserves a promotion.

A- > A: Iron Valiant was shafted due to new toy syndrome and Iron Boulder, but this thing is absolutely amazing and might rise back to S- or A+ in the future. Firstly, I’m not nomming for a rise because of Hypnosis sets, its because of its other sets. iVal is much better into Balance and Fat than Boulder, while having a much better defensive typing without Tera. In the case you do use Tera, +2 Tera Dark Knock Offs shred through almost everything, even Bulkarona dies to it at full.

iVal offers more utility with Encore, Dbond, and T-Wave. The former of these is still one of the best moves in the meta, punishing setup attempts and reckless Recovery moves or Protect. Unlike Boulder who will always be Swords Dance, you won’t know what set Valiant is running unless you’ve seen the team or are a Valiant whisperer. You could go into Glowking and then it starts clicking SD, now you’re fucked. You go into Gliscor and then you take 50 from Moonblast, then you go into Glowking and it clicks Knock. I could go on, but I think I’ve made my point.

A- > A: If you’re gonna rank Wake in A tier, might as well put the turtle up there since they’re both synonymous with Sun. The archetype has also been experimenting more, utilizing Sleep Powder from H-Lilligant and Venusaur, while going for more offensive builds to take advantage of the breaking power of the three paradox doggos.

B > B+: As awyp brought up, Garganacl is too low on the VR. You don’t even need to run Stealth Rocks on this since the tier is not short of hazard setters. Curse + EQ lets you beat Gliscor, Clef, and Glowking who are otherwise trouble for it. Encore is less common than in Home and DLC1. Garg is a wincon that functions well in all states of the game due to Salt Cure forcing chip and its ability to soft-check a good chunk of the metagame. Its also good into both Rain and Sun since most weather teams are sodium chloride-intolerant. It is a Tera hog, but if the Tera hog lets you both impossible to kill or outright win the game in the long-term, it could be worth it.

B > B+: While it isn’t a great Fire check due to Gfire and Volc often carrying Ground coverage, with Flame Body, Heatran becomes a good check to Kingambit, Weavile, and Meowscarada while doing its job in checking Gholdengo. Raging Bolt, Serperior, and Scarf Enamorus who have arrived from DLC2, appreciate what Tran‘s ability to break down special walls like Clodsire, Glowking, and Ting-Lu. It also can help teams answer to those threats.

Even when Heatran is low on HP, it still provides value due to Flame Body coming in clutch. With Tera Flying, the list of mons it can check expands to SD Valiant, Zamazenta, Samurott, etc. Balloon Tran with Flash Fire can also help teams play around Kyurem, Gouging Fire, and Gliscor if need be. Heatran does have issues with longevity in a tier where hazard stacking remains king and being Tera reliant in certain matchups, but it can operate as a solid defensive glue and wallbreaker in a metagame that appreciates both.

B > B+: Keldeo has alot going for it in this metagame. Its defensive capabilities are underrated. Sporting decent bulk for an offensive threat and the amazing Water/Fighting typing, Keldeo can switch into the likes of Darkrai, Weavile, and Kingambit once or twice to fire off its high powered STABs. Modest + Tera Fighting is a dangerous beast. You have a high roll to 2HKO Clodsire and AV Primarina with Secret Sword which is insane. Toxapex and other bulky waters are less common than in Gen 8 or 7. Even then you could tech Focus miss to nuke them.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Keldeo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 151-178 (49.6 - 58.5%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 453-534 (89.8 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Keldeo can afford to run Modest because Vacuum Wave snipes Kyurem while outspeeding Volcarona is only gonna be relevant when it hasn’t clicked Quiver Dance. Speaking of Vacuum Wave, this is such a huge buff for Keldeo since it used to struggle to keep up with the increasing speed tiers and there was no better time to give this to Keldeo than now.

