np: UU - A New Beginning

[Heysup]

That's the thing, it seems too viable to me. Then again I've just had a few bad cradily and probopass experiences. I'll give it a try.

On another note, this whole thing happened because banning all these pokemon on theory was seen to be a bad idea. Will the same thing happen with uber/ou then? Will obvious ubers like Kyogre, Arceus and Deoxys-A be tested? Will ubers like Ho-oh and mewtwo (I'm serious, he seems like he could be countered by tyranitar and blissey super easily), who might not be broken in OU be tested? Or are they going to keep doing the same suspect process that they're currently doing with Lati@s.

Im not quite sure you have a grip on the things that make a Pokemon BL/Uber. Look at the PR thread to see how they work.

It pretty much says, counters are irrelevent to an extent. If the pokemon fits the Offensive, Defensive, or Support criteria then it will be banned from the metagame.

 

[Kaleidoscope]

Ok.

Anyway, looking at NFEs of OU pokemon (going in alphabetical order of the fully evolved form)

Kadabra: Outclassed by Espeon
Chansey: Very viable, a good special wall.
Shroomish: Lol. Well, it does outspeed parasect and doesn't have any nasty 4x weaknesses, but there are many better pokemon.
Bronzor: Doesn't have the attack to do anything, many better options for support, and it's a mediocre tank, even with the resistances.
Phanpy: Hard to say, but it looks like it's outclassed by sandslash. That HP is surprisingly good though, and it gets some useful moves. Almost definitely not viable though.
Dragonair: Stats just don't seem good enough to me, but worth a try, even if just for the defensive typing.
Diglett: Far too frail. Would only be useful to switch in to a choiced electric move, and there it's outclassed by trapinch.
Dusclops: I'm surprised I haven't seen this one yet in UU. A great tank, though possibly outclassed by spiritomb.
Electabuzz: If only it got motor drive. Decent UU electric pokemon regardless, though raichu seems to be better.
Prinplup: Mediocre water pokemon
Vibrava: Stats are way too low.
Pineco: lol
Haunter: Mostly outclassed by mismagius (unless you really want the poison type or the extra 10 special attack)
Gligar: Has some useful sets, and is unique in typing in UU. Stats are decent enough as well
Magikarp: lol
Hippopotas: Good for sandstorm teams, which can be surprising and hard to beat in UU when supported by pokemon such as cradily and probopass (who are ridiculously strong special walls). Might be able to survive a physical hit and get a Yawn, Sand tomb or other support move in. A contender.
Monferno: Mostly outclassed by blaziken (who it outspeeds lol). Still probably not worth using.
Eevee: This reminds me of when people felt obliged to use it in an eeveelution novelty team.. Glaceon and leafeon make this pokemon not worth using.
Seadra: Many better water pokemon. They gave it crap special defense in GSC because they knew it would evolve and never be considered for battles again.
Riolu: lol
Machoke: Easily revenged killed, but good for confusion hax. Mostly outclassed.
Magneton: Already an analysis
Piloswine: 100 attack and ice shard, with great hp, good defense and passable special defense. It's a contender, especially on hail teams.
Metang: Hard to say. Doesn't look like it can really do anything worthwhile.
Nincada: Good typing, utterly useless due to lack of stats
Porygon 2: Already an analysis, and for good reason
Rhydon: Great pokemon. I'm surprised I haven't seen one in UU; it's a solid pokemon that is especially good in a Hippopotas team.
Shelgon: Good attack/defense and no 4x weakness, but probably doesn't have enough usability to justify a team slot. Might be worth a shot though.
Scyther: Already an analysis, and for good reason
Munchlax: Hmm. Doesn't look half bad. Chansey is a better special wall, obviously, but 85 attack could be quite useful in UU, and its speed would suit a trick room team. Hard to say.
Staryu: Lol
Marshstomp: Outclassed by the other water/grounds
Tentacool: lol
Togetic: I saw someone use one of these. Speed lets it down, but it could be put to some use with serene grace.
Pupitar: Use golem or rhydon
Sneasel: Could be a good sweeper, but is a bit too fragile
Yanma: If only it got BP. Useless.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I think that list should really have Gabite (even though it's evo is uber, not ou).

Gabite: It's . . . not bad, great typing, stats aren't too terrible. I actually got swept by this once (12 turns of sand-hax, 5 in a row once-- no joking I still have the log somewhere).

