I don't think low ladder is a good example. If it beats legitimately good opponents due to sheer luck, then you have a case.http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/extremetiershift-368922164
Chatot is BROKEN (I Think even without chatter)
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I don't think low ladder is a good example. If it beats legitimately good opponents due to sheer luck, then you have a case.http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/extremetiershift-368922164
Chatot is BROKEN (I Think even without chatter)
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http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/extremetiershift-368922164
Chatot is BROKEN (I Think even without chatter)
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^^I don't think low ladder is a good example. If it beats legitimately good opponents due to sheer luck, then you have a case.
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 379-447 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lugia: 484-570 (116.3 - 137%) -- guaranteed OHKO <- no multiscale, clearly a 2HKO with it though
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 580-684 (115.3 - 135.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Water: 217-256 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cryogonal: 330-388 (77.8 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Regice: 255-301 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Quagsire: 238-282 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 353-416 (87.3 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Well, first off all of your calcs are off. For instance,I think Clamperl should be looked at. Maybe I'm doing something horribly wrong on my stall team, but so far I just click X every time I see one. I can't find anything that it doesn't just completely trash. My best case scenario is sack something to status it and then wait until my second pokemon gets worn down alongside it to stall it out with a third.
At +2 it just 2HKOs every pokemon in the whole game with Surf. It OHKOs everything up to and including neutral typing max/max 120/120 bulk and 2HKOs something with theoretical max/max 255/255 bulk with SR + Spikes up. Even if I had something that could take a hit and do something meaningful back, there's no cost for it to just switch out since it can setup as many times as it wants.
It starts with 838 SpA and has Shell Smash. I don't think much more needs to be said in that regard. I can see that it's not a huge threat to offense, which is by far and away the most prevalent playstyle on ladder since you can RK it really easily or kill it as it sets up, but against stall it breaks every wall out there regardless of typing and stats.
I would run full defense + Bold to better check physical attackers. Also, I wouldn't run pain split over sludge bomb, as that is stab, I would run it over flamethrower though.I must say that Weezing is exceptionally useful in this meta. It's got few counters to it, and if you have it with a Quagsire it helps significantly.
I find that this is a good set up for set up sweepers, as well as a great physical wall.
It's stats get boosted as follows: 95/120/150/115/100/90
Weezing Rocky Helmet/Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP/8Spa/252+Spdef
Calm/Modest Nature
Flamethrower
Will-o-wisp
Sludge Bomb/Pain Split
Clear Smog
Chesto is better, as lum berry is activated from all status effects.Drifblim is pretty fun here. I've been running this to a fair bit of success:
Drifblim @ Lum Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 152 HP / 252 SpA / 104 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Rest
Pretty straightforward, use Drifblim's newfound bulk to nab some calm mind boosts, rest after a few turns to heal yourself completely, activate the lum berry and get the speed boost from Unburden.
For reference, Drifblim's stats after the boost are: 190/120/84/130/94/120
It's also beyond awful and should never be used seriously (bar Voltturn Mayhem, but even there it's easily punished).Slaking with Choice Band Giga Impact is gonna be even more fun to use than it usually is.
First off, as has been stated, chatot has only 121 speed and 122 spa with chatter. Secondly, why, specifically, does that mean it should be banned? Banning is serious, after all, and chatot could do the same in standard with a scarf or vs the many things slower than 91 speed. In addition, Machamp/Machoke can do the same thing with a scarf, and while ghost types can switch in they mostly die to Koff. Does that make Machamp banworthy? I'm not saying it isn't, because I know firsthand how annoying chatot can be, but it isn't the fastest or strongest threat in the metagame by a long shot, and while it's difficult to switch in on it loses to a bunch of things 1v1 and has few switchin opportunities aside from its ground/ghost immunities. What specifically pushes it over the edge for you?I don't think +10 is enough to make cloyster viable especially when so many hazard stackers are available. Crustle for example is quite similiar with spikes and SR, shell smash and high defense and has a higher stats except for defense.
Also can Chatot be banned? Or more specifically can it be restricted? Chatter coming from a 131 speed and 132 special attack is extremely annoying with games being decided whether you hit yourself or not.
As it happens, scarf Machamp is 1 speed slower (still oustpeeding Arceus by 1 point, which is nice because), while machoke has 70 extra speed with a scarf. Not all confuse Ray can be taunted, either- magic bounce does exist, although that has a ton more opportunity cost because you aren't dealing damage at the same time.I actually haven't met a lot of chatot's while playing on showdown and I've always won when playing against them so I don't think it's even close to being a huge threat and as you mentioned 123 Spa is mediocre at best. But the fact remains that Chatot will pretty much always fire off a Chatter.
Again as you mentioned Machole has DP but it's much slower even with as scarf, anyways ghost's are kinda mandatory with all the normal spam. Other mons like Confuse Ray mons(lol) can be taunted. Chatot however always gets a confusion in. Sub+Lefties sets can just wait for you to hit yourself, then roost the damage. If you don't have a faster pokemon at that point of time and no strong priority, then the match depends purely on luck. Which is imo uncompetitive.
To repeat Chatot is in no way broken. It has several counters and it's stats aren't great. But it can end up being uncompetitive especially with t-wave or sticky web support.