Almost any fast offensive threat below 30-50% of HP not named Dragapult is getting sniped by Modest Vacuum Wave, especially once you put Tera in the equation.

brony calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 492-580 (123 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ground Kyurem: 118-139 (30.1 - 35.5%) -- 30.8% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ground Kyurem: 158-186 (40.4 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gouging Fire: 114-135 (32.4 - 38.4%) -- 98% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Meowscarada: 288-338 (98.2 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Deoxys-Speed: 79-93 (32.7 - 38.5%) -- 98.5% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Boulder: 136-160 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Walking Wake: 168-198 (49.1 - 57.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Barraskewda: 248-294 (93.9 - 111.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta: 126-150 (38.7 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 192-228 (56.3 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera: 100-118 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Iron Valiant: 108-128 (37.2 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 150-178 (51.5 - 61.1%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Greninja: 284-336 (99.6 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Water Greninja: 142-168 (49.8 - 58.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

Calm Mind sets with Surf/Taunt/Secret Sword or Vacuum Wave could also work, but I found more consistent success with Specs. With the tier consisting of bulky boots spam, HO, and weather teams, Keldeo’s typing, raw power, and priority can lend itself to have good matchups into all three archetypes. I’m so glad it is good again.

B > B+: On the topic of underrated Water types, Washtom is still an excellent pivot that loves to pair itself with other pivots like Meowscarada, Slowking-G, and Dragapult to form a nasty voltturn core. Ting-Lu and Clodsire are very easy to exploit and cripple with Wisp + Pain Split. Washtom has been seeing use in those bulkier team structures that have popped up at the end of last month. With SpD investment it can soft-check NP Gholdengo and Darkrai to land a crippling T-Wave, which are matchups that are problematic for Balance. Voltturn cores have seen higher usage lately for a few reasons. They enable powerful offensive threats like Specs Kyurem, Meowscarada and Slowking-G seeing higher usage, and spike stacking teams generally complimenting Washtom’s ability to force momentum and chip. It is also due to its immunity to Spikes that it sees usage on Balance/BO.

B- > B: Ttar has some merit in this metagame. SpD Ttar is one of the few full-on blanket checks to Kyurem, while also doing well into non-Focus Miss Darkrai and Raging Bolt. It also offers fantastic role compression with Knock, Stealth Rocks, and T-Wave. Mixed sets are good at cracking open many Skarm/Ting-Lu defensive cores to enable its partner Excadrill. Resetting the weather is also noteworthy as Sun and Rain are incredibly popular rn. Due to its vulnerability to hazards, and competition with Garganacl and Kingambit, I don’t think it is an OU tier mon like it was in Gens 2-8, but I think this placement would be more fitting, specially since Excadrill is up there.

C > C+: I think Mamo should be explored more as an alternative to Weavile. 130 Attack with Ground/Ice STAB and Ice Shard is still good to have in this metagame, especially as the tier gravitates to more bulkier teams. Due to being able to run Choice Band and having a higher attack stat than Weavile, Mamo can revenge kill with Ice Shard more consistently than Weavile.

C > B-: If you look at all the mons from S tier to A-, you’ll notice Tinkaton has a good matchup into nearly half of them. Tinkaton offers a unique niche of Mold Breaker T-Wave/Stealth Rocks along with Encore on a mon as bulky and decently fast as Tinakton. With SpD investment and some speed EVs, Tinkaton could soft-check the likes of Raging Bolt, Kyurem, Nasty Plot Gholdengo, Weavile, Darkrai, Meowscarada, CM Valiant, and Hatterene. Encore, T-Wave, and its defensive typing are a huge reason why. It also appreciates Ghold running more defensive variants in response to Kyurem and Iron Boulder. Tusk and other bulky ground types don’t like losing their Boots or Lefties to Knock. The only really bad matchup for Tinkaton is Gliscor, but it could still punish Protect or Toxic with Encore and switch into Kyurem.