 

[Legacy Raider]

I'm just waiting for the day someone comes up with a good team based around

Dual Screen Uxie --> Baton Pass Gligar ---> Metang

But on a more serious note, the same strategy is still pretty viable to pass to an Azumarill or Bibarel, especially considering that Gligar has useable 65/105/65 defenses (not too removed from Gliscor's 75/125/75, and with the same great defensive typing). Also, has anyone managed to use Gabite to any success in UU? It does currently have the strongest Outrage in UU, and 90 Atk and 82 Speed aren't unusable by any means. I just think the problem would be that scarfed versions wouldn't hit hard enough, and banded ones would be outsped by too much =/. Plus it's exceedingly frail. Still something cool to look into, though.

EDIT: Chou and I had the exact same thoughts =P

 

[Objection]

By the way, Yanma is not useless. All it needs to do is land Hypnosis just once (which is more than a coin flip's chance) and then it's guaranteed to get two speed boosts since the sleeping pokemon will most likely not be a sleep talker, and then what can outspeed it and stop it from running rampant with Bug Buzz and Air Slash? Steel types can resist both moves ... and that's about it.

 

[Steinhauser]

and then what can outspeed it and stop it from running rampant with Bug Buzz and Air Slash?

Anything with decent SpD can wall it, considering it only has 75 base SpA. Also, anything with a priority attack beats it.

Vibrava was mentioned on that list, but not Trapinch. That thing is really useful. At first it seemed like a gimmick or "fun thing to try" but it has served as a staple on my team for several weeks now. The fact is, there really is no other option for getting rid of Steels in UU, and Trapinch is fairly decent at it. After tweaking, optimizing and damage calc-ing the hell out of it I believe it to be running at peak efficiency, which is about a 70% success rate vs the big two Steels. I wrote up a complete revamp analysis for Trapinch, too.

 

[Objection]

Also, anything with a priority attack beats it.

Priority moves generally tend to be too weak to merit use over their non-priority, more powerful counterparts without either Technician or a choice item. Sucker Punch is perhaps the only exception to this.

 

[Erazor]

Anything with decent SpD can wall it, considering it only has 75 base SpA. Also, anything with a priority attack beats it.

Vibrava was mentioned on that list, but not Trapinch. That thing is really useful. At first it seemed like a gimmick or "fun thing to try" but it has served as a staple on my team for several weeks now. The fact is, there really is no other option for getting rid of Steels in UU, and Trapinch is fairly decent at it. After tweaking, optimizing and damage calc-ing the hell out of it I believe it to be running at peak efficiency, which is about a 70% success rate vs the big two Steels. I wrote up a complete revamp analysis for Trapinch, too.

I can attest to the effectiveness of the said Trapinch, but Registeel's Iron Head still hurts it a lot.

About Yanma, 75 Sp Atk just doesn't cut it in an environment where the special walls either have 150 Sp.Def(Registeel) or insane amounts of HP(Chansey). It's fast, but Azumarill, Honchkrow, Absol, and Ambipom all have priority to beat it.

 

[Steinhauser]

I can attest to the effectiveness of the said Trapinch, but Registeel's Iron Head still hurts it a lot.

It really does, especially with flinch rate. Unfortunately, Trapinch can be EV'd to outspeed Steelix, or to take 2 hits from Registeel's Iron Head, but it can't do both. The melon-headed bug is far, far from perfect.

 

[Erazor]

It really does, especially with flinch rate. Unfortunately, Trapinch can be EV'd to outspeed Steelix, or to take 2 hits from Registeel's Iron Head, but it can't do both. The melon-headed bug is far, far from perfect.

Meh, it depends on your team, I suppose. If you already have Typhlosion/Blaziken to deal with Registeel, then EV it to beat Steelix. Or if you have Steelix covered, EV it to take on Registeel.

lol, 222 posts.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

I'm just waiting for the day someone comes up with a good team based around

Dual Screen Uxie --> Baton Pass Gligar ---> Metang

But on a more serious note, the same strategy is still pretty viable to pass to an Azumarill or Bibarel, especially considering that Gligar has useable 65/105/65 defenses (not too removed from Gliscor's 75/125/75, and with the same great defensive typing). Also, has anyone managed to use Gabite to any success in UU? It does currently have the strongest Outrage in UU, and 90 Atk and 82 Speed aren't unusable by any means. I just think the problem would be that scarfed versions wouldn't hit hard enough, and banded ones would be outsped by too much =/. Plus it's exceedingly frail. Still something cool to look into, though.

EDIT: Chou and I had the exact same thoughts =P

I think that Shelgon has a stronger Outrage than Gabite (actually, I think Shelgon's is as strong as Kingdra's if anybody wants a good comparison). Shelgon's extremely slow though. And talking about Outrage, I thought Altaria's was quite strong, but I've actually discovered it's the same strength as Vibrava's and weaker than Bagon's! Anyway, in NU we'll have to resort to Shelgon, Dargonair, etc. for Dragon-types as I don't think there's any other options. It should be interesting though. I've never been able to use a pure Dragon-type competitively before.

 

[Heysup]

By the way, Yanma is not useless. All it needs to do is land Hypnosis just once (which is more than a coin flip's chance) and then it's guaranteed to get two speed boosts since the sleeping pokemon will most likely not be a sleep talker, and then what can outspeed it and stop it from running rampant with Bug Buzz and Air Slash? Steel types can resist both moves ... and that's about it.

Yanma is very useless.

75 SAtk will do jack shit against anything not weak to it. Its really quite pathetic. If you want a fast Sleeper use Scarf Smeargle/Roserade.

 

[cim]

Yeah, Yanma doesn't exactly scream with potential. 4x SR weak means you _have_ to get Hypnosis in to get fast and you only get one shot, and when you do... then what? Attack with 75 Special Attack?

 

[Objection]

Yanma is very useless.

75 SAtk will do jack shit against anything not weak to it. Its really quite pathetic. If you want a fast Sleeper use Scarf Smeargle/Roserade.

Drop 'scarf' - choice scarf is a waste of an item and anything that needs it to be viable is crap. It comes with the same drawback as choice band/specs but without the power boost. Anyway, the fact is that Smeargle and Roserade need the scarf to become fast sleepers, which Yanma does not.

75 base special attack is enough to 2HKO most frail sweepers, and that coupled with speed boost means frail sweepers cannot counter Yanma. Bulky steel-types, yes, but frail sweepers, no.

 

[Crafty Veteran]

Yanma is a poor choice if you want that sleep inducer. It's a poor choice because of that nasty x4 weakness to SR which is hard because now you need to pack a Rapid Spinner just for your status inducer. Not to mention the fact it's very weak both specially and physically and is set up prone. I highly suggest not using it actually, very poor choice for a team.

 

[Objection]

Yanma is a poor choice if you want that sleep inducer. It's a poor choice because of that nasty x4 weakness to SR which is hard because now you need to pack a Rapid Spinner just for your status inducer. Not to mention the fact it's very weak both specially and physically and is set up prone. I highly suggest not using it actually, very poor choice for a team.

You have to pack a rapid spinner anyway, unless you're running a team of 6 clefable. Also, as I said before, the Air Slash/Bug Buzz combo from base 75 special attack can 2HKO any frail sweepers, so frail sweepers cannot do a thing to Yanma. Basically, Yanma forces you to use bulky attackers and a sleep inducer, regardless of the stealth rock weakness.

 

[Polis4rule]

You have to pack a rapid spinner anyway, unless you're running a team of 6 clefable. Also, as I said before, the Air Slash/Bug Buzz combo from base 75 special attack can 2HKO any frail sweepers, so frail sweepers cannot do a thing to Yanma. Basically, Yanma forces you to use bulky attackers and a sleep inducer, regardless of the stealth rock weakness.

Not every team packs a Rapid Spinner. Some teams just don't need it.

And besides, ANYTHING will generally kill frail sweepers, including priority moves which are used to outspeed fast things. Hypnosis is also useless, especially with the accuracy drop. If you want fast Speed, just use ScarfRade.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

75 base special attack is enough to 2HKO most frail sweepers, and that coupled with speed boost means frail sweepers cannot counter Yanma.

It's too bad then that frail sweepers aren't meant to counter anything. They do their damage by coming in after a kill, sometimes scaring their opponent away to buy a free setup turn.

Also, as I said before, the Air Slash/Bug Buzz combo from base 75 special attack can 2HKO any frail sweepers, so frail sweepers cannot do a thing to Yanma.