A- > B+: I find Skeledirge to be weirdly inconsistent at times. It’s a great check to Zamazenta, Serperior, DD Kyurem, and Cinderace while being annoying to switch into. However it can have some trouble checking Gouging Fire, Roaring Moon, and Valiant because its base typing is holding it back. Volcarona blasts past it with Tera Ground Blast. So often times you will find Dirge having to expend Tera. Because of Specs and Boots Kyurem who absolutely demolishes Balance, teams will gravitate towards Volcarona as the Fire type of choice.

B+ > B: Dnite is on the same inconsistent boat as Skeledirge. It has promising defensive utility and role compression, but doesn’t respond well to current meta trends. It faces stiff competition with the new DD sweepers in town, Moon, Gfire, and Kyurem. The latter of these can easily kill Dragonite if it doesn’t Tera, even with Multiscale.

Gliscor returning means it can’t simply run DD/E-Speed/Fire Punch/Roost anymore. It has to run Ice Spinner or it will lose the 1v1 to Gliscor. Meanwhile Skarm forces it to run Fire Punch. So it misses out on Roost to keep itself alive vs Rain, Sun, and Wogre. In response to Skarm, offensive threats have been teching Tera Ghost to bypass it, which indirectly damages Dnite’s ability to click Tera Normal E-Speed. Band is an option for Dnite, but it is more support reliant while being more prediction reliant than other wallbreakers like Specs Kyurem.

Also I would nom for Regular Slowking to be added to the VR, but I don’t have replays unfortunately.

 

[Conflux123]

It's been quite some time since I've last been playing OU, especially with all the dlc; trying to get back into it. It's a curiosity to see Deoxys Speed at A, along with all the other legendaries populating the tier. How are mons like it, Latias, and Darkrai holding up in this metagame?

Darkrai is not that good outside of being basically swagplay 2.0 as a hypnosis lead, which is the subject of discussion currently of how to handdle it. Deoxys Speed is a very good suicide lead on teams such as ho as it with sash can set up hazards easily with a max speed set, sash, and timid with taunt, stealth rock, spikes and psycho boost. Latias is generally used as a double dance sweeper on screens HO with calm mind, tera poison, agility, stored power and aura sphere. Check out this RMT for a sample team that Pinkacross built and climbed to #1 with. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/latias-hyper-offense-peaked-1-2068-ft-gouging-fire.3732919/
It features latias and doexys s so it is a good example of some of their niches in this meta.

Don't forget Heal Bell.

Yeah it does have that utility, but currently I don't run that on my set. I run soft boiled, protect, stealth rock, and seismic toss.

 

[malomyotismon]

Darkrai is not that good outside of being basically swagplay 2.0 as a hypnosis lead, which is the subject of discussion currently of how to handdle it. Deoxys Speed is a very good suicide lead on teams such as ho as it with sash can set up hazards easily with a max speed set, sash, and timid with taunt, stealth rock, spikes and psycho boost. Latias is generally used as a double dance sweeper on screens HO with calm mind, tera poison, agility, stored power and aura sphere. Check out this RMT for a sample team that Pinkacross built and climbed to #1 with. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/latias-hyper-offense-peaked-1-2068-ft-gouging-fire.3732919/
It features latias and doexys s so it is a good example of some of their niches in this meta.

Yeah it does have that utility, but currently I don't run that on my set. I run soft boiled, protect, stealth rock, and seismic toss.

Hypnosis darkrai isn't even it's most commonly run set. While it may be the subject of debate that's more because of the luck related nature of it head you win tails you loose. 3 attacks nasty plot prove great coverage and power as a fast special cleaner and is run more often over it's hypnosis related gimmick

 

[Conflux123]

Hypnosis darkrai isn't even it's most commonly run set. While it may be the subject of debate that's more because of the luck related nature of it head you win tails you loose. 3 attacks nasty plot prove great coverage and power as a fast special cleaner and is run more often over it's hypnosis related gimmick

I was saying that the other sets generally are outclassed by other mons in that position imo and also I only mentioned the hypnosis sets because that is the subject of discussion right now.