The fact that it can only 2HKO those Pokemon just goes to show how pathetic Yanma's offense is. You hit them, they survive, they almost certainly will OHKO back. If it could OHKO the majority of fast frail sweepers it may have had some merit as an anti-offensive team Pokemon, in the same mold as Deoxys-E in the old OU, or Aero in old UU. But 75 base just doesn't cut it, which you've inadvertently shown to be the case yourself.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Yeah, not to mention that Yanmega may be UU in April!

I can see why Yanma could be good, but I can't think of many situations where I'd give up a slot on my team for it. It may be useful in NU, when it begins in April.

 

[wDro]

I'm just waiting for the day someone comes up with a good team based around

Dual Screen Uxie --> Baton Pass Gligar ---> Metang

It's been done when the new UU FIRST STARTED! How would, I, the one who came up with the dual screen strategy, ever miss the opportunity to try this strategy in every tier? (mew + nasty plot in Ubers, anyone?) :evillaugh: Anyway, I didn't like metang so my main recipient is bibarel. Only registeel is capable of surviving bibarel's waterfall. But right now I prefer using ambipom to baton pass nasty plot to special attackers instead. It's because there are too many intimidaters: staraptor, luxray, arcanine, etc. and priorty users: hitmons, ambipom, absol, etc.

 

[Objection]

Not every team packs a Rapid Spinner. Some teams just don't need it.

No team is completely immune to entry hazards. Therefore every team needs a spinner.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

No team is completely immune to entry hazards. Therefore every team needs a spinner.

What is this bullshit?

No team needs a spinner. In fact, unless you're planning on running multiple SR-weak pokes, it's usually detrimental to run a spinner. You've made these ridiculous claims to try and back up the fact that something that has to rely on base 75 SpA and a 60% accurate Hypnosis just to 2KO frail sweepers when Yanma actually has absolutely no potential.

Also, Choice Scarf is a waste of an item? I should have stopped reading from there.

 

[Objection]

What is this bullshit?

No team needs a spinner. In fact, unless you're planning on running multiple SR-weak pokes, it's usually detrimental to run a spinner. You've made these ridiculous claims to try and back up the fact that something that has to rely on base 75 SpA and a 60% accurate Hypnosis just to 2KO frail sweepers when Yanma actually has absolutely no potential.

The bit about teams needing a spinner was not to back up the Yanma claim, but surely losing a chunk of your health every time you switch in is a bad thing, correct? And if this is caused by Stealth Rock, the only way to stop it from happening is with a spinner, correct? Therefore, how can a team not need a spinner, unless it is completely immune to every entry hazard?

Also, Choice Scarf is a waste of an item? I should have stopped reading from there.

Apart from bumping a potential sweeper's crappy speed to a decent standard and being used with Trick, what use does Choice Scarf have?

 

[Polis4rule]

The bit about teams needing a spinner was not to back up the Yanma claim, but surely losing a chunk of your health every time you switch in is a bad thing, correct? And if this is caused by Stealth Rock, the only way to stop it from happening is with a spinner, correct? Therefore, how can a team not need a spinner, unless it is completely immune to every entry hazard?

Same thing could be said about Status. But you don't see every team running a cleric. But not every team needs a spinner; Stealth Rock damage is not as bad as you are making it out to sound. Hell, most of the better teams don't even use a spinner.

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

The bit about teams needing a spinner was not to back up the Yanma claim, but surely losing a chunk of your health every time you switch in is a bad thing, correct? And if this is caused by Stealth Rock, the only way to stop it from happening is with a spinner, correct? Therefore, how can a team not need a spinner, unless it is completely immune to every entry hazard?

You make Stealth Rock seem more detrimental that it seems. Many teams just simply play with it down, limiting the amount of SR weak Pokemon on their team, which is the method I prefer to use. Other teams rely on heavy offense to prevent Stealth Rock from getting down. The teams that use Rapid Spin are forced to select from a select batch of Pokemon, some of which may not necessarily fit certain teams, and risk being stopped almost cold by Spiritomb and Rotom. In the old UU, it was almost impossible to spin with Rotom around. The two most likely candidates to do so were Blastoise and Claydol, which tells you a lot. (Foresight Hitmontop was nonexistant for some reason.) Now, there's the addition of Spiritomb, which doesn't help spinning at all. I would go as far as to call it obsolete, even in all tiers, except on the more defensive of teams.